dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 I am fast becoming a fan of your work. So you have gone from saying you will not go if the product is watered down to accepting two lower standard Brits in place of 'Jonny Foreigner' Now you are also happy to see two races involving these lesset riders rather than just one. Give it a couple of days and I reckon you could be the PLs biggest fan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 All the big clubs like Poole, Wolves, Lynn and Peterborough into a Super League with GP riders The rest drop into a huge PL league. Think your barking up the wrong tree there mate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 So you have gone from saying you will not go if the product is watered down to accepting two lower standard Brits in place of 'Jonny Foreigner' Now you are also happy to see two races involving these lesset riders rather than just one. Give it a couple of days and I reckon you could be the PLs biggest fan! You are clearly reading something that isn't there. I have always been a long standing advocate of pushing British youngsters into the EL. THe Swedish EL is very strong AND they use Swedish youngsters as their 7th member so nothing wrong in adapting a similar work model. The EL model has been watered down considerably over the years and i have still been a fan. However nothing is clearer as far as i am concerned - when we start DISCOURAGING the top boys from racing here then so will my interest in watching. There will never be a time i will watch PL standard racing on a weekly basis. My opinion, my choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 A drop in crowds of 35% will be fine if costs are cut by 50-60%. Also have to factor in significant reduction in admission prices .Crowd figures may drop by 35% but revenue through the gate could drop by significantly more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) ...Martin Vaculik... wasn't interested in the slightest. Actually said that he could never see himself racing in the UK. Doesn't like the tracks. the surfaces and particularly the thought of commuting in and out of the country. You must be living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Foreign riders will choose to ride in Britain instead of Sweden. Absolutely. And what Martin Vaculik is reported as saying here is what I've heard that the likes of Leon Madsen, Patrik Dudek, and many many others on the continent have been saying for a while. There needs to be a reality check on where British Speedway is in World regard. The Polish League is the Premier League, The Swedish League is the "Championship" and the British EL is the Conference League. We really are that far behind, Even countries with only two cities of note, one shale oval between them, and worse climatic conditions, (Latvia) are now producing better riders than what we have. ...as it grows again out of the same pile of manure!!!! One man's muck is another man's brass! just to add there should be 2 reserve races like Sweden , give them more opportunity to earn a few extra £££ and elite teams might be built different then Why not go another step along this route and do what they do in the German Bundesliga, and reserve one place for a 14-16 y.o. so that the junior riders are given a chance? Edited August 25, 2013 by uk martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Why not go another step along this route and do what they do in the German Bundesliga, and reserve one place for a 14-16 y.o. so that the junior riders are given a chance? No, this is not done in the Bundesliga, but is the case in the lower second tier league (DMSB Team Cup) that we have here in Germany. This lower league competition is for German riders only and run as a 4-team tournament. Each team has four riders, three of them 500cc riders (one senior and two under 21s) and one under 16 year old 250cc rider. The 250cc's ride four heats, of course not against teh 500s, but only against their equvalents of the other teams. The same four riders meet each other four times in the 250cc heats, and their points count towards the team's points total. But this is not the Bundesliga. Edited August 25, 2013 by Bavarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Absolutely. And what Martin Vaculik is reported as saying here is what I've heard that the likes of Leon Madsen, Patrik Dudek, and many many others on the continent have been saying for a while. There needs to be a reality check on where British Speedway is in World regard. The Polish League is the Premier League, The Swedish League is the "Championship" and the British EL is the Conference League. We really are that far behind, Even countries with only two cities of note, one shale oval between them, and worse climatic conditions, (Latvia) are now producing better riders than what we have. One man's muck is another man's brass! Why not go another step along this route and do what they do in the German Bundesliga, and reserve one place for a 14-16 y.o. so that the junior riders are given a chance? Actually in team strengths Sweden is the premier league and Poland Championship-and reverse it for crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 No, this is not done in the Bundesliga, but is the case in the lower second tier league (DMSB Team Cup) that we have here in Germany. This lower league competition is for German riders only and run as a 4-team tournament. Each team has four riders, three of them 500cc riders (one senior and two under 21s) and one under 16 year old 250cc rider. The 250cc's ride four heats, of course not against teh 500s, but only against their equvalents of the other teams. The same four riders meet each other four times in the 250cc heats, and their points count towards the team's points total. But this is not the Bundesliga. Ahh, OK, that's fair enough...but it's still a good way to develop the youth, and there's ideas there that can be adapted for over here. At least in Germany there are ideas...more than what comes out of the British system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Instead of pipe dreams think about it laterally. Jon Cook said in the mic a few weeks ago that in conjunction with Wolves and Poole (in other words CVS, and Ford)they are trying to get an expanded league programme next year so that we have more regular meetings next year because one of the fans biggest complaints is not enough meetings. Now, it obviously all has to go before the AGM but Cook, CVS and Ford, whether people like them or not are usually the ones that make things happen. The rest are pretty much in their own worlds and drift along with what the other three do. So thinking on from there, a more regular league programme will mean more EL teams (probably Leicester and Sheffield) but to make it viable it is very likely going to mean a lower points limit (say 38-ish) which in turn will drive down wage costs because their won't be room for combinations of two or three big names in a team. We can assume that to be the case because historically the points limit has been the tool used to control these types of things. There will be a lot of kicking and screaming from some quarters no doubt but it looks like the immediate plan is quantity rather than quality. There is of course a long way to go before the AGM and whatever ideas are being out forward still have to be refined, so we will have to wait and see what final form it all takes, but two things we won't see in the foreseeable future are a high points limit or a single midweek race-night for all clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Actually in team strengths Sweden is the premier league and Poland Championship-and reverse it for crowds. From a "fans" point of view, which is the bigger stage? Where are the bigger "events"? Where would you rather be? And from the "productivity" point of view, which has produced more international success? And next year with the points straightjacket taken off the Polish League, see for how long Sweden remains the strongest in terms of rider strengths, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 From a "fans" point of view, which is the bigger stage? Where are the bigger "events"? Where would you rather be? And from the "productivity" point of view, which has produced more international success? And next year with the points straightjacket taken off the Polish League, see for how long Sweden remains the strongest in terms of rider strengths, yes agree with most of that(I didn`t actually say any different) however with the Extraleague back to 8 teams I`m pretty sure that the straight jacket isn`t being taken off infact I think(and I could be wrong)that`s it`s being re-tightened for 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantherman Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 From my personal point of view I'm not going to complain about any new measures they bring in, as long as its a fair playing field for all teams and it keeps speedway in this country going. I will always support my team whoever rides for them, not to fussed about the top boys riding, you can still see good racing without them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Instead of pipe dreams think about it laterally. Jon Cook said in the mic a few weeks ago that in conjunction with Wolves and Poole (in other words CVS, and Ford)they are trying to get an expanded league programme next year so that we have more regular meetings next year because one of the fans biggest complaints is not enough meetings. Now, it obviously all has to go before the AGM but Cook, CVS and Ford, whether people like them or not are usually the ones that make things happen. The rest are pretty much in their own worlds and drift along with what the other three do. So thinking on from there, a more regular league programme will mean more EL teams (probably Leicester and Sheffield) but to make it viable it is very likely going to mean a lower points limit (say 38-ish) which in turn will drive down wage costs because their won't be room for combinations of two or three big names in a team. We can assume that to be the case because historically the points limit has been the tool used to control these types of things. There will be a lot of kicking and screaming from some quarters no doubt but it looks like the immediate plan is quantity rather than quality. There is of course a long way to go before the AGM and whatever ideas are being out forward still have to be refined, so we will have to wait and see what final form it all takes, but two things we won't see in the foreseeable future are a high points limit or a single midweek race-night for all clubs. I really can't see Sheffield being tempted. Machin has refused time and time again. Ippo maybe, if Sky are still involved in some way, but then what about the likes of Eastie and KL who were the ones that voted for fewer meetings?! Also the top (GP) riders don't want more meetings so they'll either disappear under a lower points limit or maybe go for a shared rider/squad system - if (and its a big if) that can be afforded! Edited August 25, 2013 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dump that clutch Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Speedway has always been a weekly product. ... bloody bring it back how it was... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 I really can't see Sheffield being tempted. Machin has refused time and time again. Ippo maybe, if Sky are still involved in some way, but then what about the likes of Eastie and KL who were the ones that voted for fewer meetings?! Also the top (GP) riders don't want more meetings so they'll either disappear under a lower points limit or maybe go for a shared rider/squad system - if (and its a big if) that can be afforded! Eastbourne and KL would no doubt go for more meetings if the meetings cost less to run. The circle that has to be squared is that clubs have to run more than 14 home meetings per year otherwise people will just get out of the habit of going. They have to be league meetings because challenges and minor trophy matches don't bring the crowds in, although I wouldn't rule out a re-introduction of the KO cup for those who want to compete. If there are more meetings riders costs have to be lowered otherwise clubs will go under, its as simple as that. In the long term people can look at reducing the costs of machinery etc, but in the short term its only the wage bill that can be cut. The sport is not all that rosy on the continent either, and riders can't afford to be as choosy as they were in the past. Some Polish riders, including Gollob don't have a job in Sweden this year and Davey Watts Polish club has gone into liquidation owing the riders money. Losing the GP riders is not an ideal situation by any means but you might well find that a number of almost top riders on a fairly high current average will still need to earn a living over here. As dump that clutch has eloquently put it in the preceding post the immediate problem is how to get more meetings per season. The question of who is going to ride in them comes after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champs99 Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 The only blow to me is that i wouldn't go as often or be interested in supporting a PL standard team. The current so called Elite League is no better than a second rate league anyway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 The current so called Elite League is no better than a second rate league anyway Second rate to want league in the uk ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 The current so called Elite League is no better than a second rate league anyway Which is ten times superior to the PL anyway. For rider quality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 Which is ten times superior to the PL anyway. For rider quality. So it's rider quality over quality racing for you then??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 So it's rider quality over quality racing for you then??? So do most people otherwise if the Pl racing was better (and that open to debate )the crowds would massive rather that the small numbers who watch it now . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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