Please Go Middlo

[Woz01]

 

so when would you have used the joker then? there are three options:

1. heat 15, which would have meant instructing harris in heat 14 to finish behind woodward, which kinda defeats the purpose of not replacing your second best rider dpoesn't it?

2. or heat 16, when he would ahve been up against hancock anyway, and would have meant him not having an extra ride?

3. or would you have harris for the joker in 14, meaning our strongest rider wouldnt have had a joker ride.

 

which of these options did those criticising middlos use of the tac joker in heat 14 think was best?

(and obviously with hindsight you can argue for option a, but how many actually though that at the time?)

 

and i am NOT a Poole fan

 

If they really wanted to use the joker in heat 14 they should have used Harris and Tai could have had a tac sub ride in the last 4 heats if needed. Seems bizarre taking out your 2nd best rider who got 5 points from his previous 2 rides.

[speedraid]

I completely disagree with those who say, "he didn't have the riders to work with" or he was "on a hiding to nothing". Yes, if we had riden against a full strength Poland, Sweden and Denmark last night-then potentially I wold agree but last night team GB rode against probably he weakest Australian team in the last 20 years, a USA team with realistically one rider, and Latvia!! And finished last!

 

Probably the worst GB performance ever, and the management must take responsibility for it. On paper, team GB had a GP star up there in the top few riders in the world at the moment, as did USA and Australia... Latvia? Bomber is of a similar standard to Batchelor, their averages are pretty similar- not much between them I'd say, USA's Fisher? Not at the same level, Latvia??... Then our supposed problem area... Australia had Woodward and Doyle, both of whom are second strings at best... Danny King's average, riding in the same team is near identical to Doyle's, and Cook is on fire at the moment.. Set a number of track records recently, paid max last night, regulaly beating some of the top boys in the EL.. Finished 3rd in the GB champs and better average in the UK than Woodward...USA??

Latvia??

 

The role of the GB manager is to first select the best team- failed

Then to get the most from that team- failed

Then to use the tactics right- failed

Fail + fail+ fail= FAIL

[salty]

 

Its pretty simple, he was overtaken by the aussie fair and square, then believed that we had better chances being 6 behind than 5 as harris could have 2 further races. Thus, the team orders must have been 'if you're behind the aussies -come 3rd'.

Sure that was the message, but not so sure it was the right move.

Barker dropped a point, which allowed Harris to take a ride in place of Bridger. Given he was in trap 3 against Puodzoks, Woodward and Manizares, it was, at the very best, lose a point to gain two. As it was you could probably argue that by coming second Harris got just a point more than Bridger would have, so a fairly pointless exercise.

 

[orion]

TIME FOR MIDDLO TO GO !! ......... WHY ?

 

Let's face it, he was on a hiding to nothing as only Tai Woffinden is world class and Chris Harris capable of mixing it in this class of field.

 

 

Why because last to the USA and latvia ...keep saying the riders are good enough is ok when you are getting beats by the danes and Poles etc but not when you finish bottom to this lot ..The bottom line is we are better that USA and latvia but got beat by them so the manager has to take a lot of the blame .that team rode well under par last night mixed in some crap tactics .

[JC!]

 

Sure that was the message, but not so sure it was the right move.

Barker dropped a point, which allowed Harris to take a ride in place of Bridger. Given he was in trap 3 against Puodzoks, Woodward and Manizares, it was, at the very best, lose a point to gain two. As it was you could probably argue that by coming second Harris got just a point more than Bridger would have, so a fairly pointless exercise.

 

I totally agree, but was explaining the reasoning. It also must have placed a seed doubt in Barkers mind as to whether to chase the leader down or make sure not to come second when overtaken. As someone pointed out earlier this manoeuvre also carried the risk of a disqualification which wouldn't have mattered to usa earlier given they were last but would have damaged our chances (albeit the horse had bolted by then anyway).

[Haza]

Point is Middleditch should have been sacked immediately for his comments on Ward in the winter .

 

[xmas]

Maybe but the people on here who are naming the next GB boss and he us no angel at all

 

Point is Middleditch should have been sacked immediately for his comments on Ward in the winter .

[gary moore]

I just get the feeling that Middledick is there for the `glory` and really couldnt give a stuff about team GB and british riders in general?

Rb Lyons had a vision for the future but the BSPA kicked it out so that was it for him!!

 

So what do they do? wheel out Middledick again who, it seems ,to me just grovels around the bspa and does what hes told??

 

If he didnt then surely he wouldnt have taken back the job?

Just my thoughts.

[pandorum]

The essential point of this is really not Middlo to go but whomsoever replaces him to be allowed to do the job all year round rather than as a week in the summer.

This is why Lyons packed up. He wanted to use the position to nurture a team and develop young riders.

 

Middleditch was England manager for a week.

He had a poor pool of riders with little or no experience other than here in the UK.

Cook was offered a chance on a track he should have done well on and was rubbish. Kennett was given another chance and was rubbish.

He tried to bring in some people who had experience of foreign tracks and they were rubbish.

Even his old war horse Harris let him down.

 

The idea that Worrall would have been the saviour is both ridiculous and moot.

 

It's the system we employ which lets us down most.

 

Bring in Rosco/Havvy/Loram/uncle Tom Cobbly and they will have the same problem.

 

Unless England can develop not only young talent but a team spirit they are doomed to constant failure.

That involves an investment by the BSPA in Englands future.

 

Sadly the BSPA are not prepared to invest. Lyons had a plan. They were not interested.

Middlo was a safe choice because unlike Lyons he tows the line.

 

Will anyone want the job when they know that they will never be allowed to actually do it?

 

Even when we had Young England tests and developed young riders we never really tore up any trees in world cup but it obviously would help especially if we had them abroad. But who pays for it?

The BSPA won't.

 

Ultimately it is down to money and we can have the best management team available and still fall short due to lack of investment cash.

 

Yes Middlo made some poor decisions this time round both on team choices and tactics. He should go.

But probably the only replacement to him that will likely want to do the job the way the BSPA want it done is HIM.

[the brick]

Not sure what all the fuss is about, Team GB ride in one FIM event a year that lasts for a week and at most ride only three matches in that week. I would rather see more league clubs than GB medals any day.

[Nutz]

Think most people are missing the point here...

It shouldn't be an argument about if Cook or Worrall or King would've scored more than Bridger or Barker (or even Harris for that matter)... It's the fact of how do we plan for the future when guys like this aren't given a chance?

 

Before last night, I would've said Bridger was a foolish choice - but after last night, maybe he is worth a second chance? He seems to have matured ever so slightly (not enough yet though) and he maybe can have a say in the future... He's a racer and needs to know when to consolidate rather than go for the blasts... Barker on the other hand, enough is enough. He ain't going to make it and shouldn't have been in Prague.

 

We're not going to win the SWC in the next 2 or 3 years until guys like Cook, Worrall etc. are given the opportunities to race on the big stage. If we'd have made the final last night, we'd be absolutely embarrassed in the final against the Poles and the Danes... All 3 teams were there for the taking last night and with the right selection we could've made it. But it's all about building for the future and that's what Middleditch isn't doing.

 

Another thing... Unfortunately everyone seems to be talking about Woffinden and Harris being nailed on in the world cup squad. Woffy yes... But why now is Harris an automatic choice? He's not on form this year and has been suspect for quite some time. He's not the future of British Speedway whereas Woffy, Cook, Worrall, Ellis, (Bridger), King can be... In my opinion, Woffy should be the only automatic choice and the rest made up of who's on form until we've got a squad that can compete with the Latvians of this world!!!!

 

Gotta remember that you've got to throw Sweden and Russia into the pot as when they have full teams, they'll also bury us with current squad selections... We're a long way off competing with Poland/Russia/Sweden/Australia/Denmark and are currently a sub standard nation who are questionably the best of the rest (Germany/Finland/Latvia etc...)

 

The buck stops at the top and I for one would like to see someone in charge with some drive to bring new riders through onto the world stage. No-one would be sitting here complaining if we'd have scored 28pts last night with a line-up of Woffinden, Barker, King and Cook... They'd have been saying well done for trying to bring in new talent and faces.

[barrow boy]

I am not Middleditch fan but to be fair he has no tools to play with, why not ? Because the EL clubs (his more than most) do naff all to help British riders and this will mean we will struggle for years, its been coming but nothing is done

 

I know many will say its about their clubs and therefore don't care but then why come on and complain when the National team struggle. Can't have it both ways

 

I see tonight both Swindon and Peterborough official Twitter accounts posting praising their riders for their contribution in the meeting tonight. Sadly they are celebrating the fact this put Team GB out of the competition. Maybe this sums up British Speedway when BRITISH clubs are more interested in their Australian and US riders than the fact hat GB has gone out of the competition.

 

You would hope British fans would want to see the overseas riders in their clubs fail miserably in the World Team Cup

 

Have I got that wrong ?

 

No, you are 100% correct. We have only one world class rider who is a product of Australia's junior riders programme who thankfully elected to become a Brit when he could have opted to be an Aussie for international purposes. Some serious policy changes have to be put into place if we are ever to become a leading speedway nation again which the promoter's who run the sport will not see as their main priority because of their financial involvements.

[wjm]

I would move him on because it needs something fresh, but the riders at his disposal are just that bit short.

 

Take Cook, he is a hell of a rider at PL level, his progress has been pretty stunning, if he keeps up like he has he will be mentioned in the same breath as your Wilson, Stonehewer and Carr like riders.

 

And he has made the step up to EL, but that step isn’t what it used to be, whereas the step between EL and GP/SWC is still a massive one.

 

I am quite surprised by how much of a struggle it has been for Cook, not just at Kings Lynn he wasn’t that hot at Cardiff either.

 

Cook is probably like a few Brits (and to a lesser extent guys like Lindgren and Adams were for a while) they show their full hand to often in league racing IMO.

 

It is to their credit that they do it, but your Barkers, Cooks and Bridgers are at their maximum 100% of the time, they will put the same effort in at Redcar, Berwick and Eastbourne as they will in Prague, where as you wonder if some of the guys from the Continent do.

 

A huge part of the step from good league rider to good SWC/GP rider seems to be knowing how to pace out your season and when to turn your form on, find that other gear.

 

It must be perplexing for guys like Harris to pass a Bjerre or even Pedersen with such ease and regularity in the EL (although perhaps not this season) but then have them take care of them in the GP with ease. Even a Cook v Ljung battle, I would back Cook to leather Ljung at Armadale in the EL, but perhaps not in the WC, where these guys seem to have the Brits sussed as the Brits just show their tricks to often IMO.

 

Arguing over King, Cook, Kennet, Barker and Bridger, I just can’t get as involved as some and say “if it had been Cook or King” because they would more than likely have been making the same daft mistakes.

 

Barker in Heat 17 was a frustration though, just silly mistakes that you can’t make at the top level, he was in a hell of position coming out of turn 1, I wouldn’t back many top riders to blow it from the position he was in.

Edited July 19, 2013 by wjm

[screm]

Although I think Middlo got his tactics wrong last night,it seem laughable to suggest theres anyone else that could've done any better.Does anyone really believe that Rossiter,Havelock and co could get anymore from our riders.Lets face facts our riders,apart from Woffinden, just aren't up to the job,and we are being overtaken by nations who on the face of things have much more meager budgets than us.

[SGP]

Scott didn't want to ride Gav, and that had nothing to do with Middlo.

 

HE did say Middlo and the BSPA - It's the BSPA as to why Scott didn't ride.

[TheReturn]

Although I think Middlo got his tactics wrong last night,it seem laughable to suggest theres anyone else that could've done any better.Does anyone really believe that Rossiter,Havelock and co could get anymore from our riders.Lets face facts our riders,apart from Woffinden, just aren't up to the job,and we are being overtaken by nations who on the face of things have much more meager budgets than us.

 

You are missing the point. A great manager is a master motivator. In his selection and dropping tactics alone, Middlo came up short and failed. Every time the TV panned to the Team GB team in the pits at Kings Lynn and last night, I did not see much motivational talking going on.

 

Rosco is not my cup of tea, but he does seem to do more with the motivational side of mnagement that Middlo. Look at Poole, they win by buying the best riders, and from what I can tell, the promotor chooses the riders, more than Middlo.

 

Yes we are short of talent, and anothe rmanager may not have had the same result, but it is fair to say that the Team Management made some obvious mistakes this week.

[Arson fire]

Then again Nichols isn't good enough also!!... Until we run the sport properly in our country then we will always be also rans.... The Bspa seriously need to look into our failings and to why we have a lack of genuine talent coming through.... It's ok for them to throw them in at club level and tell them how fab they are, but to mix with the best we need to do something different.

Maybe this should be of paramount importance at the annual conference rather than the petty squabbling we've heard over the years.

Buck stops with them and noone else.

[Bruiser McHuge]

_{he should go for basically bringing in Barker and Bridger...possibly the most ludicrous decision in years....so a new face is needed for sure...}

 

_{but there needs to be more Test matches...not just a match a season around a tiny track in the UK...matches abroad against European teams ..experience is needed......Peter Collins got over 130 England caps....a rider would need to ride for about 80 years to get that number of caps these days}

 

_{but yes Middleditch must go.}

[Gavan]

TIME FOR MIDDLO TO GO !! ......... WHY ?

 

Let's face it, he was on a hiding to nothing as only Tai Woffinden is world class and Chris Harris capable of mixing it in this class of field.

 

Perhaps if we had Scott Nicholls on a bike instead of on a mike or Daniel King in Czecho instead of at home we may have scored a few more ...... who knows ! but to be fair Lewis Bridger tried hard and gained two good second places before his crash while Ben Barker on his own bikes was not on the pace and was a mistake to be bought in.

 

 

We put out the best we have (or Middlo thought we had) while Australia, Sweden, Russia and Poland went into the qualifiers with big names missing and we still couldn't match them let alone beat them. Could Phil Morris, Alun Rossiter, Pete Adams or Gary Havelock have selected a stronger team ..... unlikely.

 

 

I will however question the tactics. Why take out Chris Harris who after a mechanical problem had scored 5 points from his next two races while Ben Barker was given all five programmed rides. Bomber should have been kept in and to put Tai in as a tactical in a race containing the awesome Greg Hancock was a mistake.

 

Maybe use Bomber as the Joker ? ..... probably not as that would have stopped Tai coming in to replace Barker soon after and possibly then used the Joker.

 

 

Overall Australia deserved the win as they had four riders in the mix with obviously Darcy way out ahead. Latvia deserved credit for a great performance from a young team who will get better while USA again relied to heavily on Greg Hancock but at least had Ryan Fisher bacing him up this time. Wonder what they would have scored had Billy Hamill and Sam Ermolenko had been riding ?

 

 

So overall. Could anyone have done much more for Team GB last night than Middlo did. Answer is No.

why do people keep saying doesnt matter who is in charge we couldnt have done better! i agree but it isnt about 'doing better'

 

Why then do football teams who are struggling sack there manager then? they will still have the same players and wont suddenly become Man United overnight! They get rid of the manager because the team and tactics arent working. The personnel dont quite gel. Sometimes with a new manager the same 11 players perform better. Middlo clearly isnt the most tactically aware manager and i cant really see any spirit there. Im not saying a new team manager will suddenly see us up there with the poles and danes we dont have the riders thats obvious but to say Middlo is doing ok because of the riders at his disposal is a very short sighted view.

 

What people are saying here is that none of the bottom 6 in the premiership should sack there managers because the new manager will only have the same players to work with!! ok in football you can bring in a new player but a struggling team isnt going to get a Messi or a Ronaldo same as Team Gb isnt going to find a Ward or Pedersen.!

 

A new manager will bring fresh ideas and hopefully boost morale.

 

Times up for Middlo and let someone else have a crack

[The Know]

Maybe Middlo didnt make the best of calls now and then but who should take over ? No one would do any better with the dreadful riders we now have. Team GB is not a world class team anymore, Tia yes but the rest just are not good enough in any shape or form as shown being beaten by very poor teams.

Middlo still best for the job but if i was he i wouldnt want it the the above reason.