Humphrey Appleby Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Jan O was possibly the worst gater for a real top level rider i have seen but definitely the best overtaker, amd always in control... The number of injuries he had would possibly suggest otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 DON'T think he had that many injuries before the one that ended his career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 http://www.monsteren...n/monstergirls/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) DON'T think he had that many injuries before the one that ended his career Simply bizarre! From memory I believe he qualified for both the 1989 AND 1990 World Finals only to suffer broken bones in his arm(s) just days before the finals and was forced withdraw from appearing at both Munich and Odsal.. Injuries, and right at the wrong time, were quite a feature of JanO's career and certainly a big reason why he was a one-time only winner. . Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 THAT'S the trouble with getting old and a fading memory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 THAT'S the trouble with getting old and a fading memory... Yes, I'm always being told be sympathetic to the elderly! Jan O is just one of those people for whom the mention of his name always seems to remind one of the awful 'luck' he suffered And how differently his career may be viewed today but for those injuries. He is all-too often viewed as a on-time-charlie when nothing could be further from the truth. He had that unexpectedly strong World Final debut in 1985, second in 1986, so-so in 1987 and third after a run-off for the title in 1988. His title win in 1991 would look so much less isolated if, in 1989 and 1990, he had been allowed to perform at the finals for which had qualified. We could be remembering a two or three time champion and at the very least a man who could have had rostrum appearences five times. And perhaps so much more in the subsequent years. Except, of course, for injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I CAN at least remember that Jan O also had to contend with some pretty useful fellow countrymen at that time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) The 1990 injury was a go karting accident, so nothing to do with his speedway ability. i always thought gundersen and knudsen equally naturally talented - and certainly tommys career was blighted with injury, Erik i don't recall having many at all until that tragic day at Odual. Edited August 22, 2013 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) I CAN at least remember that Jan O also had to contend with some pretty useful fellow countrymen at that time... Yes, in general true, But he had already done the hard part of qualifying for the finals in 1989 and 1990 via the Nordic route And Danes were actually not that plentiful in the those particular Finals. Realistically a fully fit JanO may well have had to settle for a Silver medal behind Hans at Munich. But at Odsal, of course, Hans was the lone Dane when JanO pulled out. Good final though it was most of the field was fairly beatable by someone with a little extra. Whether JanO would have had that without the off-track injury, who knows? The 1990 injury was a go karting accident, so nothing to do with his speedway ability. i always thought gundersen and knudsen equally naturally talented - and certainly tommys career was blighted with injury, Erik i don't recall having many at all until that tragic day at Odual. Yes, that's true. Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Yes, I'm always being told be sympathetic to the elderly! Jan O is just one of those people for whom the mention of his name always seems to remind one of the awful 'luck' he suffered And how differently his career may be viewed today but for those injuries. He is all-too often viewed as a on-time-charlie when nothing could be further from the truth. He had that unexpectedly strong World Final debut in 1985, second in 1986, so-so in 1987 and third after a run-off for the title in 1988. His title win in 1991 would look so much less isolated if, in 1989 and 1990, he had been allowed to perform at the finals for which had qualified. We could be remembering a two or three time champion and at the very least a man who could have had rostrum appearences five times. And perhaps so much more in the subsequent years. Except, of course, for injuries. excellent post, but to be pedantic his mid table finish in 85 was about as expected given a favourable draw and presence of 5 continental riders. and in 88 he wasn't involved in the run off for the title. i think he is pretty well regarded on here at least - i ve seen people rate him ahead of nicki when talking about great danes . would u rank him above or below sudden Sam who also had injury problems a title and multiple rostrum spots? - personally id rank him fractionally higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) excellent post, but to be pedantic his mid table finish in 85 was about as expected given a favourable draw and presence of 5 continental riders. and in 88 he wasn't involved in the run off for the title. i think he is pretty well regarded on here at least - i ve seen people rate him ahead of nicki when talking about great danes . would u rank him above or below sudden Sam who also had injury problems a title and multiple rostrum spots? - personally id rank him fractionally higher. No pedantry is fine. Of course he wasn't in the run-off for the title in 1988, I really didn't write that very well at all. You are probably right about the 1985 Final; perhaps it was just me and my Dad that were a little surprised by his performance that day. But I do remember us chatting about it in those terms at Odsal that afternoon. Better than Sam or not? That's an interesting question as I had not really ever thought of them in a 'match-up'.. Instinctively I would put JanO ahead. But if i thought about it little longer and looked facts and figures up I might change that! I went to each of their World Final wins and there is no doubt that while JanO did not face a very distinguished field at Ullevi; he did smash them to pieces. Sam had a rather average afternoon at Pocking and managed to come away as champion. I had followed Wolves around a fair bit in 1991 and Sam had been absolutely phenominal on many occasions that year. So taking all his injuries into account it just seemed fair, and that a man of that talent deserved at least one title. Thinking back, yes I think Sam was 'worth' one title. JanO was probably 'worth' the odd one more. Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I think the surprise in 85 was his first out win ahead of the much more fancied knudsen . which would have been less of a surprise had it been known in advance what an advantage gate 1 would prove in the early heats. the big surprises that day for me were sudden Sam who made the rostrum and kai nieme , who could have done but for a poor last ride. and going the other way, the performances of lance king and thepre meeting favourite shown Moran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) I think the surprise in 85 was his first out win ahead of the much more fancied knudsen . which would have been less of a surprise had it been known in advance what an advantage gate 1 would prove in the early heats. the big surprises that day for me were sudden Sam who made the rostrum and kai nieme , who could have done but for a poor last ride. and going the other way, the performances of lance king and thepre meeting favourite shown Moran. Yes you are probably spot on about JanO that day. That first race win WAS the eyebrow raiser but as you say the early gate one advantage was strong. Sam Ermolenko was certainly THE surprise packet that day, no doubt. Kai Niemi was just some strange enigma, though. He was part under-rated by many and then also part an under-achiever as well! Having spent a couple of years following Wimbledon whilst at University one had become well versed with his ways and I remember he did score well in the re-opening World Team match at Odsal earlier in the year. So he was less surprising to me. The Yanks, after their performances in the Overseas at Odsal, I think we all expected more of them. Shooey's failure being particularly disappointing; but I was never a King fan so his score sort of passed me by at the time. Edited August 22, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Yes you are probably spot on about JanO that day. That first race win WAS the eyebrow raiser but as you say the early gate one advantage was strong. Sam Ermolenko was certainly THE surprise packet that day, no doubt. Kai Niemi was just some strange enigma, though. He was part under-rated by many and then also part an under-achiever as well! Having spent a couple of years following Wimbledon whilst at University one had become well versed with his ways and I remember he did score well in the re-opening World Team match at Odsal earlier in the year. So he was less surprising to me. The Yanks, after their performances in the Overseas at Odsal, I think we all expected more of them. Shooey's failure being particularly disappointing; but I was never a King fan so his score sort of passed me by at the time. Knudsen is a bloke who is often forgotten a class act,i would put him up there with the mighty two.Ok his cv does not show it but in that final with Nielsen he was so unlucky but Nielsen had earned his luck.Knudsen for me when he came back from that bad back injury really did reach a high level again a nearly man like Jessup i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 If i had to compare knudsen to someone from that era it would be carter - both had their best result on debut in the 81 final, both were denied a world title by a controversial referring decision, both had careers blighted with injuries. top class rider no doubt, to my mind would be one of four danes in my top ten riders of the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 KNUDSEN'S performance at Long Beach in the 1985 World Team Cup Final was one of the best I ever saw ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 KNUDSEN'S performance at Long Beach in the 1985 World Team Cup Final was one of the best I ever saw ... Yes, he was stunning that night especially his win from the back against Bobby Schwartz to get his maximum. In fact, I saw him net brilliant big-track maximums at The Shay and a stonking 18-pointer at Belle Vue earlier in 1985 and thought that could well be his year. But at Odsal, just a few weeks after Long Beach, he could barely win a race except against the ho-hopers when he was well out of the running. Actually he was quite the big disappointment at Odsal that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Actually he was quite the big disappointment at Odsal that day. Knudsen often threatened, but didn't seem to have the ability to pull things out of the bag at crucial times. A good rider, but I wouldn't put him the same league as Nielsen and Gundersen. I felt Ermolenko was quite lucky to win the 1993 Final (at which I was present), given that Nielsen was excluded for passing him and he had an engine failure (or was it chain came off) just before a race was stopped. However, he'd had poor luck on other occasions, so I'm sure few begrudged him a World title. Edited August 23, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Knudsen often threatened, but didn't seem to have the ability to pull things out of the bag at crucial times. A good rider, but I wouldn't put him the same league as Nielsen and Gundersen. I felt Ermolenko was quite lucky to win the 1993 Final (at which I was present), given that Nielsen was excluded for passing him and he had an engine failure (or was it chain came off) just before a race was stopped. However, he'd had poor luck on other occasions, so I'm sure few begrudged him a World title. quite correct Knudsen just seemed to lack that final killer instinct possibly a bit like Leigh Adams. Ermolenko was lucky in Pocking re the engine failure, the Nielsen incident was 50/50. True Sam was a guy people wanted to see win a world crown, but in his last ride i believe he ran a last just cruising round at the back as the title was won already? If thats the case hate to see that as wasnt fair on all the other guys who at that point though it was the last one off final and could have affected gp places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I CAN at least remember that Jan O also had to contend with some pretty useful fellow countrymen at that time... Yes, but they all have to be beaten. Nielsen and Gundersen managed it, Knudsen did not, and Pedersen had injuries at inopportune times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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