HenryW Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) From what I have been reading, I wonder whether BSI/IMG will start legal action against the FIM for this decision.... I can only assume that they will, given the fact that this decision has a massive bearing on the competitors willing to race in the series that they have paid the FIM for...If they just sit back and accept this ruling without a challenge one can only assume that they were somewhat complicit in the making of it and any suggestion otherwise is pure PR bull****. Edited February 15, 2014 by HenryW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 From what I have been reading, I wonder whether BSI/IMG will start legal action against the FIM for this decision.... I doubt they're happy their exclusivity has been totally undermined by the FIM/FIM Europe shenanigans, but you generally don't take legal action against organisations who you might want to continue a working relationship with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Hans was banned by the SCB for riding in an unrecognised meeting that British Speedway ranks alongside any other random individual meeting. The FIM are now banning GP riders competing in the SEC championship. All seems pretty reasonable or what's to stop me declaring now I'm running the the "All of the World except Uruguay Championship" and getting riders to sign up. I'm running it on a Thursday too, so screw the British clubs running on a Thursday! You seem to think that's acceptable? Unless I'm still confused The SCB is a third party to the contract between the rider and club, all be it the governing body for speedway in the uk. If The club has knowledge of and are happy for a rider to ride in the SEC what has it got to do with the SCB. The club would have to accept that they may be a rider short for any clash of meetings or they have the option not to sign that rider. Not an ideal situation but that is up to the club. If all the top riders in the UK opt for the SEC what is the SCB going to do then. The result of the FIM action will force riders to choose between the competitions, but if the majority of the top riders opt for the SEC the SEC may then set up a World Championship in addition to the European one. This stand could result in a complete split of speedway where riders, clubs, or national federations break away from the FIM. If you or anyone else wanted to start up a competition that would be up to them. The riders would then decide if they want to take part. It is up to the clubs they sign for to accept any prior contract. If the club is not happy with that prior contract they do not sign them. The one major issue here is that the SGP and the SEC could both run with riders in both competitions, but the actions being taken may cause a major break up of the sport, which is not good. Edited February 15, 2014 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 If The club has knowledge of and are happy for a rider to ride in the SEC what has it got to do with the SCB. Teams are expected to be at full strength, unless there are injuries or a recognised higher priority competition is taking precedence. For example, if a team is riding away without its star rider they've released for a mickey mouse competition, it's potentially going to affect the crowd of the home track. The SCB is there to uphold the regulations in this respect. if the majority of the top riders opt for the SEC the SEC may then set up a World Championship in addition to the European one. OneSport would not be able to do that in the context of FIM Europe, and BSI have the rights for the World Championships. It would require a breakaway movement, but perhaps that is overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 The SCB is a third party to the contract between the rider and club, all be it the governing body for speedway in the uk. If The club has knowledge of and are happy for a rider to ride in the SEC what has it got to do with the SCB. The club would have to accept that they may be a rider short for any clash of meetings or they have the option not to sign that rider. Not an ideal situation but that is up to the club. If all the top riders in the UK opt for the SEC what is the SCB going to do then. The result of the FIM action will force riders to choose between the competitions, but if the majority of the top riders opt for the SEC the SEC may then set up a World Championship in addition to the European one. This stand could result in a complete split of speedway where riders, clubs, or national federations break away from the FIM. If you or anyone else wanted to start up a competition that would be up to them. The riders would then decide if they want to take part. It is up to the clubs they sign for to accept any prior contract. If the club is not happy with that prior contract they do not sign them. The one major issue here is that the SGP and the SEC could both run with riders in both competitions, but the actions being taken may cause a major break up of the sport, which is not good. So if a rider who performs badly at Swindon informs his club he cant ride on a Thursay in the EL because he has his pottery classes you think thats ok? Because thats what the SEC is equal too. It's an irrelevance it's not seen as a valid competition. The SCB are not a 3rd party, the SCB enact the rules that the BSPA write. The clubs are the BSPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) So if a rider who performs badly at Swindon informs his club he cant ride on a Thursay in the EL because he has his pottery classes you think thats ok? Because thats what the SEC is equal too. It's an irrelevance it's not seen as a valid competition. The SCB are not a 3rd party, the SCB enact the rules that the BSPA write. The clubs are the BSPA. No it is not ok, unless arranged by prior agreement in the contract, but a club would not agree to that arrangement. The club would then dump the rider or sue him for breach of contract. Not seen as a valid competition by who, the SCB, and any other organisation that gets a "fee" from BSI . The riders have the option to ride in the SEC and ignore British Speedway if not allowed to ride. Fans are complaining that many of the top riders do not ride here, If the SEC attracts the top riders that are here even they will disappear.from the league racing. The SCB do enact the rules of the BSPA, and havn't they done a good job. Edited February 15, 2014 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm confused by the rumoured withdrawal of Emil from the GP series. As far as I am aware Sajfutdinow team is drafting a petition to the BSI requesting cancellation of the SGP entry form, which he was obliged to sent earlier. The form was sent before FIM ruling effectively banning SGP riders from taking part in the SEC .The problem is that the Russian has signed sponsorship deal which obliges him to ride in the SEC. It is quite possible that BSI will refused Sayfutdinov’s request. If that happens Sayfutdinov’s lawyer will have no option than open a legal battle in courts. They will argue that their client was not aware that situation will change so drastically. Nicki Pedersen is a similar situation and the story goes that he has already sent a letter to his National Federation asking for help in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hypothetically ... if OneSport were to operate a championship outside of the FIM where would the riders find sufficient employment if they were banned from Denmark, GB and Sweden for example? Where would the riders find sufficient employment ?... it depends what one regards as sufficient. As far as I know Polish EkstraLiga pay sufficient money for top riders to give Denmark and GB a miss. Chris Holder is the latest example. Others found this some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Not seen as a valid competition by who, the SCB, and any other organisation that gets a "fee" from BSI. Who is getting a fee from BSI, or OneSport for that matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 No it is not ok, unless arranged by prior agreement in the contract, but a club would not agree to that arrangement. The club would then dump the rider or sue him for breach of contract. Not seen as a valid competition by who, the SCB, and any other organisation that gets a "fee" from BSI . The riders have the option to ride in the SEC and ignore British Speedway if not allowed to ride. Fans are complaining that many of the top riders do not ride here, If the SEC attracts the top riders that are here even they will disappear.from the league racing. The SCB do enact the rules of the BSPA, and havn't they done a good job. British Speedway gets nothing from BSI. British speedway through the SCB, and the ACU are running under the FIM. They don't run under EUM (FIM Europe - the people SEC run under) so don't have to recognise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Where would the riders find sufficient employment ?... it depends what one regards as sufficient. As far as I know Polish EkstraLiga pay sufficient money for top riders to give Denmark and GB a miss. Chris Holder is the latest example. Others found this some time ago. Holder has just signed up to ride in the Danish League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 British speedway through the SCB, and the ACU are running under the FIM. They don't run under EUM (FIM Europe - the people SEC run under) so don't have to recognise it. I think the ACU is also a member of FIM Europe, but presumably the SCB/BSPA can choose to recognise whichever competitions it wishes. I seem to remember that FIM World Longtrack and European U21 events (when the latter was an FIM competition) were not recognised in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Who is getting a fee from BSI, or OneSport for that matter? It was mentioned earlier that BSI have the rights for the World Championship for a number of years, someone must have sold those rights. I cannot imagine they let BSI run the championship and collect the tv rights for free. British Speedway gets nothing from BSI. British speedway through the SCB, and the ACU are running under the FIM. They don't run under EUM (FIM Europe - the people SEC run under) so don't have to recognise it. I did not say that British Speedway gets anything from BSI. As I have said before and your post confirms it, there are too many organisations involved in running speedway, no wonder the sport is in a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) It was mentioned earlier that BSI have the rights for the World Championship for a number of years, someone must have sold those rights. I cannot imagine they let BSI run the championship and collect the tv rights for free. Of course not. The current contract runs until 2021, and FIM are paid something like GBP 1.5 million per year. They in turn pay the SGP (and probably SWC) prize money out that, but it's unclear where the rest goes. Edited February 15, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Of course not. The current contract runs until 2021, and FIM are paid something like GBP 1.5 million per year. They in turn pay the SGP (and probably SWC) prize money out that, but it's unclear where the rest goes. So if an organisation set up and ran its own World Championship and offered to pay the National Federations this 1.5 million per year , what stops the Federations waving good by to the FIM. The National Federations might then feed this money down to the clubs and feeder training schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 So if an organisation set up and ran its own World Championship and offered to pay the National Federations this 1.5 million per year , what stops the Federations waving good by to the FIM. The multi-disciplinary nature of motorcycling sport complicates this. National federations have responsibility for moredisciplines than just speedway, which probably represents a relatively minor part of their activities these days. I'd imagine they wouldn't want to compromise their road racing interests, which presumably are far more lucrative for them than track racing. The only way it's going to happen is if speedway breaks away from the whole FIM/national federation structure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pedaler Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 ...pottery classes ... thats what the SEC is equal too Well it's certainly not very British is it? Maybe that's the British definition of a Mickey Mouse event - one that's not governed by a British organisation. After all, we won the war! Two of them in fact. And a World Cup! Who has the right to argue against the British? How dare these Polish upstarts start up another tournament. Who the hell do they think they are? Bah! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 .... After all, we won the war! Two of them in fact. And a World Cup! Who has the right to argue against the British? How dare these Polish upstarts start up another tournament. Who the hell do they think they are? Bah! I could not have phrased it better !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 As I have said before and your post confirms it, there are too many organisations involved in running speedway, no wonder the sport is in a mess. Right, so lets get rid of the EUM (FIM Europe/SEC) then. Well it's certainly not very British is it? Maybe that's the British definition of a Mickey Mouse event - one that's not governed by a British organisation. After all, we won the war! Two of them in fact. And a World Cup! Who has the right to argue against the British? How dare these Polish upstarts start up another tournament. Who the hell do they think they are? Bah! They can have as many Championships as they like, we can all set one up. But British Speedway (the SCB/ACU) don't have the recognise them. in the same way if somehow a speedway rider was also a footballer who got to play for England in the World Cup this summer, his EL club would not get a facility the SCB/ACU don't recognise the FIM Europe meetings. They never have in it's 12 year history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just been catching up on SportoweFakty; They have given a honest review of the situation and It's clear to me that the BSI are in the wrong, I won't say what I think of them and their stooge due to the threat of possible legal action but it's clear to everybody else, the detrimental effect that they are having on world speedway. How many speedway training tracks has the BSI set up? We go to Cardiff every year.. Where is our money going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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