Berwick 2014?

[YAMYAMBANDIT]

So you've moved away from the "winning" tack now.

You have also moved away from the "entertainment" line.

 

Interestingly - curiously - you now seem to be an advocate of the "gate and go".

 

A classic example of why the current promotion will never win against your point of view.

You don't really know what you want: do you?

Scott, why can you not accept different people have differing opinions on speedway, without getting personal. It appears you believe everything is O.K. as it is, others do not. Everyone needs to be able to step back and look at themselves, that includes our promotion. As you have said, they have achieved many good things at Shielfield Park, some important like the fence, others of less importance like catering. Not only at Berwick, crowds have fallen drastically, there has to be a reason, my belief is at Berwick we have settled into a safe track with processional racing and the fans are not being entertained, so are not willing to hand over their hard earned cash if in their opinion are not getting value for money. Priority for 2014 must be track preperation, as that is the biggest complaint I get on a daily basis, followed by the team set up, and it's effectiveness to entertain the paying public. It is no use preaching to the die-hards, people like myself will be there, it is really important to re-engage with those fans that no longer attend, also the reasons they no longer attend. The more constructive the arguament, the more likely a concensus can be found, and more likely speedway at Berwick will continue.

[bigeddiechek]

Scott, why can you not accept different people have differing opinions on speedway, without getting personal. It appears you believe everything is O.K. as it is, others do not. Everyone needs to be able to step back and look at themselves, that includes our promotion. As you have said, they have achieved many good things at Shielfield Park, some important like the fence, others of less importance like catering. Not only at Berwick, crowds have fallen drastically, there has to be a reason, my belief is at Berwick we have settled into a safe track with processional racing and the fans are not being entertained, so are not willing to hand over their hard earned cash if in their opinion are not getting value for money. Priority for 2014 must be track preperation, as that is the biggest complaint I get on a daily basis, followed by the team set up, and it's effectiveness to entertain the paying public. It is no use preaching to the die-hards, people like myself will be there, it is really important to re-engage with those fans that no longer attend, also the reasons they no longer attend. The more constructive the arguament, the more likely a concensus can be found, and more likely speedway at Berwick will continue.

 

Taffy, I am not getting personal.

I am pointing out that Robin's arguments are often contradictory.

 

Of course it is essential that more fans are attracted to the sport all through the country.

The problem is that while soi disant fans stay away, the pot to improve the product shrinks, and it becomes a vicious circle.

 

If the fans believe that they are the ones who make the sport possible, then it must follow that they are the ones who can make it impossible.

 

The Sky meeting brought a few new faces along who have stuck, so it cannot be that bad.

 

One of them is constantly boggled by people talking about the track and gets fed up with it.

He wouldn't go to a rugby or football match and talk about the pitch every week.

 

Another has been dragged in to the rut of complaining about the track every week, but has no clue why.

 

The mindset in speedway is probably the biggest danger to the sport, not specifically fans either.

 

I'm clear I am in the minority that I just like to go along to the speedway and enjoy it. As simple as that.

So, I guess that the die-hards need to be pleased: but, many of the the die-hards seem to be unpleaseable.

[Fromafar]

 

 

Taffy, I am not getting personal.

I am pointing out that Robin's arguments are often contradictory.

 

Of course it is essential that more fans are attracted to the sport all through the country.

The problem is that while soi disant fans stay away, the pot to improve the product shrinks, and it becomes a vicious circle.

 

If the fans believe that they are the ones who make the sport possible, then it must follow that they are the ones who can make it impossible.

 

The Sky meeting brought a few new faces along who have stuck, so it cannot be that bad.

 

One of them is constantly boggled by people talking about the track and gets fed up with it.

He wouldn't go to a rugby or football match and talk about the pitch every week.

 

Another has been dragged in to the rut of complaining about the track every week, but has no clue why.

 

The mindset in speedway is probably the biggest danger to the sport, not specifically fans either.

 

I'm clear I am in the minority that I just like to go along to the speedway and enjoy it. As simple as that.

So, I guess that the die-hards need to be pleased: but, many of the the die-hards seem to be unpleaseable.

Unfortunately you are in the minority ,many have just deserted for the reasons being mentioned .how you can use a Rugby or Football Pitch as an example is beyond me I am afraid.

[wjm]

I'm clear I am in the minority that I just like to go along to the speedway and enjoy it. As simple as that.

 

Don't know if that puts you in a minority to be fair mate.

 

Out of those who attend over the course of a season how many feel the need to voice their concerns on forums and social media 4 or 5?

 

Given the numbers who attend the shop can only imaginable an additional 2 or 3 at best who aren't happy but aren't internet users.

 

Talking a pretty small percentage.

 

Despite what you read on here (and it easy to think it is many, but it's not its just the same faces and same recycled stuff week in week out ) it does seem the majority are actually pretty happy.

 

Be it the die hards who travel up and down the country and are there every week, people who attend the glam meetings or the people who make it when they can.

 

The "problems" (if that's how some choose to pitch them) are country wide and deep rooted.

 

There are number of reasons people don't attend speedway in the numbers they used to, it is beyond simplistic to say "it's down to the track"

 

Irrespective of what is written on here the sport actually thrives in a town and catchment area like Berwick.

 

Clearly some (4 or 5) are of the opinion that it doesn't, and more power to their elbow for having an "opinion" but when that opinion isn't shared by the majority, there must be a reason why not? What ever could that reason be?

 

 

Re the team.

 

I would have Alden back in a heart beat, at worst he will hold his average, you do feel though that it will click one year and he will be a 9 point man.

Edited October 4, 2013 by wjm

[bigeddiechek]

Unfortunately you are in the minority ,many have just deserted for the reasons being mentioned .how you can use a Rugby or Football Pitch as an example is beyond me I am afraid.

It's the surface that the sport takes place on.

You get some horrific pitches, usually due to weather, lots of OK pitches.

 

It's not the centre point of discussion at the match, though.

 

Maybe all that is left to the sport are "expert" fans, with very few who go to it because it is something different that they just enjoy.

 

After all, there is nothing more wearing when you go along for a bit of fun and enjoyment, to get a load of greeting in your lug: it soon takes the fun away.

 

However, one just needs to read almost every thread on here to get the picture...

 

Don't know if that puts you in a minority to be fair mate.

 

Out of those who attend over the course of a season how many feel the need to voice their concerns on forums and social media 4 or 5?

 

Given the numbers who attend the shop can only imaginable an additional 2 or 3 at best who aren't happy but aren't internet users.

 

Talking a pretty small percentage.

 

Despite what you read on here (and it easy to think it is many, but it's not its just the same faces and same recycled stuff week in week out ) it does seem the majority are actually pretty happy.

 

Be it the die hards who travel up and down the country and are there every week, people who attend the glam meetings or the people who make it when they can.

 

The "problems" (if that's how some choose to pitch them) are country wide and deep rooted.

 

There are number of reasons people don't attend speedway in the numbers they used to, it is beyond simplistic to say "it's down to the track"

 

Irrespective of what is written on here the sport actually thrives in a town and catchment area like Berwick.

 

Clearly some (4 or 5) are of the opinion that it doesn't, and more power to their elbow for having an "opinion" but when that opinion isn't shared by the majority, there must be a reason why not? What ever could that reason be?

 

 

Re the team.

 

I would have Alden back in a heart beat, at worst he will hold his average, you do feel though that it will click one year and he will be a 9 point man.

 

You're right, the problems are far less simplistic in the sport in general.

 

You're also right about speedway thriving in Berwick.

Compare it to much larger sports such as rugby and football, and the crowds are even more impressive.

 

Most of the people I know do go an enjoy the night.

Some even take the P out of the track saga comments, a few get a bit fed up.

 

You're also right, there are less than a handful who actually find it so disappointing that they come on here to voice their discontent.

 

The good old Internet forum is a very interesting psychological profiling tool!

[Fromafar]

 

It's the surface that the sport takes place on.

You get some horrific pitches, usually due to weather, lots of OK pitches.

 

It's not the centre point of discussion at the match, though.

 

Maybe all that is left to the sport are "expert" fans, with very few who go to it because it is something different that they just enjoy.

 

After all, there is nothing more wearing when you go along for a bit of fun and enjoyment, to get a load of greeting in your lug: it soon takes the fun away.

 

However, one just needs to read almost every thread on here to get the picture...

 

 

 

You're right, the problems are far less simplistic in the sport in general.

 

You're also right about speedway thriving in Berwick.

Compare it to much larger sports such as rugby and football, and the crowds are even more impressive.

 

Most of the people I know do go an enjoy the night.

Some even take the P out of the track saga comments, a few get a bit fed up.

 

You're also right, there are less than a handful who actually find it so disappointing that they come on here to voice their discontent.

 

The good old Internet forum is a very interesting psychological profiling tool!

I commented to your good self that the crowd attending Ricky's. Meeting last Sat used to be a normal attendance at Berwick a few years ago,given that ,I am pleased to know that the sport is still thriving in the area giving the crowd levels I have witnessed this season.Once again you are comparing to other sports in the area which is irrelevant to the subject being discussed.It is only last winter that the plugged was going to be pulled if suitable Sponsership could not be found.Speedway in UK is not thriving at any track IMO Edited October 4, 2013 by Fromafar

[bigeddiechek]

I commented to your good self that the crowd attending Ricky's. Meeting last Sat used to be a normal attendance at Berwick a few years ago,given that ,I am pleased to know that the sport is still thriving in the area giving the crowd levels I have witnessed this season.Once again you are comparing to other sports in the area which is irrelevant to the subject being discussed.It is only last winter that the plugged was going to be pulled if suitable Sponsership could not be found.Speedway in UK is not thriving at any track IMO

 

Yes, but you don't go on and on about it like some others do. We chat about a number of things: and agree on most!

 

I don't, however, agree that the comparison to other sports is irrelevant.

It is a barometer of how sport is supported in the area. It clearly is not too high up people's list.

 

In terms of what crowds used to be, it's dangerous to use that as a comparison because it is largely a reflection of the current times.

As are crowd levels today. We discussed this when talking about Once a Jolly Swagman.

 

I'm not sure that a lot of the changes the enthusiasts want would make in difference in attracting new fans, although it might bring a few back.

 

One thing that is for sure, people constantly picking fault will only have one effect.

Fortunately, the majority of speedway folk I know don't even look on here.

[Fromafar]

 

 

Yes, but you don't go on and on about it like some others do. We chat about a number of things: and agree on most!

 

I don't, however, agree that the comparison to other sports is irrelevant.

It is a barometer of how sport is supported in the area. It clearly is not too high up people's list.

 

In terms of what crowds used to be, it's dangerous to use that as a comparison because it is largely a reflection of the current times.

As are crowd levels today. We discussed this when talking about Once a Jolly Swagman.

 

I'm not sure that a lot of the changes the enthusiasts want would make in difference in attracting new fans, although it might bring a few back.

 

One thing that is for sure, people constantly picking fault will only have one effect.

Fortunately, the majority of speedway folk I know don't even look on here.

Crowds getting smaller and Wages and expenses getting bigger don't suggest a thriving business.like you say though 4or 5 people expressing negative views won't make any difference overall because you reckon the majority of fans don't even look on here,after all it is a forum where fans can express their views,Good to hear that everything is rosy in the BigEddie world.

[bigeddiechek]

Crowds getting smaller and Wages and expenses getting bigger don't suggest a thriving business.like you say though 4or 5 people expressing negative views won't make any difference overall because you reckon the majority of fans don't even look on here,after all it is a forum where fans can express their views,Good to hear that everything is rosy in the BigEddie world.

 

Now, I didn't say it was a thriving business.

It is outperforming other sports in the area in terms of fan-base.

 

I'm not saying everything is rosy, but greetin' faces do have an impact; not necessary online either.

 

I still don't quite get this concept that a forum is a heavily visited place for people to have their opinions.

Most people still do this in real life.

[Fromafar]

 

 

Now, I didn't say it was a thriving business.

It is outperforming other sports in the area in terms of fan-base.

 

I'm not saying everything is rosy, but greetin' faces do have an impact; not necessary online either.

 

I still don't quite get this concept that a forum is a heavily visited place for people to have their opinions.

Most people still do this in real life.

Fine

[screm]

Its all about the 15hts of on track action for me,and always will be.Ive never once come out of Shielfield Park on a saturday night thinking how great the pies were,how great the the music was or how great the presentation was,all important parts in their place no doubt,but not the be all and end all I think not,and that brings the thorny subject of track prep,get that wrong and we end up with some of the meetings we`ve had this season,though its also fair to say that when the tracks been prepared well it tends to lead to an excellent meeting.

[bigeddiechek]

Fine

Thank you.

 

Its all about the 15hts of on track action for me,and always will be.Ive never once come out of Shielfield Park on a saturday night thinking how great the pies were,how great the the music was or how great the presentation was,all important parts in their place no doubt,but not the be all and end all I think not,and that brings the thorny subject of track prep,get that wrong and we end up with some of the meetings we`ve had this season,though its also fair to say that when the tracks been prepared well it tends to lead to an excellent meeting.

To use Taffy's analogy, you can bet a cinema with no sweetmeats, popcorn, iced cream, or comfortable toilets would be unpopular.

 

Still, a crap film is a crap film, no matter the cinema.

[screm]

Thank you.

 

 

To use Taffy's analogy, you can bet a cinema with no sweetmeats, popcorn, iced cream, or comfortable toilets would be unpopular.

 

Still, a crap film is a crap film, no matter the cinema.

 

Which proves my point that everything around the periphery is supportive of the main event.

 

Crowds getting smaller and Wages and expenses getting bigger don't suggest a thriving business.like you say though 4or 5 people expressing negative views won't make any difference overall because you reckon the majority of fans don't even look on here,after all it is a forum where fans can express their views,Good to hear that everything is rosy in the BigEddie world.

 

I agree with Bigeddie that IMO the vast majority of Berwick fans and maybe even speedway fans in general dont come on here.I d say there was a sizeable few that dont even have internet connection.

[Goodiepatchie]

Seems the decision has been made to keep points limit at 42,5 again for 2014. So now you can work out your teams.

and when were you at the promoters conference which if am correct isn't until November so how would you know about points limits when they will not have been set in stone yet

[screm]

and when were you at the promoters conference which if am correct isn't until November so how would you know about points limits when they will not have been set in stone yet

 

You dont honestly believe do you that everythings decided at the anual promoters conference.

[Goodiepatchie]

 

 

You dont honestly believe do you that everythings decided at the anual promoters conference.

no not at all but using that as point of reference the points limit won't be what taffy says as it probably will have changed a thousand times by November

[Robinh88]

 

 

So you've moved away from the "winning" tack now.

You have also moved away from the "entertainment" line.

 

Interestingly - curiously - you now seem to be an advocate of the "gate and go".

 

A classic example of why the current promotion will never win against your point of view.

You don't really know what you want: do you?

 

That is not the case at all...

 

Note the example I used 2008 we did not win a trophy? but it was a enjoyable season because we were competitive. Now I am not going to go through all of the seasons since 2009 but apart from the 4 week period at the end of 2010 we haven't put a winning team together. I don't know if you remember while you were stood in the executive terracing with your bagel when we destroyed a strong Newcastle side. Heat One 5-1 Rempala/Rymel and it didn't stop there, we pummelled them.

 

That was a winning side possibly put together 4 months too late. Would it have balanced the books over a season knocking 55-60 points every week, womn a trophy? I don't know... Either way bar those 4 weeks Berwick Bandits are doing about enough to win home meetings by 4-8 points. Bar Glasgow (a) where we won by 2, we've been been poor on the road, but less points paid out... maybe that has helped us keep in buisness

 

Contrary to your post Scott I have seen some good meetings at Shielfield Park this season. While people say I have nothing positive or constructive to say. Well I've posted I've enjoyed 5 or 6 meetings at Berwick so that is a definite plus. Now had Berwick had a all conquering 7 would those meetings have been as entertaining? who knows?

 

Berwick like Exeter will never have the best racing because the way the track is shaped. Nor do the UK have financial resource or number of personnel to match the tracks of rival Speedway nations.In a ideal world we would shave the corners in a tad, but we have what we have I don't think the racing would be any better in the EL, it simply just is

 

Here's a question for you though and to other posters.... 7 Christian Henry's or 7 Lee Complin's, which team would fair better? If you make the start at Berwick, get on the line you wont get beaten, if you miss the start at Berwick irrespective of how good you are (I beliveve Pawlicki is that good), you will struggle to pass. Me and Emilali often joke about this but next season if Newcastle sign any rider in the world say and Heat One next year Bellego makes a flyer I honestly believe any rider in the world isn't catching Bellego.

 

We all go to Speedway for differing reasons.. you know when you have a team you want to go and watch, you just get that feeling. Just like when your racing against a team your really looking forward too racing and some maybe not so. We are not tracking 7 man teams at the moment, its not that we are signing bad riders but we are expecting good riders to give great performances week in week out while covering for blokes like Barrett and Aspegren (when he is not playing crazy golf). Blokes like Doyle, Cook Morris/Pijper can cover, we did not have those sort of riders in 2013

 

It will be up to Speedway maestro's Rae and Anderson to formulate Berwick's plan of attack (fills me with confidence). I agree fully with Tourettes plan of attack for 2014. But as I say Scott we all go for differing reasons, each to there own.....

Edited October 4, 2013 by RobinH88

[bigeddiechek]

One thing I agree with is that there is nothing worse than an under-performing rider, and we've had too many of them in recent years.

 

For me, that is the essential requirement for next season.

 

Agree on this at least?

[Fromafar]

 

 

Which proves my point that everything around the periphery is supportive of the main event.

 

 

 

I agree with Bigeddie that IMO the vast majority of Berwick fans and maybe even speedway fans in general dont come on here.I d say there was a sizeable few that dont even have internet connection.

Yer some guy , you can tell fans that don't have an internet connection !!!! The crowds aren't that small are they.(majority)

[Robinh88]

But my question would be why is this continuously happening?