Sky. A Wasted Opportunity

[marko]

Like others have said its down the promoters that the sky link up did not work, they had a great opportunity to show their product off but what did they do?

The carried on making no more effort than normal to prepare tracks that would provide good racing and 95% of the time offer no incentive for people come to and watch rather than sit and home.

Week after week after week, they just accepted the fact hardly anyone was going to turn up, it could not have bothered them too much otherwise they would be begging for sky to stay away as it costs them money.

 

In short they simply took the money and ran and sod what happens in the future.

[moxey63]

Like others have said its down the promoters that the sky link up did not work, they had a great opportunity to show their product off but what did they do?

The carried on making no more effort than normal to prepare tracks that would provide good racing and 95% of the time offer no incentive for people come to and watch rather than sit and home.

Week after week after week, they just accepted the fact hardly anyone was going to turn up, it could not have bothered them too much otherwise they would be begging for sky to stay away as it costs them money.

 

In short they simply took the money and ran and sod what happens in the future.

 

 

You have to be realistic. Speedway is a second or third sort of income for many "promoters." They are tired at the end of the day having put countless hours into their proper businesses and speedway suffers. In an ideal world promoters would be able to afford to pay somebody to run the club - full time or part time - and pump up the promotional side of things.

 

For too long speedway has relied on a band of helpers who aren't professionals, and the product is sinking under the weight of it.

 

Too many people do things for the love of speedway. There isn't the money in the sport to pay for full-time pro's, even with what SKY gave, and perhaps we all should begin to realise this and stop pretending we can afford to pay riders as much. Some say the riders are now professionals and must be paid so... I say speedway cannot afford them.

[racers and royals]

 

 

Go Speed are in liquidation according to Companies House.

Are you sure ?? Go speed international ltd is the correct title-and they don`t appear to be in liquidation to me.

[E I Addio]

Oh dear, wait until you hear Father Crimbo doesn't really exist.

 

The Sunday People ran a host of stories in the mid-eighties that damaged speedway's reputation, a few teammates giving a few tyres in world championship meetings... and it caused irreparable damage when people actually used to care. I remember the piece featured on New At Ten, it was that much of a headline, and people in the pub I was in (I remember two guys stopped playing snooker to listen) were really interested in the item.

 

Now, 30 years down the line, speedway fans deny it still happens... despite seeing riders slowing in world championship meetings to give their team an advantage. I have proof, cos I seen it with my own eyes.

 

I don't have dates, times or names... but do you have proof it doesn't happen.

 

It's the blinkered view, similar to those sad individuals who, say, follow Irish crooner Denial O' Donnell on every date he does, under the illusion everything he does is bloody wonderful and not believing for one moment he farts like the rest of us, or, he does but it smells like freshly cut grass.

 

 

 

Of course I can't supply a full list of when it happened... I am not daft enough to go that far, and that's why we differ. Even if I told you I had concrete evidence you wouldn't believe it. You see what you want to, believe what makes you feel comfy. I saw something suspicious in the World Cup, I'm sure of that. I am sure other fans have seen suspicious things which, as they have happened in the past, make them ok to be happening today.

 

I have my views, you have yours. I deal in what I see, digest it over time and use my knowledge when I suspect something smelly may be happening. It is life, not just speedway.

 

You, on the other hand, may believe there are mobile phone inspectors that want to test your device from 200 yards away... and then wonder why your number is no longer available in the days you try to claim it back, thinking that it was in fact actually broke!

 

I had a chuckle then, remembering a story of individuals who actually purchased what they believed was a laptop from the boot of a car that had just pulled up on the street they were walking. After handing over the money, the person was gobsmacked when they discovered it was just a few bricks in a laptop bag!

 

 

 

 

 

In other words you can't tell us which teams in the 2013 Elite League have, to use your own words, "been purposely throwing matches all over the place". Didn't thinks so

[orion]

Sorry, orion, I thought I was discussing with someone who knew about the frailties of speedway. Please let me apologise.

 

The old league system was like a one-off world final, every point scored placed you a certain place higher than you may have been, and so it told in the final analysis. The main pot of gold in EL now is the Play-Offs. The old system of straight league matches was about how high you finished.

 

 

Told you what ? if you finish 6 now it's the same as being 6th pre play offs ...tell me what pot of gold did you get for coming 6th in the old days ..i tell you the answer the same as get you get now nothing . Unlees you can tell us what was so great about where you came in the league pre plays off and what you got as a reward then your point is useless .

[SCB]

 

In other words you can't tell us which teams in the 2013 Elite League have, to use your own words, "been purposely throwing matches all over the place". Didn't thinks so

It may not have happened this year (rolling averages make it hard) but it has happened in the past.

[Grand Central]

Anyway.

Just getting back to the thread for a moment.

 

Are we pretty much certain that Sky will be dropping Speedway?

Is that the best assumption for us to use for the discussion?

Or is there still a chance of keeping them on board?

 

Most of the talk has been of the 'downsizing' that will take place or have to take place if their money is lost.

And bemoaning our rulers failures

 

But does there remain the possibility that some sort of 'package' of domestic Speedway that can be put together to maintain our 'foot in the door' with the people from Isleworth?

And then all may not be wasted.

But what could that be?

 

I was thinking along the lines of a streamlined competition, completely separate from the season-long league.

But one that is drafted specifically to meet Sky's scheduling needs.

That could be over say six weeks of Mondays during the Football break.

Or much more concentrated over a week or two similar to the SWC.

And staged just at tracks that have the facilities to make the production as viable as possible.

Devising it would need to take into account exactly what Sky themselves wanted.

 

This could be streamlined knockout tournament, four team event or even our own British series of individual or pairs events.

 

Anyone think this a goer?

Or any other ideas?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Grand Central

[macinter]

Anyway.

Just getting back to the thread for a moment.

 

Are we pretty much certain that Sky will be dropping Speedway?

Is that the best assumption for us to use for the discussion?

Or is there still a chance of keeping them on board?

 

Most of the talk has been of the 'downsizing' that will take place or have to take place if their money is lost.

And bemoaning our rulers failures

 

But does there remain the possibility that some sort of 'package' of domestic Speedway that can be put together to maintain our 'foot in the door' with the people from Isleworth?

And then all may not be wasted.

But what could that be?

 

I was thinking along the lines of a streamlined competition, completely separate from the season-long league.

But one that is drafted specifically to meet Sky's scheduling needs.

That could be over say six weeks of Mondays during the Football break.

Or much more concentrated over a week or two similar to the SWC.

And staged just at tracks that have the facilities to make the production as viable as possible.

Devising it would need to take into account exactly what Sky themselves wanted.

 

This could be streamlined knockout tournament, four team event or even our own British series of individual or pairs events.

 

Anyone think this a goer?

Or any other ideas?

 

 

Well, that's a start anyway. Plus I like the suggestion of a four team tournament as it would be possible to compile teams where all of the riders were of similiar ability, which is not the case in the current EL set up. It might just persuade SKY to carry on a little longer.

[ch958]

somebody on here did float an idea for a super six competition which tv could be interested in - I'm sure most gp riders would commit to such a short competition - this could easily run between other league matches if it was a combined el/pl

 

eg Poole would run a home super 6 match once a month and standard league matches the rest of the time - plenty of scope to shoot me down there but worth considering i would have thought

 

crowds wouldnt be so good for the 'standard' league matches but lets face it they're not much cop now

[E I Addio]

It may not have happened this year (rolling averages make it hard) but it has happened in the past.

 

Undoubtedly some strange things have happened occasionally in the past ( and Poole 2009 springs to mind) but the context of the discussion is that Moxey 63 who says he hasn't been to speedway for years and never has a good word to say about the modern sport, claims that teams "are" (i.e. present tense meaning this season) throwing points all over the place which implies it is on a major scale and that is all because of the play-offs.

 

I am just intrigued to know how someone who never attends meetings gets this inside information.

 

Which teams are throwing teams all over the place in order to strengthen up? Obviously its not the top three . Could it be Kings Lynn ? I wouldn't have thought so In view of their record ?

Lakseside who sacked two assets and incurred loan fees for riders who weren't much better ? Or might it be Poole though I doubt if even Matt Ford would arrange for his World Champion to injure himself so he could be replaced with a lesser rider. Doesn't look to me like any of the bottom 4.

 

I would say its more likely that Moxey 63 knows orion has made him look an idiot and is just grasping at the first thing he can think of, rather than admit he is wrong.

 

The world is full of conspiracy theorists but unless these people produce some evidence to back up what they say then they remain conspiracies and not facts.

Edited August 19, 2013 by E I Addio

[arthur cross]

Are we pretty much certain that Sky will be dropping Speedway?

Is that the best assumption for us to use for the discussion?

 

But does there remain the possibility that some sort of 'package' of domestic Speedway that can be put together to maintain our 'foot in the door' with the people from Isleworth?

 

I was thinking along the lines of a streamlined competition, completely separate from the season-long league.

But one that is drafted specifically to meet Sky's scheduling needs.

That could be over say six weeks of Mondays during the Football break.

Or much more concentrated over a week or two similar to the SWC.

And staged just at tracks that have the facilities to make the production as viable as possible.

Devising it would need to take into account exactly what Sky themselves wanted.

 

This could be streamlined knockout tournament, four team event or even our own British series of individual or pairs events.

 

Anyone think this a goer?

Or any other ideas?

 

There hasn't been any announcement from Sky or the BSPA yet about the end of speedway on Sky but too many signs haven't been good, especially after Sky chose not to renew their Grand Prix coverage at the end of last season because too many of those meetings were difficult to squeeze into their crowded Saturday-evening schedules.

 

Clearly, domestic speedway on weekday evenings remains easier for Sky to schedule but it's noticeable that they're now much happier to shift Super League rugby league (which runs a February-to-October season) into whichever evenings suit them depending on whether football's in its season or not.

 

Hence Super League has been given a high-profile on Mondays as well as its usual Fridays during June and July but now the football's back, Super League's been switched into Thursdays alongside Fridays ... of course, rugby league's far less weather-dependent than speedway so Sky's far more guaranteed to be able to build-up to each game with trailers on its other channels and previews on Sky Sports News ... a few years ago, speedway was given the "Monday Night Live" banner outside the football season but that type of big billing is clearly now going rugby league's way instead.

 

Sky have seemed to like the concept of a Champions League for Europe's top speedway clubs and that's come close to being started in recent years but always seems just out of reach, maybe because of the problem of the top riders having to choose between their Polish, Swedish or British club in a Champions League when they normally represent all 3 (sometimes on consecutive days).

 

Then there's the problem of how many British clubs would want to be involved in a "made-for-Sky" competition running alongside a continuation of the Elite League ... there's little doubt Eastbourne wouldn't go near it because they've consistently preferred fewer home meetings in recent years and Belle Vue would probably be in the same boat until their new stadium's built ... I'm not sure Birmingham or Swindon would want to gamble on extra "made-for-Sky" meetings at the moment while Peterborough always seem to struggle for the right dates to use their Showground so that probably makes them doubtful as well ... hence, unless any of the Premier League clubs could be tempted upwards, at least for just the few "made-for-Sky" meetings, we're already down to only 5 entrants, namely Coventry, King's Lynn, Lakeside, Poole & Wolverhampton, which looks too small to attract Sky's enthusiasm (the existing deal for the Elite League clearly stipulates a minimum of 8 clubs, otherwise there's a get-out clause for Sky).

 

This time last year, greyhound racing was at a very similar crossroads to speedway's situation now regarding Sky coverage ... the dogs had an annual schedule of just over 30 nights on Sky that hadn't changed much since the mid-1990's but Sky made it clear they wouldn't be renewing on similar terms when the existing deal ran out at the end of 2012.

 

The dogs did find a solution to keep themselves on Sky but they're down to just over 20 meetings this year and effectively they've had to underwrite the production costs which are now paid via part of the bookmakers' expected profits on the Sky races ... the bookies accepted this deal because it was clear most of these events wouldn't take place without Sky's coverage so they might as well give up a modest percentage instead of getting nothing at all from these events.

 

The dogs also had far more other options than speedway that they could use on their way to finding that solution including being able to show some of the qualifying heats (and even a whole event like the Scottish Derby) on the Racing Post's 5-nights-a-week greyhound channel on Sky-212.

 

Even so, Sky didn't show any greyhound racing in January or February this year (they'd normally have had a couple of nights each month) before the deal thrashed out between the dogs, the bookies and Sky finally began in March ... it's also very noticeable that the production values are well down this year compared to previously, notably the betting updates and the camerawork during the races.

 

Speedway doesn't have a Racing Post-style channel to fall back on and good luck trying to persuade engine tuners to put a cut of their profits back into speedway like the greyhound bookies have done !!

 

Meanwhile, Eurosport are delighted, maybe even gob-smacked, about their viewing figures but (correct me if I'm worng) that's totally regarding coverage they've picked up from outisde sources (BSI for the Grand Prix meetings and Polish or other broadcasters for any pairs or European events) ... I doubt either Eurosport or BT have speedway high up their wish-list if they've got to fund its production.

Edited August 19, 2013 by arthur cross

[Derwent]

Are you sure ?? Go speed international ltd is the correct title-and they don`t appear to be in liquidation to me.

 

Well there's a company called Go-Speed Ltd that's in liquidation, company directors are named as Mr Terence Russell and Mrs Yvonne Russell.

[Grand Central]

Then there's the problem of how many British clubs would want to be involved in a "made-for-Sky" competition running alongside a continuation of the Elite League ... there's little doubt Eastbourne wouldn't go near it because they've consistently preferred fewer home meetings in recent years and Belle Vue would probably be in the same boat until their new stadium's built ... I'm not sure Birmingham or Swindon would want to gamble on extra "made-for-Sky" meetings at the moment while Peterborough always seem to struggle for the right dates to use their Showground so that probably makes them doubtful as well ... hence, unless any of the Premier League clubs could be tempted upwards, at least for just the few "made-for-Sky" meetings, we're already down to only 5 entrants, namely Coventry, King's Lynn, Lakeside, Poole & Wolverhampton, which looks too small to attract Sky's enthusiasm (the existing deal for the Elite League clearly stipulates a minimum of 8 clubs, otherwise there's a get-out clause for Sky).

 

A 'made for sky' competition would have to built around the Sky Schedules with the realisation that we were well down their list of priorities.

So we would get what is 'left'.

 

But the idea of coming up with something of this type would be to keep some of the money rolling in.

So hopefully the participation would be open to anyone who could make it viable and they would get to share whatever is being paid.

The events and venues would have to be chosen accordingly.

I certainly don't see any need for TV to set foot inside Arlington but still have Eastbourne as part of some 'made for sky' event.

 

I feel you have become a little 2013 Elite League 'centric' in your thinking. Surely whatever 2014 brings us it will not look like the current set up anyway.

So meeting numbers and the finances of running those meetings are going to change a lot I would have tought

 

A simple renewal of the contract was probably always impossible and not really what the British Promoters would want anyway.

The stale format on varied nights is looking past it's sell by date for everyone.

But surely we could all see the benefit of keeping Sky on board somehow.

[arthur cross]

A 'made for sky' competition would have to built around the Sky Schedules with the realisation that we were well down their list of priorities.

So we would get what is 'left'.

 

But the idea of coming up with something of this type would be to keep some of the money rolling in.

So hopefully the participation would be open to anyone who could make it viable and they would get to share whatever is being paid.

The events and venues would have to be chosen accordingly.

I certainly don't see any need for TV to set foot inside Arlington but still have Eastbourne as part of some 'made for sky' event.

 

I feel you have become a little 2013 Elite League 'centric' in your thinking. Surely whatever 2014 brings us it will not look like the current set up anyway.

So meeting numbers and the finances of running those meetings are going to change a lot I would have tought

 

A simple renewal of the contract was probably always impossible and not really what the British Promoters would want anyway.

The stale format on varied nights is looking past it's sell by date for everyone.

But surely we could all see the benefit of keeping Sky on board somehow.

 

I can see why you think I've been "2013 Elite centric" ... however, it was the easiest way to explain my thinking while just about writing-off any Premier clubs wanting to move upwards in any way, even if it's just for a few meetings into a "made-for-Sky" event ... a good few of the Premier clubs are going to be seriously stretched financially just making sure they've an air-fence ready for next spring, never mind worrying about anything else.

 

And however much we can all see the benefit of keeping on Sky on board, there's a much bigger hurdle to overcome in that direction because we need everyone at Sky (accountants as well as producers and schedulers) seeing enough benefit in keeping speedway on board !! ... I'm sure this may be difficult for some speedway fans to accept but it's clear to me that British speedway needs Sky (or another TV partner) far more than Sky (or another TV partner) needs British speedway.

 

Like you, I expect British domestic speedway in 2014 will look quite a bit different to its 2013 pattern ... but I'm dubious whether it'll work, firstly based on most of the BSPA's decision-making in recent years but also based on what I remember of the 1995 & '96 "one big division" either side of the 1994 1st-&-2nd Division and 1997 Elite-&-Premier League

[Grand Central]

I can see why you think I've been "2013 Elite centric" ... however, it was the easiest way to explain my thinking while just about writing-off any Premier clubs wanting to move upwards in any way, even if it's just for a few meetings into a "made-for-Sky" event ... a good few of the Premier clubs are going to be seriously stretched financially just making sure they've an air-fence ready for next spring, never mind worrying about anything else.

 

And however much we can all see the benefit of keeping on Sky on board, there's a much bigger hurdle to overcome in that direction because we need everyone at Sky (accountants as well as producers and schedulers) seeing enough benefit in keeping speedway on board !! ... I'm sure this may be difficult for some speedway fans to accept but it's clear to me that British speedway needs Sky (or another TV partner) far more than Sky (or another TV partner) needs British speedway.

 

Like you, I expect British domestic speedway in 2014 will look quite a bit different to its 2013 pattern ... but I'm dubious whether it'll work, firstly based on most of the BSPA's decision-making in recent years but also based on what I remember of the 1995 & '96 "one big division" either side of the 1994 1st-&-2nd Division and 1997 Elite-&-Premier League

 

I agree completely with every point you make.

 

I was just wondering what people thought could be done.

But your assesment of the unlikeliness of success is just too realistic.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Grand Central

[The White Knight]

Personally - I don't believe there will be ANY Speedway on SKY next year. :sad:

 

I just hope and pray that I am wrong. :sad:

[ford]

Oh dear, wait until you hear Father Crimbo doesn't really exist.

 

The Sunday People ran a host of stories in the mid-eighties that damaged speedway's reputation, a few teammates giving a few tyres in world championship meetings... and it caused irreparable damage when people actually used to care. I remember the piece featured on New At Ten, it was that much of a headline, and people in the pub I was in (I remember two guys stopped playing snooker to listen) were really interested in the item.

 

Now, 30 years down the line, speedway fans deny it still happens... despite seeing riders slowing in world championship meetings to give their team an advantage. I have proof, cos I seen it with my own eyes.

 

I don't have dates, times or names... but do you have proof it doesn't happen.

 

It's the blinkered view, similar to those sad individuals who, say, follow Irish crooner Denial O' Donnell on every date he does, under the illusion everything he does is bloody wonderful and not believing for one moment he farts like the rest of us, or, he does but it smells like freshly cut grass.

 

 

 

Of course I can't supply a full list of when it happened... I am not daft enough to go that far, and that's why we differ. Even if I told you I had concrete evidence you wouldn't believe it. You see what you want to, believe what makes you feel comfy. I saw something suspicious in the World Cup, I'm sure of that. I am sure other fans have seen suspicious things which, as they have happened in the past, make them ok to be happening today.

 

I have my views, you have yours. I deal in what I see, digest it over time and use my knowledge when I suspect something smelly may be happening. It is life, not just speedway.

 

You, on the other hand, may believe there are mobile phone inspectors that want to test your device from 200 yards away... and then wonder why your number is no longer available in the days you try to claim it back, thinking that it was in fact actually broke!

 

I had a chuckle then, remembering a story of individuals who actually purchased what they believed was a laptop from the boot of a car that had just pulled up on the street they were walking. After handing over the money, the person was gobsmacked when they discovered it was just a few bricks in a laptop bag!

 

 

 

 

 

Wasn't just speedway though was it, look at football, cricket and F1 and you see some serious fiddling happening.

[New Science]

Personally - I don't believe there will be ANY Speedway on SKY next year. :sad:

 

I just hope and pray that I am wrong. :sad:

You couldn't blame Sky if they pull the plug.When they cover meetings "live" nobody turns up to watch them.Everyone seems to want to keep the Sky coverage as long as its 'not at my track' and they can watch from their own armchair

[The Doctor...]

You couldn't blame Sky if they pull the plug.When they cover meetings "live" nobody turns up to watch them.Everyone seems to want to keep the Sky coverage as long as its 'not at my track' and they can watch from their own armchair

 

Yep..that sums it up. How many other sports lose 50/60% of their crowd just because they're on telly ? Very few i would guess. Probably says more about the arrogance of speedway fans nowadays who want the world on a stick and shout the odds on forums like this making demands.

[orion]

You couldn't blame Sky if they pull the plug.When they cover meetings "live" nobody turns up to watch them.Everyone seems to want to keep the Sky coverage as long as its 'not at my track' and they can watch from their own armchair

Not 100 % true as I said on another topic first of all there always going to be a small crowd on a off race night plus you have to put some effort to promote the meeting as well with lower prices etc ...having a meeting on a off race night with sky in town and getting people to pay full price then you are always going to get the same result ,a small crowd .