Vince Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 It would seem that there are more than a couple of tracks who are going to really struggle to be able to install air fences in time for next season. Given that will be a condition of entry to league racing under the FIM, ACU, BSPA are we likely to see a group of tracks running under a different authorising body next year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Antebellum Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Nope. Who would insure the riders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Nope. Who would insure the riders? If it happened they would not be able to compete internationally. It's not like the days when Mike Parker's Provincial League happened in the early 1960s. Most riders then were veterans making come-backs or just basic juniors. As the PL grew stronger it came back into the fold eventually. Edited August 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 And i was thinking that this was another Anti-Poole thread! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) As a Heathens fan from the Provincial Leagues days, well 1959, I can see the day when a pirate league will resurface with teams who either can't afford an air fence or teams that cannot afford the rates of pay in either the Elite or Premier League. So what if it is filled with older, experienced or inexperienced riders, the whole structure of speedway was saved by Mr Parker & Mr Bridgett, et al back in the day with the reopening/closing of PL tracks between 1959 & 1964. Without the Provincial/Pirate League we would have not got the BL in 1965 or the 4 league structure (EL, PL, NL & MDL) we have today! Edited August 19, 2013 by berniev123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted August 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Insurance wouldn't be an issue, any of the current motorcycle federations are already set up to provide cover. International meetings not a problem either. It was decided in court many years ago that riders could hold licences in different affiliations so they could take out an ACU licence in addition to whatever licence any breakaway league required if they wanted to compete internationally. I really can imagine something along the lines of the current NL being run without the involvement of the ACU/ BSPA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) If it happened they would not be able to compete internationally. It's not like the days when Mike Parker's Provincial League happened in the early 1960s. Most riders then were veterans making come-backs or just basic juniors. As the PL grew stronger it came back into the fold eventually. As a Heathens from the Provincial Leagues days, well 1959, I can see the day when a pirate league will resurface with teams who either can't afford an air fence or teams that cannot afford the rates of pay in either the Elite or Premier League. So what if it is filled with older, experienced or inexperienced riders, the whole structure of speedway was saved by Mr Parker & Mr Bridgett, et al back in the day with the reopening/closing of PL tracks between 1959 & 1964. Without the Provincial/Pirate League we would have not got the BL in 1965 or the 4 league structure (EL, PL, NL & MDL) we have today! I was in no way criticising the Provincial League started by Mike Parker. I throughly enjoyed it from the start - especially when I could again see old favourites back on the track again. And I do also regard the PL as the start of that completely unexpected revival for speedway which was possibly at death's door in the late 1950s. Edited August 19, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 As a Heathens fan from the Provincial Leagues days, well 1959, I can see the day when a pirate league will resurface with teams who either can't afford an air fence or teams that cannot afford the rates of pay in either the Elite or Premier League. So what if it is filled with older, experienced or inexperienced riders, the whole structure of speedway was saved by Mr Parker & Mr Bridgett, et al back in the day with the reopening/closing of PL tracks between 1959 & 1964. Without the Provincial/Pirate League we would have not got the BL in 1965 or the 4 league structure (EL, PL, NL & MDL) we have today! :shock: NOT at Sunderland it wasn't. - they gave us a Track for NINE Meetings and then snatched it away from us. :mad: But am I bitter? TOO BLOODY RIGHT I AM!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 :shock: NOT at Sunderland it wasn't. - they gave us a Track for NINE Meetings and then snatched it away from us. :mad: But am I bitter? TOO BLOODY RIGHT I AM!!! I don't want to be harsh about this - but what sort of attendances were Sunderland getting at this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Penultimate Meeting 8,000 - source The 'Sunderland Echo'. What I believe to be the true story can be found on the following Link: http://www.sunderlandspeedway.co.uk/stats/1964/1964_Season.html Hope this shows you where I am coming from Gustix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 I really can imagine something along the lines of the current NL being run without the involvement of the ACU/ BSPA. Could get awkward when cusp NL/PL riders have a clash. Or if PL promoters agree not to use riders riding in the alternative NL. Might work for "professional" NL riders but wont work for riders on the way up as I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 :shock: NOT at Sunderland it wasn't. - they gave us a Track for NINE Meetings and then snatched it away from us. :mad: But am I bitter? TOO BLOODY RIGHT I AM!!! If I am correct, the Provincial League Saints lasted just a few meetings as you say and the team was scattered to other tracks by Parker or Bridgett but that was not the end at Bolden. The team had a few more attempts at league racing in the 1970's as Stars or Gladiators. Whoever promoted them then had the same luck as they had in the Provincial League. Eventually shut by their respective promoters for whatever reasons they had, so you can't directly attribute the 1960's closure as the end of Sunderland Speedway. Bolden is a great dog stadium and it would make a first class Speedway stadium, but it has never supported league speedway for a sustained length of time. I know it hurts as you are a Sunderland fan as much as I am a Cradley/Dudley Heathens fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 If I am correct, the Provincial League Saints lasted just a few meetings as you say and the team was scattered to other tracks by Parker or Bridgett but that was not the end at Bolden. The team had a few more attempts at league racing in the 1970's as Stars or Gladiators. Whoever promoted them then had the same luck as they had in the Provincial League. Eventually shut by their respective promoters for whatever reasons they had, so you can't directly attribute the 1960's closure as the end of Sunderland Speedway. Bolden is a great dog stadium and it would make a first class Speedway stadium, but it has never supported league speedway for a sustained length of time. I know it hurts as you are a Sunderland fan as much as I am a Cradley/Dudley Heathens fan. If you study our Website you will see that Sunderland never really got a fair rub of the green from Speedway Promoters. We closed early in 1964 in order that Parker and Bridgett could reinforce their main Teams with our ('Saints') Riders. Allied Promotions Sold the Sunderland License when Speedway was a going concern and successive Promotions ran them in to the ground. I am grateful for a lifetime of supporting Speedway - but crucially - as a Sunderland ' Saints', 'Stars' and 'Gladiators' Supporter I/we at Sunderland have been VERY BADLY served by Speedway Promoters. Perhaps if Allied Promotions had kept Sunderland under their banner instead of selling our License on - I would not feel as I do. I just believe that Speedway only played with Sunderland and we were never really given a fair chance to succeed. To make the point, we were given a very weak Team when we opened in 1971 and finished bottom of the League, hardly a Team to encourage people to attend. You NEED at least a chance of success when you open a new venue, WE never got that. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 If you study our Website you will see that Sunderland never really got a fair rub of the green from Speedway Promoters. We closed early in 1964 in order that Parker and Bridgett could reinforce their main Teams with our ('Saints') Riders. Allied Promotions Sold the Sunderland License when Speedway was a going concern and successive Promotions ran them in to the ground. I am grateful for a lifetime of supporting Speedway - but crucially - as a Sunderland ' Saints', 'Stars' and 'Gladiators' Supporter I/we at Sunderland have been VERY BADLY served by Speedway Promoters. Perhaps if Allied Promotions had kept Sunderland under their banner instead of selling our License on - I would not feel as I do. I just believe that Speedway only played with Sunderland and w e were never really given a fair chance to succeed. To make the point, we were given a very weak Team when we opened in 1971 and finished bottom of the League, hardly a Team to encourage people to attend. You NEED at least a chance of success when you open a new venue, WE never got that. :sad: We had a similar chance at Dudley Wood in 1959/60, look it up yourself! History states that we had a rubbish team from 1965 to when Dan Mc Cormick took over! United we became then back to Heathens then the glory years.........even to today as Dudley, but the story was glory and many good memories and the rest is history!!!! Try and get someone to track share at Brough Park, Newcastle and see what happens or get a promoter to talk to the Bolden owners.......then historically moan again as the last time I said about the saviours of British Speedway. At least Bolden is not a housing estate or a Tesco or a Sainsbury or a bull dozed heap al a Reading or a decaying stadium like Oxford or a wall like Nelson or faded into history like New Cross, Fleetwood or Liverpool to name a few . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 Back on topic, i can see the time maybe sooner rather than later, last close season i thought maybe would have been a time it could have been considered. You have the uneven share out of Sky money, which i thought maybe would have brought about a split, now we have the air fence situation. I am pretty sure we could have a league without being affiliated to the FIM. also it would possibly bring the clubs back into a realistic financial situation, and bring it back to being what it is, a £10 pound Sport, reintroduce second halfs, and the riders would maybe have a chat with supporters after meetings, long since lost. The old split of Provincial League and National League, eventually saw the Sport thrive, this when the PL got stronger, and the Supposed stronger NL (rider wise) but NOT spectator wise, came back under one body, due to the weakness of the NL. I can see this happening again, and in my opinion it would be for the long term benefit of the Sport in the UK, and it needs promoters to get together probably those without airfences to begin with, and probably run on a Semi Professional basis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted August 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Could get awkward when cusp NL/PL riders have a clash. Or if PL promoters agree not to use riders riding in the alternative NL. Might work for "professional" NL riders but wont work for riders on the way up as I see it. I can imagine that the BSPA might bring in a 'gentlemans agreement' not to use riders from a non affiliated league. However like most such agreements they make it wouldn't be too long before somebody desperately needed a rider or a really promising rider came through the new set up and a reason was found to use them. There might be a spell where young riders find it difficult to make the break through but it wouldn't be very long before the supply of new riders dried up for the higher level clubs. I'm not suggesting that this is the way forward for the sport but just wondering if it might happen given the rumour that the requirement for air fences will see tracks closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 It is well known that many Tracks lost money last season, in fact probably only a handful made any money. This season may be slightly better, but Speedway as a product has to change its face to bring in NEW supporters, Guest riders, Double points, which may be all very well for SKY have to go out of the window. Supporters come to watch there Team and the RACING product. The costs Have to be reduced, and the scrapping of paid bonus points, was only scratching at the surface. If we have a breakaway league spectators will soon become accustomed to the standard of racing, as they have always done, riders will find ways to make it pay, i read somewhere (dont know if its true) Steve Worrall had to take a job to help make ends meet. Thats the way it used to be, and theres no reason it wouldnt work that way again. What it really needs is lower cost, and more reliable machinery, thats where the biggest saving will/could be made, and some of that in turn could be passed on to spectators. Then when a rider progresses it would be up to him to judge if its affordable for him to progress to a fully proffesional rider with the higher costs it brings with it, really only riders who have the ability to ride in the GP series should be affected by all of this, your average rider who will only ever be good enough for league racing should be able to earn a reasonable amount from a breakaway league. For spectators seeing there OWN riders in there Team is what most come to see, i had little interest in watching speedway, when Cradley Heathens closed due to having NO Track. Yes i glanced at results of teams and certain riders, read forums, and took part on them, but other than that, nothing really could attract me to watching Wolves or Coventry, i think in all the time we didnt run i watched 2 meetings at Wolverhampton, and 2 at Birmingham. The average supporter will go to watch HIS/HER Team no matter what the standard of racing provided it gives them competitive racing with there OWN riders in that Team. The overall management of the League in my opinion will need to have people on board who have NO vested interest in a particular Team, or if that is impossible to provide, then it needs to be made up of say five people who change annually, so that no particular Member/Promoter, has more than his say, which may favour his Team to the detriment of the Sport as a whole. The rules/guideliness need to be laid down to begin with, and this committee needs to run and organise the Sport within those rules/guidelines, should something palpably fail to be working, then ALL the promoters alongside the management committee should have a EGM meeting to find a way forward. Back to a breakaway League, I hope it can happen, and i hope it does happen, because it may well be the saving of Speedway in the UK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I can imagine that the BSPA might bring in a 'gentlemans agreement' not to use riders from a non affiliated league. However like most such agreements they make it wouldn't be too long before somebody desperately needed a rider or a really promising rider came through the new set up and a reason was found to use them. There might be a spell where young riders find it difficult to make the break through but it wouldn't be very long before the supply of new riders dried up for the higher level clubs. I'm not suggesting that this is the way forward for the sport but just wondering if it might happen given the rumour that the requirement for air fences will see tracks closing. What happens if 'elf & safety' rule in favour of air fences as well? Only needs a jobsworth somewhere to hear about them, you know how these things develop... Edited August 20, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macinter Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 It is well known that many Tracks lost money last season, in fact probably only a handful made any money. This season may be slightly better, I have heard from what I believe to be a reliable source that every Elite league track is currently running at a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Many speedway riders used to have a 'day job' and then 'earned a months money in one night of speedway' as was often quoted by the riders themselves.. IF speedway could go 'back to the future' and get somewhere in between where we were then and where we are now then it would surely move forwards... Cutting costs is without doubt the biggest challenge, reduce those and rider salaries can then also be reduced, with the 'golden ticket' then of being able to lower admission fees which 'should' increase attendances overall... Maybe a 'new level' of speedway could just start that ball rolling? Edited August 20, 2013 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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