Why The Animosity?

[uk_martin]

...there has been a lot of negative comments about the forum from riders and also managers which I was very suprised about in reality.... why you think that this is happening? Are supporters not allowed to have an opinion in a sport...

 

Everyone's allowed an opinion, however, as with most things in life, only the discontented seem to be the ones who voice their opinions. It gives a false impression in the same way that if you read the tabloid newspapers where only bad news makes it to the front pages, you'd think that the world was coming to an end.

[ch958]

I hope you noticed I've 'Liked' a couple of your Posts BW.

 

I'm getting a headache. :rofl:

 

must confess i'm with you bw on this

[Vince]

The governing body hates Social Media/forums as it expose the way some fans, who may, or may not, know anything at all about the business side think the sport is run.. or not run.

 

Would perhaps be more accurate from a Promoters point of view!

 

Firstly I do think that Promoters could make better use of the forum and on some things could be more open than they are.

 

However I also believe that you don't have to read through too many topics to see why they don't take the forum seriously. As an example if you were the Leicester Promoter reading the never ending thread about his club can you honestly say that your lasting impression would be about the sensible comments and constructive criticism offered by the vast majority of posters? If it were me I very much doubt that I would be able to see much past the continued abuse and personal attacks of a very small minority.

 

That minority of posters who fail to credit the BSPA (an organisation which is made up largely of businessmen who have been successful enough to be able invest heavily in a sport they are passionate about) with any sense whatever and are pretty vocal and often abusive in saying so cost this forum any credibility it might ever have within the sport.

 

For sure there are things in Speedway and about the BSPA that drive me nuts and I would like to think I know ways in which they could be improved. However my ideas for Speedway are just that and should they succeed or fail they will not endanger my business and quite possibly risk my families financial security. With those things at risk I too might be reluctant to rock the boat too hard.

 

I understand how the 'say it face to face' comment might appear threatening but equally if people only posted what they would be willing to say to the persons face perhaps their comments might earn some respect. There is no reason to be abusive about people from a position of anonymity and /or distance other than cowardice.

[BWitcher]

I can't agree with any of that Vince (apart from it's their money/risk etc)

 

You simply do not attack your customers, or dismiss their comments out of hand as not 'credible'. Forums such as this give promoters a powerful tool to actually understand some of the gripes and frustrations that their customers have.

 

The BSPA policy is often to ignore that. The results speak for themselves.

 

People only posting what they would say to someones face.. again, antiquated and out of date. Informaton is power, many businesses would love to know what their customers 'real' thoughts were so they could improve their business accordingly.

[stratton]

Would have to agree, i would want to know what other people's opinions were to see it from every angle.But over the years and i mean years this sport has made some baffling decisions and now it is part of the norm will things change? i doubt it.

[Leicester Lion]

 

 

Would perhaps be more accurate from a Promoters point of view!

 

Firstly I do think that Promoters could make better use of the forum and on some things could be more open than they are.

 

However I also believe that you don't have to read through too many topics to see why they don't take the forum seriously. As an example if you were the Leicester Promoter reading the never ending thread about his club can you honestly say that your lasting impression would be about the sensible comments and constructive criticism offered by the vast majority of posters? If it were me I very much doubt that I would be able to see much past the continued abuse and personal attacks of a very small minority.

 

That minority of posters who fail to credit the BSPA (an organisation which is made up largely of businessmen who have been successful enough to be able invest heavily in a sport they are passionate about) with any sense whatever and are pretty vocal and often abusive in saying so cost this forum any credibility it might ever have within the sport.

 

For sure there are things in Speedway and about the BSPA that drive me nuts and I would like to think I know ways in which they could be improved. However my ideas for Speedway are just that and should they succeed or fail they will not endanger my business and quite possibly risk my families financial security. With those things at risk I too might be reluctant to rock the boat too hard.

 

I understand how the 'say it face to face' comment might appear threatening but equally if people only posted what they would be willing to say to the persons face perhaps their comments might earn some respect. There is no reason to be abusive about people from a position of anonymity and /or distance other than cowardice.

It shouldn't be about "earning" respect. The promoters should automatically respect their customers and appreciate that they will express opinions. The method of expressing them isn't important, one is no better than another. It's what is said that should matter.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Leicester Lion

[jimmy jimmy]

I don't know how many clubs have fans forums, but they should be regular.

 

i think one of the main problems is that the EL doesn't appear to be run professionally enough. I think it stems quite simply from the fact that the fixture list seems all over the place. I can't see why it can't be that for a 28 match programme it can't be one match a week for each team plus an extra match in a week when there is a bank holiday. Scheduling for other leagues and events becomes simpler and always have Monday nights for rain off rescheduling.

[Vince]

I can't agree with any of that Vince (apart from it's their money/risk etc)

 

You simply do not attack your customers, or dismiss their comments out of hand as not 'credible'. Forums such as this give promoters a powerful tool to actually understand some of the gripes and frustrations that their customers have.

 

The BSPA policy is often to ignore that. The results speak for themselves.

 

People only posting what they would say to someones face.. again, antiquated and out of date. Informaton is power, many businesses would love to know what their customers 'real' thoughts were so they could improve their business accordingly.

 

I agree that you should not dismiss the forum out of hand and that it could be a useful tool for the BSPA but I can understand how it has come about when you read some of the stuff on here.

 

As far as only posting what you would say to somebody's face I can see nothing antiquated about having a discussion in an adult and reasonable manner on this forum. That is how the vast majority of the people who post on here would carry out a conversation 'face to face'. The majority would not be abusive to somebody stood in front of them, not because they are scared but because most people don't behave that way in normal life. There is nothing wrong with considered criticism and everything wrong with anonymous abuse in my opinion.

 

Nobody ever took criticism well from somebody that was personally abusive, lied or had no idea of the facts behind their criticism. Of course it is about earning respect, both ways, posters on here by making their points in a sensible way and the BSPA by responding to that properly.

[Grand Central]

Let's not get too carried away with the thought that it is the BSF that the promoters hate.

 

It is just the criticism, they hate.

They cannot hack it no matter what the 'forum'.

 

Surely we all remember Len Silver taking great umbridge at the Speedway Star feature on people's views earlier in the year.

 

In the 21st Century dissent just happens to come via electronic media.

For most of the twentieth century it would be via post, the local paper or in person.

 

But promoters have always hated it.

They have never encouraged it.

And they certainly have never listened.

 

Back in Pioneer days it would have been no different.

AJ Hunting, Johnnie Hoskins et al.

They'd have shot down the carrier pigeons.

If they brought critical messages.

 

.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Grand Central

[BWitcher]

I agree that you should not dismiss the forum out of hand and that it could be a useful tool for the BSPA but I can understand how it has come about when you read some of the stuff on here.

 

As far as only posting what you would say to somebody's face I can see nothing antiquated about having a discussion in an adult and reasonable manner on this forum. That is how the vast majority of the people who post on here would carry out a conversation 'face to face'. The majority would not be abusive to somebody stood in front of them, not because they are scared but because most people don't behave that way in normal life. There is nothing wrong with considered criticism and everything wrong with anonymous abuse in my opinion.

 

Nobody ever took criticism well from somebody that was personally abusive, lied or had no idea of the facts behind their criticism. Of course it is about earning respect, both ways, posters on here by making their points in a sensible way and the BSPA by responding to that properly.

 

You have to ask yourself why some of the stuff on here has 'come about'.

 

My point regarding face to face is not in relation to the 'abusive' posts, its more in line with the fact that most people will not be as critical in a face to face situation. On a forum they are far more likely to reveal the real reasons why they are disillusioned with the sport and to ignore such views is to wash money down the drain...

[TesarRacing]

But if promoters were more open, there would be less speculation and less need to hate us/the forum.

Exactly what do you mean by 'open'? Mick Horton held a fans forum at Coventry at a time when the supporters were very critical of the promotion - quite a brave thing to do! By all accounts he came across very well but people still complain. Maybe he will think twice in future!

Edited July 30, 2013 by TesarRacing

[stevebrum]

I think its a pretty open thing that most of the promoters don't want to listen to fans/social media etc as they seem to believe that they can and are doing a better job than the suggestions offered.

Plus of course we have a sport run by people who put their money where their mouth is so feel it is THEIR right to ignore BSF etc.

 

However you look at it the gradual gap of sharing of information about how the sport is run, how the rules are applied or adapted gets wider with every passing season.

 

It doesn't really seem all that long ago that the highlights of the AGM were reading through the changes/rules/decisions made that were well detailed and pretty understandable.

 

Now, hardly anything of the rules except the basics are mentioned or detailed.

[The Doctor...]

Let's not get too carried away with the thought that it is the BSF that the promoters hate.

 

 

But promoters have always hated it.

They have never encouraged it.

And they certainly have never listened.

 

Back in Pioneer days it would have been no different.

AJ Hunting, Johnnie Hoskins et al.

They'd have shot down the carrier pigeons.

If they brought critical messages.

 

.

 

It might be just me, but when i was reading this, i was expecting last line to rhyme

[Bryn]

I'm sorry Bryn, but this is precisely the sort of attitude that has led speedway in the UK to be where it is.. the promoters and their associates line of "why don't you".....

 

"Why don't you" promoters do something pro-active and engage with your fanbase, they don't bite either, but they do pay you the money to keep your businesses alive.

 

Edited to add, that's not an attack on you Bryn, just a general observation of promoters around the country.

 

I'm fully aware of the point you're making "BWitcher" and fully accept that they weren't made as any sort of attack on myself.

 

Several promoters I've known / know have arranged "Fans Forums" with their respective club's fans over the years to hear their views on a variety of matters BUT it is not always feasible and/or economical to do so as potential likely venues do charge rents and sometimes do not want to specially open on normal 'Off nights.'

 

And I'm sure you'll agree that those promoters certainly (and please don't take this personally as I'm using you as an example!) cannot go around on home racenights asking folks attending, "Are you BWitcher who wants to raise a query with me or has a suggestion?" My experience is that they all have enough to do as it is, accepting that we could ALL do more couldn't we?

 

I'm merely suggesting that it might well be it be easier for those posting views under nom-de-plumes on this and other forums to go up to and/or phone and arrange a meeting with the promoter they want to talk to, introduce themselves and ask them at the appropriate time (it might well prove to be there and then!) the necessary question(s) they want answers to or make any suggestions (within reason of course!) to them. Afterall as I pointed out originally, promoter's names are freely known aren't they and they don't bite - many of them like me have false molars!

Edited July 30, 2013 by Bryn

[BWitcher]

More antiquated nonsense I'm afraid Bryn. Continuing to trot out the 'hiding behind a forum name nonsense' is just another example of just how out of touch the promoters and many of those associated with them are in this sport.

 

You don't need to hire rooms or wander around the terraces to engage with your fanbase anymore. That is precisely the point of this thread.

 

I will tell you one thing that most certainly IS easier for folks than both posting on here, or speaking directly to a promoter.... and that's simply not going anymore. But hey, we don't know the names of the thousands who no longer go, so they don't count.

Edited July 31, 2013 by BWitcher

[Bryn]

I'm not going to get into an online spat with you 'BWitcher' - I merely suggested what I considered to a more positive way of ensuring your views were heard /noted and even acted upon if appropriate than posting something on this and/or any other forum under a pseudonym of 'RumplestiltskinsBrother' or the like!

Having said that I still respect the rights of 'RumplestiltskinsBrother' regarding anonymity on this forum but rather than being "afraid" of what I posted earlier 'BWitcher' I'M afraid that the mere thought of face-to-face conversations from those able to partake, seems to fill some with a great deal of trepidation!

Edited July 31, 2013 by Bryn

[BWitcher]

It will be very easy for promoters to have one to one conversations with ALL their fans soon.

 

You STILL fail to get it. Its not up to the customer to ensure their views are 'heard/acted' on. Any decent business would be ensuring that THEY are 'hearing/acting on' the views of their customers.

[Grachan]

I'm not going to get into an online spat with you 'BWitcher' - I merely suggested what I considered to a more positive way of ensuring your views were heard /noted and even acted upon if appropriate than posting something on this and/or any other forum under a pseudonym of 'RumplestiltskinsBrother' or the like!

 

 

The thing is "Bryn", a lot of people use these names on here including some promoters so why knock it. I even remember talking with a promoter of Oxford Speedway who said he posted on here in disguise and deliberately wrote badly so nobody would suspect it was him! So why do you constantly knock it. There are promoters on here reading this stuff, and some of them are joining in the fun!

 

I posted on forums using my real name in the past, but changed when I realised nobody else was doing it. I thought it made me look like I was trying to look self important. But each to their own.

 

I know there are a lot of nonsense posting on here (promoters in disguise perhaps??), but when genuine points are made why should they not be taken into account. Surely it's the quality of the post, not the name of the person who made it, that matters.

 

Fan forums at the stadium for face to face discussion are a good idea though. But clubs tend to get all huffy if anyone criticises them at these and then don't do it again.

[Guest]

The thing is "Bryn", a lot of people use these names on here including some promoters so why knock it. I even remember talking with a promoter of Oxford Speedway who said he posted on here in disguise and deliberately wrote badly so nobody would suspect it was him! So why do you constantly knock it. There are promoters on here reading this stuff, and some of them are joining in the fun!

I posted on forums using my real name in the past, but changed when I realised nobody else was doing it. I thought it made me look like I was trying to look self important. But each to their own.

 

An American motor sport site (sprint cars, midget cars, TQ midget cars and similar) allows its members to enrol under a pseudo-nym but insists they sign messages at the bottom with their correct name and location. The policy has worked smoothly for years.

Doubtless bringing this to light will lead to me now being "identified"? It's a favourite game in some quarters but possibly those who do this have nothing better to occupy themselves with? I am hardly Julian Assange or Bradley Manning of wikileaks fame! A sad joke - being exposed by those who themselves remain anonymous.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Guest

[mikebv]

I work for a company who spends millions each year in receiving feedback from our customers...

 

When we get it, good or bad, we use it by acting on what we got told..

 

What we never never do is find excuses to justify the issue if the feedback wasnt what we wanted to hear as at the time it was given, the person concerned felt they had a genuine reason for complaint..

 

Therefore all me an my team need to do is listen, learn and fix the issue as quickly as possible so as not to 'p' others off the same way.......

 

Due to the wonders of technology, this forum can deliver shedloads of constructive, free, databased feedback with several common issues being regularly challenged by those who contribute, and also many complimentary comments when 'speedway is done well'....

 

If it was my business I would welcome it, and use it to improve my business model, not try and second guess as to any other agenda or even worse take it personally...

 

Be open minded about what your punters are telling you, accept the feedback at face value, and use the info to move your business forwards... .

 

Or alternatively completely ignore it if you think you are already doing a great job...

 

I know what the successful businessman would do...