Oh Dear, Lee Guilty Of Drug Possession

[nw42]

What a great post Moxey,i get the impression a few of the people who are damning of him didn't even see him ride at his best.Ward for me has made a few mistakes SO WHAT still a great speedway rider that's what I judge him on.Again you are so right about Carter he was box office worth the admission money just to see him ride.These people are not infallible they make mistakes they are not robots.

 

He did put a few on the gates Addio (ie) at his best was a very good rider i don't think the promoters worried to much there is always a place for the so called bad guy.

 

I see what you did there Sidney, brilliant mate, just brilliant.

[SCB]

Maybe I am not upto speed... but was Darcy found guilty of anything he was suspected of?

Yes, driving under the influencing, failing to stop, driving without a license and driving an unlicensed vehicle.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ was crucified 2013 years ago. One of his main creeds was forgiveness.

In a parallel situation in these more modern forum times many posters in this thread have managed some akin to that to Michael Lee.

[orion]

Jesus Christ was crucified 2013 years ago.

Yea of course he was

[Guest]

Yea of course he was

 

What a pointless edit of a quote!

[nw42]

Now this thread really has bitten the dust, everyone knows Jesus couldn't gate, you bring him into a thread about the flying hairpin.

 

Where next???

[stratton]

Now this thread really has bitten the dust, everyone knows Jesus couldn't gate, you bring him into a thread about the flying hairpin.

 

Where next???

How good was the flying hairpin,when he destroyed the likes of Muller,Weisbock,Gilgenreiner,Betz, and Michanek not bad eh in the 1981 world long track championship. Edited August 10, 2013 by sidney

[Reviresco]

I got to know Michael quite well in 1982 when Billy Sanders rode for Kings Lynn. Mike was a lovely "boy", was he just 22 at the time? A genius on a bike and with fast bikes too. Great times in the bar, or in Michael's van after meetings at Saddlebow Row, with the two of them chatting about speedway, a sport they both cared about and loved.

 

As with so many top class people in and out of sport, he needed a 'crutch' and unfortunately his chosen crutch was illegal drugs which, without a doubt, stopped Michael achieving all that he should have done as a speedway / long track rider. At age 18, he had the highest average in the British League. Demons in his head that cost him a career, relationships, money and his freedom. There are incidents I know of which are best kept quiet, but led to the end of his long standing relationship with Janet, who had been such a support to him. And of course in 1984 was the 5yr ban by the SCB when riding for Poole at Kings Lynn, despite the three other riders and the KL promoter, giving evidence that his actions had caused no danger.

 

Billy and Michael were great friends, Billy was 3yrs older than Mike, and great rivals, and it was good seeing them ride together in '82. A lot of Kings Lynn fans would've thought that they were enemies, but how far from the truth was that. In the same way, Billy was great friends with Dennis Sigalos who, effectively, took Billy's place at Ipswich in 1981. Billy, waiting for Michael to pass him on turn 2 of Heat 20 in the '83 Individual World Final to enable Michael to finish on 11pts and 3rd on the rostrum, 1pt ahead of Gundersen, Carter & Olsen, showed how strong their friendship was. The same as the way Siggy was seen urging Billy on when Siggy's own chances of winning the '83 Title had gone.

 

I just think its very sad, Michael Lee's story. Whether he'll ever be able to live without his 'crutch' and be happy, I don't know. The 'boy' has done and paid for the crime. Good Luck Michael.

Edited August 10, 2013 by macca56

[stratton]

I got to know Michael quite well in 1982 when Billy Sanders rode for Kings Lynn. Mike was a lovely "boy", was he just 22 at the time? A genius on a bike and with fast bikes too. Great times in the bar, or in Michael's van after meetings at Saddlebow Row, with the two of them chatting about speedway, a sport they both cared about and loved.

 

As with so many top class people in and out of sport, he needed a 'crutch' and unfortunately his chosen crutch was illegal drugs which, without a doubt, stopped Michael achieving all that he should have done as a speedway / long track rider. At age 18, he had the highest average in the British League. Demons in his head that cost him a career, relationships, money and his freedom. There are incidents I know of which are best kept quiet, but led to the end of his long standing relationship with Janet, who had been such a support to him. And of course in 1984 was the 5yr ban by the SCB when riding for Poole at Kings Lynn, despite the three other riders and the KL promoter, giving evidence that his actions had caused no danger.

 

Billy and Michael were great friends, Billy was 3yrs older than Mike, and great rivals, and it was good seeing them ride together in '82. A lot of Kings Lynn fans would've thought that they were enemies, but how far from the truth was that. In the same way, Billy was great friends with Dennis Sigalos who, effectively, took Billy's place at Ipswich in 1981. Billy, waiting for Michael to pass him on turn 2 of Heat 20 in the '83 Individual World Final to enable Michael to finish on 11pts and 3rd on the rostrum, 1pt ahead of Gundersen, Carter & Olsen, showed how strong their friendship was. The same as the way Siggy was seen urging Billy on when Siggy's own chances of winning the '83 Title had gone.

 

I just think its very sad, Michael Lee's story. Whether he'll ever be able to live without his 'crutch' and be happy, I don't know. The 'boy' has done and paid for the crime. Good Luck Michael.

Great post both riders i admired greatly,Sanders until his death was nearly at the top of the tree world class.I was a supporter of Phil Crump so Billy was a massive rival but Billy was some rider tough as old boots classy to.Mike everyone knows his speedway record the people i know in speedway know one has a bad word to say about him.

[Reviresco]

Thanks Sidney and totally agreed.

 

As you say, Bill was a-l-m-o-s-t top of the tree world class. Multi National Champion, 2 x League & Cup double winner with the Witches plus anothe League and Cup win, 1976 World Team Champion, 1980 3rd in the World Individual Final, 1983 2nd in the World individually and as a Pair - a meeting Australia should really have won as Carter & Collins should have been excluded in one heat. Great team rider. Looked after team mates bikes for free. Cared about and loved the sport. Pugnacious and annoying at times, but a great bloke taken from us too early.

 

It was a real shame that Billy and Phil fell out. They could and should have won the World Pairs title between them. Guess it was down to a number of racing incidents in Australia which then got carried over to the UK. Remember once when Phil was riding at Foxhall that he beat Billy during the meeting and threw a 'V' sign at him. Those were the days of 2nd halves and they both qualified for the final. Phil decided that discretion was better than valour and trundled round at the back and then rode is bike straight into the car park, onto the Citroen Safari and head down the A12. I passed him somewhere near Chelmsford, looked over and there he was driving the car still dressed in his leathers. I gave him a wave and a smile as I drove past him. Also remember Billy going into the bar after a meeting at Blunsdon, it might well have been Bill's last ever meeting, and tried to quiten down the rowdy Robins fans by saying, hey, we all love speedway, let's forget our rivalries.

 

Michael of course was one of the few riders to win the World speedway and long track crowns and was virtually unbeatable at times in British speedway.

 

With Regards.

[stratton]

Thanks Sidney and totally agreed.

 

As you say, Bill was a-l-m-o-s-t top of the tree world class. Multi National Champion, 2 x League & Cup double winner with the Witches plus anothe League and Cup win, 1976 World Team Champion, 1980 3rd in the World Individual Final, 1983 2nd in the World individually and as a Pair - a meeting Australia should really have won as Carter & Collins should have been excluded in one heat. Great team rider. Looked after team mates bikes for free. Cared about and loved the sport. Pugnacious and annoying at times, but a great bloke taken from us too early.

 

It was a real shame that Billy and Phil fell out. They could and should have won the World Pairs title between them. Guess it was down to a number of racing incidents in Australia which then got carried over to the UK. Remember once when Phil was riding at Foxhall that he beat Billy during the meeting and threw a 'V' sign at him. Those were the days of 2nd halves and they both qualified for the final. Phil decided that discretion was better than valour and trundled round at the back and then rode is bike straight into the car park, onto the Citroen Safari and head down the A12. I passed him somewhere near Chelmsford, looked over and there he was driving the car still dressed in his leathers. I gave him a wave and a smile as I drove past him. Also remember Billy going into the bar after a meeting at Blunsdon, it might well have been Bill's last ever meeting, and tried to quiten down the rowdy Robins fans by saying, hey, we all love speedway, let's forget our rivalries.

 

Michael of course was one of the few riders to win the World speedway and long track crowns and was virtually unbeatable at times in British speedway.

 

With Regards.

Great to here your views Macca,from what I know limited as it is Phil and Billy got on great for years both i know had huge respect for each other as people and as riders.I think there was a Aussie final when they both clashed and Phil got excluded unluckily Glyn Taylor qualified.He took his place at Belle Vue and Crumpy missed out i am sure they both made up i can remember they had great tussles in the 16 lappers .I have said this before many times before Billy left us he was up there with Hans and Erik and was a massive threat and averaging 10.90/11.10 average and approaching his peak such a shame a great rider John Berry(a great) said the best was still to come. Edited August 10, 2013 by sidney

[Reviresco]

Thanks again Sidney.

 

Phil's home tracks, Mildura and Swindon, were neither of Bill's favourites and I even remember being in the pits at Bunsdon when Bill pulled out of the meeting as he thought the track was too dangerous. You couldn't reason with him when he was in that mood. And the incident when he finished behind a Swindon rider, possibly Martin Yeates, in a heat and a Robins fan came on to the drog track and threw the w*nker sign at Bill. Billy being Billy and an ex amateur boxer waved the fan over to the fence and then threw a right hook whilst still sitting on his bike. The security guys then escorted the 'fan' from the stadium.

 

I'm unsure if it was, but it might have been the '83 Australian Final in Adelaide when Bill got booed by the crowd after Phil was excluded in one heat and Billy did his famous 'get stuffed' acceptance speech on the rostrum. Good times.

 

JB may have said that the best was yet to come and I do not believe in speaking ill of the departed, but I do hold JB responsible in many ways for Bill's sad early departure at the age of 29. JB thought Bill only rode well when he was wearing an Australian race jacket, advised him badly financially and should never of let Bill miss his last programmed meeting at Monmore Green the day before his death, let alone leave him unsupervised on the Tuesday. JB treated Bill badly with his Benefit meeting too, especially considering the service that Bill gave to Ipswich Speedway.

 

I'd written to Bill in Australia and tried to talk with him when he came back for the start of the '85 season, but not living near Ipswich, I never had a chance to stop him doing what he did. Ipswich Town were playing at home that night and friends said that there was a horrible in take of breath in the stadium when the announcement was made. I remember receiving the phone call and then being contacted by his mum and sisters to try and find out why and what had happened. JB didn't even pay to fly Bill's ashes home. Trevor Harding (Uncle Ghost) and I did.

 

Now don't get me on Finn Thomsen, now that was a rider Bill did not get on with. There weren't many, but Finn was definitely one.

 

With Regards.

[stratton]

Thanks again Sidney.

 

Phil's home tracks, Mildura and Swindon, were neither of Bill's favourites and I even remember being in the pits at Bunsdon when Bill pulled out of the meeting as he thought the track was too dangerous. You couldn't reason with him when he was in that mood. And the incident when he finished behind a Swindon rider, possibly Martin Yeates, in a heat and a Robins fan came on to the drog track and threw the w*nker sign at Bill. Billy being Billy and an ex amateur boxer waved the fan over to the fence and then threw a right hook whilst still sitting on his bike. The security guys then escorted the 'fan' from the stadium.

 

I'm unsure if it was, but it might have been the '83 Australian Final in Adelaide when Bill got booed by the crowd after Phil was excluded in one heat and Billy did his famous 'get stuffed' acceptance speech on the rostrum. Good times.

 

JB may have said that the best was yet to come and I do not believe in speaking ill of the departed, but I do hold JB responsible in many ways for Bill's sad early departure at the age of 29. JB thought Bill only rode well when he was wearing an Australian race jacket, advised him badly financially and should never of let Bill miss his last programmed meeting at Monmore Green the day before his death, let alone leave him unsupervised on the Tuesday. JB treated Bill badly with his Benefit meeting too, especially considering the service that Bill gave to Ipswich Speedway.

 

I'd written to Bill in Australia and tried to talk with him when he came back for the start of the '85 season, but not living near Ipswich, I never had a chance to stop him doing what he did. Ipswich Town were playing at home that night and friends said that there was a horrible in take of breath in the stadium when the announcement was made. I remember receiving the phone call and then being contacted by his mum and sisters to try and find out why and what had happened. JB didn't even pay to fly Bill's ashes home. Trevor Harding (Uncle Ghost) and I did.

 

Now don't get me on Finn Thomsen, now that was a rider Bill did not get on with. There weren't many, but Finn was definitely one.

 

With Regards.

I can remember very well the meeting Billy walked out at Swindon the track was very wet very bad.I remember ht 1 Holloway and Crump were on a 5.1 and Crump made a mistake on the last bend and Lee got him.Sanders i first see him in 1972 raw but a talented rookie had a great career and he had a terrific riding style.Chuffed i see quite alot of him was great value and after 1980 i thought he would regress but he didn't he peaked and kicked on god bless him i say.

[Reviresco]

Yes, thanks again Sidney.

 

You summed Bill's career up perfectly there. Not many 16 year old lads arrived from Australia in those days and went straight into a top league side. Bill survived his first two years well. I think I remember his first heat at Foxhall was as a Reserve replacement in Heat 1 and he won it beating the then current World No. 3 Bengt Jansson. Then came out and won Heat 2. Bill's riding style was awesome, pure natural balance and when the full face helmets came in, it added to his image on a bike. Poetry in motion. He was equally as good on water skis.

 

As you say, lost his way a bit in league racing in 1980 and '81 - despite coming 3rd in the '80 World Final, but came back strongly in '82. I remember Bill was asked to guest for the Witches three times in '82 when John Cook went AWOL and, I think, got maximums in each. I was at his house in Werrington County in February '83 when he took a call from Ole Olsen trying to persuade Bill to ride for Coventry as he saw him as his replacement, but Bill was set on returning to Foxhall. I thought it wasn't a good idea, but he had re-learnt how to ride the white line at Liverpool during the Australian season and his riding in '83, '84 and for 1mth of '85 was a delight.

 

His ability to team ride, gate, pass inside or out, cut back were brilliant and he was an honour and a joy to watch. Was at Smallmead when the Witches clinched the league title in '84 and the delight on his face captaining his Witches team was brilliant to see. Then up to Hyde Road for the 1st leg of the Cup Final against the 'unbeatable' Aces. Bill got a maximum on a track that was so frozen it was almost unrideable. Then back to Foxhall for the Sunday afternoon 2nd leg and more joy on the Rooty Hill Rocket's face.

 

Won the Aussie title at the beginning of '85 but sadly never rode at Bradford in the Overseas Final with Stan Bear taking his place. Think Bill was on a 11.5 League Cup average at the time of his death. He had won the Golden Helmet at home riding Richard Knight's bike and then lost it to Bo Petersen at Blunsdon, but we never got to see him try to regain it at the return fixture at Foxhall on the Thursday as, after being withdrawn from the meeting at Monmore on the Monday, the awful news came through on the Tuesday. So many good times, so many stories and memories. Happy Days.

 

Bill winning the Daily Express Spring Classic at Wimbledon as a complete outsider, his ready smile, the '80 and '83 World Finals, the '83 World Pairs Final, his sense of humour, his walking round the Foxhall track on his hands, his passion for speedway, his captaining of the Witches at Eastbourne when John Louis wasn't available and his '84 captaincy will live in the memory forever.

 

Sad that he never made a Wembley World Final - in '81 I was at Brisbane when he won the Austrailian title and in the pits at Liverpool for the Australasian Final when he missed qualification by a point, after being excluded in one re-run heat on the 2min rule after having laid his bike down to avoid Mitch Shirra who had fallen in front of him. Needed to win his last heat to be in a run-off, but Gugliemi wasn't keen to help him, after all that Billy had done for Gugliemi and Gugliemi gated and Bill couldn't find a way past. Both Billy and Phil Crump ended on the same points, but Phil decided not to contest the run-off to decide who would be reserve for the Overseas Final at White City. Think Jason was about 5 years old at the time, running round the pits during practise, never knowing he would one day be a 3 x World Champion. Of course, sadly, Billy's son Dean also took his own life a few year's after Billy.

 

I would be surprised if Billy didn't record double figures at every track he rode at the last time.....

 

Sorry to have gabbled on, particularly on a Michael Lee thread.

 

With Best Regards

Edited August 10, 2013 by macca56

[nw42]

Yes, thanks again Sidney.

 

You summed Bill's career up perfectly there. Not many 16 year old lads arrived from Australia in those days and went straight into a top league side. Bill survived his first two years well. I think I remember his first heat at Foxhall was as a Reserve replacement in Heat 1 and he won it beating the then current World No. 3 Bengt Jansson. Then came out and won Heat 2. Bill's riding style was awesome, pure natural balance and when the full face helmets came in, it added to his image on a bike. Poetry in motion. He was equally as good on water skis.

 

As you say, lost his way a bit in league racing in 1980 and '81 - despite coming 3rd in the '80 World Final, but came back strongly in '82. I remember Bill was asked to guest for the Witches three times in '82 when John Cook went AWOL and, I think, got maximums in each. I was at his house in Werrington County in February '83 when he took a call from Ole Olsen trying to persuade Bill to ride for Coventry as he saw him as his replacement, but Bill was set on returning to Foxhall. I thought it wasn't a good idea, but he had re-learnt how to ride the white line at Liverpool during the Australian season and his riding in '83, '84 and for 1mth of '85 was a delight.

 

His ability to team ride, gate, pass inside or out, cut back were brilliant and he was an honour and a joy to watch. Was at Smallmead when the Witches clinched the league title in '84 and the delight on his face captaining his Witches team was brilliant to see. Then up to Hyde Road for the 1st leg of the Cup Final against the 'unbeatable' Aces. Bill got a maximum on a track that was so frozen it was almost unrideable. Then back to Foxhall for the Sunday afternoon 2nd leg and more joy on the Rooty Hill Rocket's face.

 

Won the Aussie title at the beginning of '85 but sadly never rode at Bradford in the Overseas Final with Stan Bear taking his place. Think Bill was on a 11.5 League Cup average at the time of his death. He had won the Golden Helmet at home riding Richard Knight's bike and then lost it to Bo Petersen at Blunsdon, but we never got to see him try to regain it at the return fixture at Foxhall on the Thursday as, after being withdrawn from the meeting at Monmore on the Monday, the awful news came through on the Tuesday. So many good times, so many stories and memories. Happy Days.

 

Bill winning the Daily Express Spring Classic at Wimbledon as a complete outsider, his ready smile, the '80 and '83 World Finals, the '83 World Pairs Final, his sense of humour, his walking round the Foxhall track on his hands, his passion for speedway, his captaining of the Witches at Eastbourne when John Louis wasn't available and his '84 captaincy will live in the memory forever.

 

Sad that he never made a Wembley World Final - in '81 I was at Brisbane when he won the Austrailian title and in the pits at Liverpool for the Australasian Final when he missed qualification by a point, after being excluded in one re-run heat on the 2min rule after having laid his bike down to avoid Mitch Shirra who had fallen in front of him. Needed to win his last heat to be in a run-off, but Gugliemi wasn't keen to help him, after all that Billy had done for Gugliemi and Gugliemi gated and Bill couldn't find a way past. Both Billy and Phil Crump ended on the same points, but Phil decided not to contest the run-off to decide who would be reserve for the Overseas Final at White City. Think Jason was about 5 years old at the time, running round the pits during practise, never knowing he would one day be a 3 x World Champion. Of course, sadly, Billy's son Dean also took his own life a few year's after Billy.

 

I would be surprised if Billy didn't record double figures at every track he rode at the last time.....

 

Sorry to have gabbled on, particularly on a Michael Lee thread.

 

With Best Regards

 

Don't even think about apologising mate, your posts in this thread have been a revelation, exactly what forums should be about, people sharing their views.

It's great to have someone who clearly knew a bit about what was going on back then, it's not about the headlines, we've all seen those over the years, it's the incidental stuff, tales from the pits etc.

 

Thanks for giving us the insight.

[stratton]

 

 

Don't even think about apologising mate, your posts in this thread have been a revelation, exactly what forums should be about, people sharing their views.

It's great to have someone who clearly knew a bit about what was going on back then, it's not about the headlines, we've all seen those over the years, it's the incidental stuff, tales from the pits etc.

 

Thanks for giving us the insight.

Great stuff Macca really enjoyed it i have learned a great deal today i always think of Norden 83 Lee and Sanders for me one of them should of won the title.But my admiration for Muller is still unquestioned awesome on the day still think Bill should of been harder on Egon in there race but oh well a great rider hard but fair as well. Edited August 10, 2013 by sidney

[Reviresco]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated.

 

All the best

[Tom Turner]

He took Drugs - that is illegal and wrong. END OF!!!

 

So is the music on your mp3 player

 

It's a bit of weed. Come on guys...

 

Oh - and since when do you get Fined up for drinking a couple of pints?

 

You don't. But that doesn't stop people getting completely f**cked, starting fights, causing criminal damage and putting extra strain on the NHS when they need scooping off the floor and their stomach pumped at kicking out time or when their liver fails due to years of alcohol abuse.

 

Anybody who's smoked weed knows the real risks of smoking weed... and that's waking up £20 down because you ordered everything McDonalds had to offer in a munchies frenzy at 1 in the morning!

 

Weed is exactly the same as alcohol except it doesn't turn you violent and it doesn't lower your inhibitions.

 

Wise up.

[phillipsr]

 

 

So is the music on your mp3 player

 

It's a bit of weed. Come on guys...

 

 

 

You don't. But that doesn't stop people getting completely f**cked, starting fights, causing criminal damage and putting extra strain on the NHS when they need scooping off the floor and their stomach pumped at kicking out time or when their liver fails due to years of alcohol abuse.

 

Anybody who's smoked weed knows the real risks of smoking weed... and that's waking up £20 down because you ordered everything McDonalds had to offer in a munchies frenzy at 1 in the morning!

 

Weed is exactly the same as alcohol except it doesn't turn you violent and it doesn't lower your inhibitions.

 

Wise up.

 

Congratulations on being a ignorant idiot. Ive seen 1st hand the damage it can do. Yes Alcohol cam be bad simple fact is its legal weed isnt

[nw42]

Congratulations on being a ignorant idiot. Ive seen 1st hand the damage it can do. Yes Alcohol cam be bad simple fact is its legal weed isnt

 

But he's right, so how about putting your view forward instead of name calling. I'm first hand evidence of the fact that it doesn't damage like you claim, I've many friends who would testify to this.

 

I'm sorry if you've seen someone close to you have problems with drugs, it's not an easy thing to experience, but you're being unfair in making such sweeping statements. Maybe that person would have taken whichever route they chose whether or not they had used cannabis, had they used anything besides cannabis, did they blame cannabis, who did blame cannabis?

Lots of questions, no need to answer, just saying, that's all.

 

Just like the fella said, alcohol causes many more problems in this world than a bit weed ever did, or will.

 

For the record, I'm not a 'free the weed' campaigner of any sort, I'm quite happy just to get on with my own life and leave others to their's but if people like me don't speak up at times like these then too many folk will carry on with their blinkered view of anyone who might enjoy a different type of tipple to their own particular favourite. Each to their own.

 

thanks for listening