BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Absolutely spot on mikebv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) The thing is "Bryn", a lot of people use these names on here including some promoters so why knock it. I even remember talking with a promoter of Oxford Speedway who said he posted on here in disguise and deliberately wrote badly so nobody would suspect it was him! So why do you constantly knock it. There are promoters on here reading this stuff, and some of them are joining in the fun! I posted on forums using my real name in the past, but changed when I realised nobody else was doing it. I thought it made me look like I was trying to look self important. But each to their own. I know there are a lot of nonsense posting on here (promoters in disguise perhaps??), but when genuine points are made why should they not be taken into account. Surely it's the quality of the post, not the name of the person who made it, that matters. Fan forums at the stadium for face to face discussion are a good idea though. But clubs tend to get all huffy if anyone criticises them at these and then don't do it again. I'm NOT knocking this forum 'Grachan' and accept that if using a nom-de-plume floats people's boats as they used to say, that's up to them if they use them although I personally don't see the point of hiding behind a barrier but that, I stress, is my OWN personal opinion on that subject. No I'm not knocking this forum, far from it otherwise I would not have been a member of it for the past ten years. What I AM doing though is pointing out it is NOT necessarily the most effective way of communicating with other persons and getting one's own opinions / suggestions across to them and acted upon where appropriate. You've written,"Fan forums at the stadium for face to face discussion are a good idea though. But clubs tend to get all huffy if anyone criticises them at these and then don't do it again." Have you any examples you can point to in order to back that claim contained in the second sentence of that? Edited July 31, 2013 by Bryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I work for a company who spends millions each year in receiving feedback from our customers... When we get it, good or bad, we use it by acting on what we got told.. What we never never do is find excuses to justify the issue if the feedback wasnt what we wanted to hear as at the time it was given, the person concerned felt they had a genuine reason for complaint.. Therefore all me an my team need to do is listen, learn and fix the issue as quickly as possible so as not to 'p' others off the same way....... Due to the wonders of technology, this forum can deliver shedloads of constructive, free, databased feedback with several common issues being regularly challenged by those who contribute, and also many complimentary comments when 'speedway is done well'.... If it was my business I would welcome it, and use it to improve my business model, not try and second guess as to any other agenda or even worse take it personally... Be open minded about what your punters are telling you, accept the feedback at face value, and use the info to move your business forwards... . Or alternatively completely ignore it if you think you are already doing a great job... I know what the successful businessman would do... Great post 'mike bv' by listening what have they got to lose anyway.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 What I AM doing though is pointing out it is NOT necessarily the most effective way of communicating with other persons and getting one's own opinions / suggestions across to them and acted upon where appropriate. Once again, you don't understand. It's not up to the customer (fan) to get their feelings across to the seller (promoter). The seller should be using all means possible to obtain feedback on their product. Its basic business sense. This forum provides free feedback that some businesses have to spend a lot of money to obtain. The best businesses find critical feedback far more useful than pats on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I work for a company who spends millions each year in receiving feedback from our customers... When we get it, good or bad, we use it by acting on what we got told.. What we never never do is find excuses to justify the issue if the feedback wasnt what we wanted to hear as at the time it was given, the person concerned felt they had a genuine reason for complaint.. Therefore all me an my team need to do is listen, learn and fix the issue as quickly as possible so as not to 'p' others off the same way....... Due to the wonders of technology, this forum can deliver shedloads of constructive, free, databased feedback with several common issues being regularly challenged by those who contribute, and also many complimentary comments when 'speedway is done well'.... If it was my business I would welcome it, and use it to improve my business model, not try and second guess as to any other agenda or even worse take it personally... Be open minded about what your punters are telling you, accept the feedback at face value, and use the info to move your business forwards... . Or alternatively completely ignore it if you think you are already doing a great job... I know what the successful businessman would do... Good post and I agree with all of it. The difference is that you are talking about customers who have contacted you, presumably identifiable, and with whom you can continue discussion and/or agree with or disagree with their comments. Not the same case with forums. Forums probably only represent about 1% of those attending meetings, the real fans turn up at meetings, or contact promotions when they don't want to. That is feedback, and woe betide businesses that ignore or ridicule what a sincere customer has to say. You don't have to agree, or give all your reasons for either agreeing or disagreeing but acknowledge their points and give something back with info you choose to share with them. That would be the case also with forums, but the usual 'regular' posters are not always fans attending any meetings and/or just use the forum to have a go and knock something that they choose to object to. If those posters were even handed and praised where necessary, did not invent situations and respected those who run speedway and those who choose to support and attend speedway, the scenario in your post would be appropriate. We all know that the BSPA is not perfect, and does not get everything right, but at least they have chosen to try to keep alive a sport with their own time and considerable money in order to do so. Having not to suffer the consequences of their comments, unfortunately some forum members think that others who have the responsibility should do everything that they say. What world do they live in. Fans are divided sometimes as to what should happen so in a lot of cases 50% will be right and 50% will be wrong. But it is someone else, the promotion, who will suffer the consequences and I think it is therefore their prerogative what they do do. Given the history of some forum members, there is no way that promotions are going take the time to read everything on forums. Why should they have to. They are usually busy people and will listen to those fans that have the decency to contact them with their concerns and comments. Why have to take time and read everything written by the 'wrecking balls' on here, and get the flack when you do do that. Several riders and promoters have ventured on here but in practically every case, there are the ones that choose to have a go at them with the result that they don't come back on here. They have better things to do than put their heads on a block, for some constant critic to drop the blade. Appropriately, on a thread headed "Why the Animosity", the guy who has made the most posts happens to be a fan living in Portugal, who hasn't a good word to say about anybody, who shows no respect to others who dare to differ from his opinions, and only occasionally/rarely attends a meeting here when in this country. Step forward Mr BWitcher. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Once again, you don't understand. It's not up to the customer (fan) to get their feelings across to the seller (promoter). The seller should be using all means possible to obtain feedback on their product. Its basic business sense. This forum provides free feedback that some businesses have to spend a lot of money to obtain. The best businesses find critical feedback far more useful than pats on the back. That is very true BW, very true. Good post and I agree with all of it. The difference is that you are talking about customers who have contacted you, presumably identifiable, and with whom you can continue discussion and/or agree with or disagree with their comments. Not the same case with forums. Forums probably only represent about 1% of those attending meetings, the real fans turn up at meetings, or contact promotions when they don't want to. That is feedback, and woe betide businesses that ignore or ridicule what a sincere customer has to say. You don't have to agree, or give all your reasons for either agreeing or disagreeing but acknowledge their points and give something back with info you choose to share with them. That would be the case also with forums, but the usual 'regular' posters are not always fans attending any meetings and/or just use the forum to have a go and knock something that they choose to object to. If those posters were even handed and praised where necessary, did not invent situations and respected those who run speedway and those who choose to support and attend speedway, the scenario in your post would be appropriate. We all know that the BSPA is not perfect, and does not get everything right, but at least they have chosen to try to keep alive a sport with their own time and considerable money in order to do so. Having not to suffer the consequences of their comments, unfortunately some forum members think that others who have the responsibility should do everything that they say. What world do they live in. Fans are divided sometimes as to what should happen so in a lot of cases 50% will be right and 50% will be wrong. But it is someone else, the promotion, who will suffer the consequences and I think it is therefore their prerogative what they do do. Given the history of some forum members, there is no way that promotions are going take the time to read everything on forums. Why should they have to. They are usually busy people and will listen to those fans that have the decency to contact them with their concerns and comments. Why have to take time and read everything written by the 'wrecking balls' on here, and get the flack when you do do that. Several riders and promoters have ventured on here but in practically every case, there are the ones that choose to have a go at them with the result that they don't come back on here. They have better things to do than put their heads on a block, for some constant critic to drop the blade. Appropriately, on a thread headed "Why the Animosity", the guy who has made the most posts happens to be a fan living in Portugal, who hasn't a good word to say about anybody, who shows no respect to others who dare to differ from his opinions, and only occasionally/rarely attends a meeting here when in this country. Step forward Mr BWitcher. Excellent Post Tsunami with which I 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Good post and I agree with all of it. The difference is that you are talking about customers who have contacted you, presumably identifiable, and with whom you can continue discussion and/or agree with or disagree with their comments. Not the same case with forums. Step forward Mr BWitcher. some of the feedback I receive is unsolicited, instant and can be very brutal, however much of it is proactive to keep ahead of ever changing customer expectations and shopping trends... however the biggest impact I ever made to my business was after, by chance, I read the local towns 'forum' page and my business was getting a slating due to level of anti social behaviour taking place in my car park after my business had shut for the day.. the town was a small one and I employed over 500 people and had 30000 customers hence I was a major part of the towns infrastructure which meant constant critical review of everything me and my team did.. reading the 'forum', (full of aliases) I could have dismissed it as 'not my problem' as sales and customer count were both up at the time, however reading the same issue, time and time and time again made me realise something needed to be done as quite simply I decided 'everyone on here cannot be wrong in their belief'.. one even wrote that my company 'must know what's happening yet are doing nothing', simply I didnt as it all took place late night/early morning, yet no one came to meet me 'face to face' to tell me, however reading so many similar comments re the use of my car park as a 'racetrack' prompted me to sort it through the local police... forums can and do often provide 'the truth' or at least the truth in the eyes of the contributor, you will always have serial moaners and WUM's the skill is what to dismiss and what to use to improve things.. and never forget that the ones making the often critical comments on this forum are either still attending or still have an interest in the sport and if changes were made would go back to supporting it.. far too many have left the forum and by definition, the sport, far behind as simply their opinions and constructive criticisms fell on deaf ears... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just seen Bryn asked me the other day why I don't speak to promoters and ask the questions. I have done, I've approached a few promoters and asked questions. But they dont like answering awkward questions. Over the years I have probably sent about 50 emails to the BSPA and got about 5 responses, all generic clap-trap. As for not posting under real names. Most of us on here can be found without too much of an issue, we all know someone who is known by officialdom and it wouldn't be hard to find most of us. In fact a few riders, mechanics and managers have found me at meetings for a chat and 3 promoters (one was technically a CL chairman at the time) have contacted me on the forum for a phone number (or give me a phone number) to speak to them (one of them never did contact me, shame). Last week, David Hoggart posted on here about some of the issue he had been though that week. It was a refreshing post that was interesting as a non=Sheffield fan but I imagine helped the Sheffield fans see some of the frustration he had gone though. It probably took him 10-15 minutes to write, it come across as honest and sincere. Now if promoters could post more along them lines when fans are asking, "why no new signing? why him as a guest? why this, why that?" people would not need to speculate and become cynical. Social media (facebook, twitter, instagram, the BSF) should all be emrabsed by promoters. Used well it's a far greater ally in their bid to get fans in that it will ever be an enemy. They say attack is the bets form of defence, I dont suggest attacking the fans but get in before they do, answer the questions, give an insight into whats going on. Explain the rule when the fans are questioning it and screaming "foul" - most of the time thats not the fans being trouble makers, its the fans just not knowing and thats sometimes down to unwritten rules! Again, write down ALL the rules and the fans stand half a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Appropriately, on a thread headed "Why the Animosity", the guy who has made the most posts happens to be a fan living in Portugal, who hasn't a good word to say about anybody, who shows no respect to others who dare to differ from his opinions, and only occasionally/rarely attends a meeting here when in this country. Step forward Mr BWitcher. Or the guy who has sponsored riders over the years totalling a 5 figure sum, travelled the length and breadth of the country supporting his team, flies back from Portugal when he can to follow his team, doesn't scrounge of the sport by claiming free entrance just because he helps out here and there (another scourge of the sport). Thank you Tsunami for PRECISELY summing up why this sport struggles for both sponsors and support. It's a shame Tsunami that in what was a very constructive thread with a variety of opinions being put forward you have chosen to lower it by launching a personal attack. Edited July 31, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Or the guy who has sponsored riders over the years totalling a 5 figure sum, travelled the length and breadth of the country supporting his team, flies back from Portugal when he can to follow his team, doesn't scrounge of the sport by claiming free entrance just because he helps out here and there (another scourge of the sport). Thank you Tsunami for PRECISELY summing up why this sport struggles for both sponsors and support. It's a shame Tsunami that in what was a very constructive thread with a variety of opinions being put forward you have chosen to lower it by launching a personal attack. I am quite aware of your previous support to the sport. Others have PM'd me about you. Unfortunately you choose once again to attack someone else who does not share your view, then accuse me of lowering the thread. You never change do you. Time and time again a thread is railroaded by you trying to BeLittle opponents, and they come back on and say they are leaving the thread because you cannot debate. We can't all be wrong can we. You can be a decent contributor, and I have 'liked' many of your postings, and you have on mine, but the attack rather than the debate usually ends most decent threads. BTW. I purposely didn't contribute to this thread earlier, as this response was soooo predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Point out where I have 'attacked' someone Tsunami. I have explained why some posts have been inherently wrong, but I have not attacked any individuals. If you're referring to Bryn, he understands I haven't attacked him.. shame you have to let a personal grudge get in the way and barnstorm into a thread again. You will also note that a number of others on the thread have said the same things, but alas, as per normal you don't spot those because everything becomes personal with you. Try reading posts, not the names of the posters. Now if you don't mind there was an interesting discussion taking place before you barnstormed in, but I do thank you for confirming what many on this thread have said... many members (not all) of the BSPA and their lackeys have zero public relations skills. Edited July 31, 2013 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Or the guy who has sponsored riders over the years totalling a 5 figure sum, travelled the length and breadth of the country supporting his team, flies back from Portugal when he can to follow his team, doesn't scrounge of the sport by claiming free entrance just because he helps out here and there (another scourge of the sport). Thank you Tsunami for PRECISELY summing up why this sport struggles for both sponsors and support. It's a shame Tsunami that in what was a very constructive thread with a variety of opinions being put forward you have chosen to lower it by launching a personal attack. If you couldn't see that coming then you need to start reading your own posts before pressing the black button mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you couldn't see that coming then you need to start reading your own posts before pressing the black button mate. Do explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) some of the feedback I receive is unsolicited, instant and can be very brutal, however much of it is proactive to keep ahead of ever changing customer expectations and shopping trends... however the biggest impact I ever made to my business was after, by chance, I read the local towns 'forum' page and my business was getting a slating due to level of anti social behaviour taking place in my car park after my business had shut for the day.. the town was a small one and I employed over 500 people and had 30000 customers hence I was a major part of the towns infrastructure which meant constant critical review of everything me and my team did.. reading the 'forum', (full of aliases) I could have dismissed it as 'not my problem' as sales and customer count were both up at the time, however reading the same issue, time and time and time again made me realise something needed to be done as quite simply I decided 'everyone on here cannot be wrong in their belief'.. one even wrote that my company 'must know what's happening yet are doing nothing', simply I didnt as it all took place late night/early morning, yet no one came to meet me 'face to face' to tell me, however reading so many similar comments re the use of my car park as a 'racetrack' prompted me to sort it through the local police... forums can and do often provide 'the truth' or at least the truth in the eyes of the contributor, you will always have serial moaners and WUM's the skill is what to dismiss and what to use to improve things.. and never forget that the ones making the often critical comments on this forum are either still attending or still have an interest in the sport and if changes were made would go back to supporting it.. far too many have left the forum and by definition, the sport, far behind as simply their opinions and constructive criticisms fell on deaf ears... Thanks for constructive reply mikbv. BTW. A lot of the serial attackers of the sport on here are not regular attenders, and some have no intentions of ever going again, even if they had free passes to try it again. This has been said in their posts so it is not made up by me or anybody else. A lot of the more genuine members have steadily left because of the attacks and tones of debates, and it has been regularly reported that 'so and so' seems to have had enough of the forum. Unfortunately that then increases the %age of the more vociferous members, who do all the negative stuff regardless. Most Promoters do know when something is on here about their club, as there are several, me including, tell their club of anything that can be damaging, so that they can comment or do something about it. We appeared to have a problem with a certain supporter in the crowd at Newcastle last year, and I was involved in identifying and reporting it. What promoters don't do, because of previous occasions, is get involved in an issue with some on here and it just ends up with them being a sitting target by unidentified vociferous 'fans'. Once bitten twice shy. Why should they be attacked unless someone is doing it for their own pleasure or for elevation of status within their pack. Edited July 31, 2013 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks for constructive reply mikbv. BTW. A lot of the serial attackers of the sport on here are not regular attenders, and some have no intentions of ever going again, even if they had free passes to try it again. This has been said in their posts so it is not made up by me or anybody else. A lot of the more genuine members have steadily left because of the attacks and tones of debates, and it has been regularly reported that 'so and so' seems to have had enough of the forum. Unfortunately that then increases the %age of the more vociferous members, who do all the negative stuff regardless. Most Promoters do know when something is on here about their club, as there are several, me including, tell there club of anything that can be damaging, so that they can comment or do something about it. We appeared to have a problem with a certain supporter in the crowd at Newcastle last year, and I was involved in identifying and reporting it. What promoters don't do, because of previous occasions, is get involved in an issue with some on here and it just ends up with them being a sitting target by unidentified vociferous 'fans'. Once bitten twice shy. Why should they be attacked unless someone is doing it for their own pleasure or for elevation of status within their pack. Much of that makes sense Tsunami, although some of the parts you fail to mention is that many of those who no longer post on here, also no longer attend speedway. That's not through posts on this forum, that's through the ineptness of the way the sport is run and in some cases as a direct result of promoters attitudes towards the internet/forums/social media etc. It seems you and the BSPA hide behind an argument of 'its only a few moaners'. You couldn't be further from the truth. The few moaners are the ones who, although disillusioned with many aspects of the sport, still want to see it prosper. You fail to grasp that thousands of others don't stick around. They don't voice their opinion, explain what is wrong. They just STOP going. That is an absolute undeniable fact. Too little is done to identify why they have stopped going. Nobody is saying that promoters should read the forums and implement all the ideas that are offered up here, that would be crazy. What is being said is they shouldn't be publicly attacking forums. There is absolutely nothing to gain from it. You won't get one extra fan through the turnstiles by attacking forums and by definition those who post on them, but you sure as hell will lose a few... so where's the logic? For what its worth, I do believe there have been some improvements of late from a number of clubs who are beginning to embrace technology and what it can bring to them. I fully agree there is little point in promoters getting involved in individual spats, that would be pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just seen Bryn asked me the other day why I don't speak to promoters and ask the questions. I have done, I've approached a few promoters and asked questions. But they dont like answering awkward questions. Over the years I have probably sent about 50 emails to the BSPA and got about 5 responses, all generic clap-trap. As for not posting under real names. Most of us on here can be found without too much of an issue, we all know someone who is known by officialdom and it wouldn't be hard to find most of us. In fact a few riders, mechanics and managers have found me at meetings for a chat and 3 promoters (one was technically a CL chairman at the time) have contacted me on the forum for a phone number (or give me a phone number) to speak to them (one of them never did contact me, shame). Last week, David Hoggart posted on here about some of the issue he had been though that week. It was a refreshing post that was interesting as a non=Sheffield fan but I imagine helped the Sheffield fans see some of the frustration he had gone though. It probably took him 10-15 minutes to write, it come across as honest and sincere. Now if promoters could post more along them lines when fans are asking, "why no new signing? why him as a guest? why this, why that?" people would not need to speculate and become cynical. Social media (facebook, twitter, instagram, the BSF) should all be emrabsed by promoters. Used well it's a far greater ally in their bid to get fans in that it will ever be an enemy. They say attack is the bets form of defence, I dont suggest attacking the fans but get in before they do, answer the questions, give an insight into whats going on. Explain the rule when the fans are questioning it and screaming "foul" - most of the time thats not the fans being trouble makers, its the fans just not knowing and thats sometimes down to unwritten rules! Again, write down ALL the rules and the fans stand half a chance. Good post and I agree with a lot of it. Explanations of some things needs to happen, and I think that is an area that both the BSPA and the SCB could be more forward with. Unfortunately many on here want and expect then to tell everything about a subject(the far end of a fart) but that will never, and sometimes can't be published for either business reasons or confidentiality reasons. I have disagreed with you on many subjects(especially when you claim bollocks when I am telling you something you wanted to know, remember) so you have to be receptive to what others do say. I know you sometimes say things just for effect, but you have proved in the past(Cov & Pet issue) that you are single minded with your views and don't mind going against the pack. It is interesting that you mention a good experience of Hoggy. For you it was a welcome change for a promoter to explain things, but for a 'you' there is always a few who will crucify him for being honest to them and then a promoters says something like 'why do I bother'. So sometimes the responce of a promoter can be based on unhelpful slagging off in previous encounters. So why try to pacify them and get slated for doing so. Promoters are human after all, although if that went to the vote on here I think the vote would be lost. If you couldn't see that coming then you need to start reading your own posts before pressing the black button mate. Beware, he will only try and BeLittle you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 ......SCB......Last week, David Hoggart posted on here about some of the issue he had been though that week. It was a refreshing post that was interesting as a non=Sheffield fan but I imagine helped the Sheffield fans see some of the frustration he had gone though. It probably took him 10-15 minutes to write, it come across as honest and sincere. Now if promoters could post more along them lines when fans are asking, "why no new signing? why him as a guest? why this, why that?" people would not need to speculate and become cynical. Credit where it's due - so did the Coventry promotion but I doubt very much if anything would change some people's opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) I opologise :icon_smile_clown: A delicate situation really,i am sure promoters do take note of people's opinions on here and when told about an issue.I do understand though that it is so easy for me to moan but it is not me taking a risk and putting my capital and livelihood at risk.I can remember going to a Swindon Robins fans meeting in the early 80s when Wally Mawdesley fronted everyone.I come out of that meeting feeling sorry for the bloke he took so much stick that night he must of thought what am i doing in this sport so i am not sure those sort of fans meetings are constructive. Edited July 31, 2013 by sidney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletor Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) A delicate situation really,i am sure promoters do take note of people's opinions on here and when told about an issue.I do understand though that it is so easy for me to moan but it is not me taking a risk and putting my capital and livelihood at risk.I can remember going to a Swindon Robins fans meeting in the early 80s when Wally Mawdesley fronted everyone.I come out of that meeting feeling sorry for the bloke he took so much stick that night he must of thought what am i doing in this sport so i am not sure those sort of fans meetings are constructive. Fair play to you Sydney . a true and loyal fan, always like to hear what you have to say . :icon_smile_clown: Edited July 31, 2013 by The Clown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm afraid Bryn is wrong with regards to forums not being taken seriously. I work for a multi billion $ US company who use forum's for feedback, faxbacks, emails etc. We request people to be anonymous unless they wish to be contacted. It's the right way for any business in the modern World to survive. The modern World is full of high demand and speedway is stuck in the 80's. It is in serious need of change to move forward and I'm afraid to say it but the people in charge are old past it dinosaurs Need to get in the 21st century BSPA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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