Alternative/ Pirate League

[Vince]

I used to work for Jimmy Squibb and he told me that when the Jawa came in it was cheaper to run than a JAP because it only needed servicing every 6 meetings. If I remember correctly he used well known 'tuner' of the time, Mike Erskine although he would sometimes take the head off and lap the valves in himself.

 

I can believe that about Phil Crump, presumably his engine would have been built by Neil Street in those days. Neil was an exceptional engineer and if anybody could put an engine together to last a season it would have been him. The most reliable engine that I have heard tale of was the 897 Jawa which was a 4 valve upright.

 

Certainly my 2v Jawa wouldn't have lasted an entire season and it only went at half the speed of Phil Crump's. However it was also serviced by a first year apprentice truck fitter so didn't really have a chance of reliability

Edited August 23, 2013 by Vince

[iris123]

Think the thing to remember here is that the previous breakaway had nothing to do with safety regs.To consider bearking away and to consider supporting such a break away because they can't afford to keep up with the safety standards required is getting into unacceptable territory.In all sport and all industry standards have to be met or you go to the wall.Like someone else said,i think the FIM have given notice of standards required

[TwoMinuteWarning]

I believe that Sweden already has a breakaway group?

 

Svensk Speedway was due to operate on a couple of non-air fence tracks this season, independent of SVEMO, at Orebro and Karlstad.

 

There is a Karlstad website at http://speedwayforalla.se/

(translation at http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fspeedwayforalla.se%2F&act=url)

[The Third Man]

Think the thing to remember here is that the previous breakaway had nothing to do with safety regs.To consider bearking away and to consider supporting such a break away because they can't afford to keep up with the safety standards required is getting into unacceptable territory.In all sport and all industry standards have to be met or you go to the wall.Like someone else said,i think the FIM have given notice of standards required

 

if the riders are so bothered about air fences why have they ridden this year, and all previous PL seasons without air fences?

 

and why do EL riders accept guest and open meeting bookings on at tracks that dont have air fences?

 

why was there a british semi final held at Sheffield for the last few seasons without an air fence?

 

there must be a chance of something happening as i am sure that all the PL & NL tracks will not be in a position to buy an air fence, are they all going to close without a fight?

 

lets wait and see

[The White Knight]

if the riders are so bothered about air fences why have they ridden this year, and all previous PL seasons without air fences?

 

and why do EL riders accept guest and open meeting bookings on at tracks that dont have air fences?

 

why was there a british semi final held at Sheffield for the last few seasons without an air fence?

 

there must be a chance of something happening as i am sure that all the PL & NL tracks will not be in a position to buy an air fence, are they all going to close without a fight?

 

lets wait and see

 

You CANNOT compromise on Rider Safety.

[The Third Man]

You CANNOT compromise on Rider Safety.

 

then why do the riders do it?

[Vince]

You CANNOT compromise on Rider Safety.

 

I can understand why you would say that but clearly all safety is a compromise. If we are really going to put safety at the top of Speedway's agenda then we will see riders on mopeds, with brakes, sweep the dirt off the track and put rubber matting down.

 

Clearly that's nonsense but Speedway is a very dangerous sport and there are huge compromises made with rider safety as there are with any dangerous sport.

 

There seems no doubt that air fences help riders when the crash, however has anybody looked into the 'comfort factor' where riders feel safer so take more chances with an air fence? We keep reading that more riders have been injured this season than ever before (I'm not at all sure that's true) and there are more air fences than ever before so how does that stack up? There are still major issues with the installation of air fences and what is behind them if riders go underneath to be resolved. I have Rye House and Kings Lynn left to race at this season, if I go hard into the fence I would much rather it be the wooden one at Rye than the air fence at Lynn, no criticism of Kings Lynn where they have made it as safe as possible but my opinion is that Rye is about the best fence I know. As ever with these things it isn't straight forward and if clubs are faced with closure because of an air fence can the sport just allow that to happen?

[iris123]

It all matters not one iota.The ruling body has ruled that airfences must be used and they won't be backing down.So.......any track that can't afford one now will do what?Join some breakaway little group that will get the riders with little ambition with probably n foreign riders or riders going nowhere.So what do you end up with?A small group or tracks and probably a very small group of riders.Could be the ideal thing for the guys who wanted their own little GP sort of series.So tracks get a few meetings a year and can't attract many riders and won't attract many fans and will never be able to afford an airfence as they will have closed before that ever comes about.It isn't like a bit of a disagreement about some rules that can be discussed and a mutual conclusion made and everything is fine again.Personally i could never support such a track as if a bad accident occured every person who gave support to that track is supporting substandard safety measures and is partly to blame.Without fans and sponsors(if sponsors could even think of touching such a hot tomato)riders wouldn't be out on tracks that don't have the required safety standards

 

TBH the simple way is to do what they have done in germany and share an airfence between a few tracks who couldn't afford one themselves.Anything else is really just sticking two fingers up at safety

[Ghostwalker]

Nope. Who would insure the riders?

 

In Sweden we have a sort of a "pirate" organization that are not affiliated with Svemo or FIM.

The call themselves "Folk speedway" and their idea is that everyone should be allowed to race without the needs of a license

or bikes that full fills the latest noise and safety regulations. There is only two Folk Speedway clubs but they also don't use air fences

but rather want "something else".

 

In Sweden we were in the same position a number of years ago when it became mandatory with air fences for all tracks that wanted to hose competitive racing.

I think 2 or 3 teams pulled out due to that they couldn't afford to buy air fences. But the rest of the teams managed to acquire air fences on time.

[The Third Man]

Personally i could never support such a track as if a bad accident occured every person who gave support to that track is supporting substandard safety measures and is partly to blame.

 

so you coulnt support the track at Stoke despite the air fence (Luke Priest), or other tracks where the air fence have not stopped riders getting injured?

 

also how many incidents of fist bend bunching do you get in the GPs with air fences compared to tracks without fences? there are more of these in the average GP than there are at Sheffield on a Thursday night, and the GP riders presumably have more skill than the PL riders at sheffield

 

there are more

[iris123]

so you coulnt support the track at Stoke despite the air fence (Luke Priest), or other tracks where the air fence have not stopped riders getting injured?

 

also how many incidents of fist bend bunching do you get in the GPs with air fences compared to tracks without fences? there are more of these in the average GP than there are at Sheffield on a Thursday night, and the GP riders presumably have more skill than the PL riders at sheffield

 

there are more

 

What i was saying(i thought quite clearly) is it would be unjustifiable to support tracks who didn't keep up to the required safety standards.There will always be accidents of course even at tracks that have the best safety standards.But to support tracks that give less than the required standard is unacceptable in my eyes.

 

There are numerous reasons i would support pirate tracks for breaking away from the main body,but because they can't keep up with safety is one i certainly wouldn't support.Each to their own and it is obviously an issue that won't bother some

Edited August 28, 2013 by iris123

[Vince]

That could be the case if there was absolutely no dispute about the safety measure involved, however given some of the injuries to riders that have gone underneath fences there are still issues to be resolved about where they are definitley the best option.

[The Third Man]

Have to agree, everybody thinks that air fences are the graet thing with no investigation as to how many injuries they prevent, how many they cause, how many riders take extra risks because of them etc.

 

not saying i dont suppoprt them, but the only major injury at Sheffield this year would not have been prevented by an air fence

[Guest]

Alternative/ Pirate League

 

Hasn't the thread gone ever so slightly off topic...?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Guest

[iris123]

Like i said it is up to the individual to decide whether they can support such a track.Just as some people do go and support unlicenced boxing or other sports that don't meet the safety standards of the governing body.Obviously in some cases the extra danger adds something.What i will say is if there really is a question mark about air fences why is it only a couple of fringe tracks in Sweden and a few of the lesser tracks in GB that are going their own way?Why didn't any of the well run/supported tracks in Europe also take a stand?

[The White Knight]

Alternative/ Pirate League

 

Hasn't the tread gone ever so slightly off topic...?

 

Off TRACK I'd have said.

[iris123]

As far as i can see the thread has not strayed from the topic in question,but it is quite ironic that gustix comes in with the statement seeing as he seems to think every thread requires mention of watching speedway in the 1940s!!!!

[albyhere]

As seems certain now, I believe, there will be some tracks who are going down with the expense of these air fences. I have what may seem to be a silly question ( I'm known for them .) Given that air fences are not really that safe ( riders can get hurt still bouncing off them , and can go under or over them ) why does it HAVE to be air fences ?

 

is there really no alternative ? Has anyone tried alternatives ? Has anyone offered them ?

 

Yes it's comparatively high tech, but has anyone tried old tyres ? They're still used in go karts. Or hay bales, packed looser ? A combination of the two ? Or similar ? Rubber or foam fillings would be better than air. Are air fences the be all and end all, especially when they're so bloody expensive they can shut your local track down ? Surely some lateral thinking could save the day here, and not just rely on ' technology .'

 

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I'd have politicians lined up all round the track in Mr Blobby suits ( especially Labour ones. ) At least if a rider hits one he might still get hurt but he'd be doing the country some good. Just a thought .

[Long Eye]

There's the foam fences that Berwick and Kings Lynn use.

[Humphrey Appleby]

They're still used in go karts.

 

Speedway air fences are starting to be used in karting now...