Star Lady Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 You convieniently missed out the Rob Lyon bit. Another example of commenting when and what it suits... I think you'l find that Neil is all for our boys to go over to the big tracks for international test matches. Yeh, but had Lyon tried that this year you would have needed binoculars to see our riders and scores.. unless you are happy to see that. But no, ang on, you'd moan about that if we were tailed off.. OK I've quoted it in full now as you were too obtuse to realise that had Rob Lyon been allowed to continue he would have blooded the younger riders before this year therefore they would have had more experience and maybe we wouldn't have needed the binoculars or we may even have had a few more riders to choose from. But no the authorities didn't like the fact that he had an opinion they didn't like so went back to the safe pair of lips of Mr Middleditch. Now whilst I'm sure he is a very nice guy, as is Mr Lyon by the way, his record at international level is nothing short of abysmal. Club records count for nothing at this level and that applies to managers as well as riders. As others have said there are many club managers with excellent records of getting the most out of riders. There are also unproved managers who have proved they can get the best out of riders - Billy Hamill and Mark Lemon to name just 2. All I'm saying is it's time to dump the old guard - riders and management and give others the chance. If that means we have GB riders trailing at the back in some races will that be so very different to what happened this year? We are never going to agree cos I don't view the world thro brown coloured glasses, mine are untinted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 It makes me sad to read alot of this, as someone whos watched speedway since the sixties, yes the manager has made some errors of judgement but as with all British Sport our riders are left to pay for everything. As said our youngsters cant supply equipment or expertise on a par with the likes of all the GP riders so how the hell do you expect them to win races against them , oh hang on a minute ill just get my go cart and take on the F1s today, wake up Great? Britian you need to spend some money on your team that are representing you, why do we win Horse show jumping huh Because our rich Daddies by the best Horses and Give their children riding lessons from aged zero onwards. In speedway we are the poor trying to race against the rich .No can do,who ever manages OR rides for that matter.And as usual some knock our young up and coming talent instead of encouraging them and sticking your hand in your pocket and giving them a helping hand . And before anyone says it yes i have, but im afraid im not a russian billionaire but i do know that our riders need help so stop knocking them and get behind them. Thank you. Very well said. But i can assure you this will go in one ear and out the other with the Managers on here... OK I've quoted it in full now as you were too obtuse to realise that had Rob Lyon been allowed to continue he would have blooded the younger riders before this year therefore they would have had more experience and maybe we wouldn't have needed the binoculars or we may even have had a few more riders to choose from. But no the authorities didn't like the fact that he had an opinion they didn't like so went back to the safe pair of lips of Mr Middleditch. Now whilst I'm sure he is a very nice guy, as is Mr Lyon by the way, his record at international level is nothing short of abysmal. Club records count for nothing at this level and that applies to managers as well as riders. As others have said there are many club managers with excellent records of getting the most out of riders. There are also unproved managers who have proved they can get the best out of riders - Billy Hamill and Mark Lemon to name just 2. All I'm saying is it's time to dump the old guard - riders and management and give others the chance. If that means we have GB riders trailing at the back in some races will that be so very different to what happened this year? We are never going to agree cos I don't view the world thro brown coloured glasses, mine are untinted. Those glasses look a little off colour to me, with your MR Lyon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Those glasses look a little off colour to me, with your MR Lyon... He is not my Mr Lyon, I merely used the courtesy title Mr for him as I did for Mr Middleditch in that post. Incidentally my glasses are untinted, my optician says tints are not too good for the eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Orion, why do we have the RIGHT to beat the USA or Latvia?. You tell me 4 riders who would have done better?? Because they are better than what they have ...no need for other riders as the four picked were easy good enough to come second and maybe first in the race off, the trouble was due to good management and team spirit they rode well above par unlike the GB who due poor management by middlo rode well below par . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Because they are better than what they have ...no need for other riders as the four picked were easy good enough to come second and maybe first in the race off, the trouble was due to good management and team spirit they rode well above par unlike the GB who due poor management by middlo rode well below par . you're right, they were better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelcroucher Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 What speedway needs is for the BSPA to sort it out. Its not always the manager that has to go but yes Middlo has to go as well as Harris. Scotty should of been to ride in the Europen side then he would of been in the team. I was at the race off and UK just didnt look like a team they havent done for quite a few years. What we need is for the BSPA to stand up and see what they are doing wrong. Its not rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 So Middlo (or anyone else) is not capable of doing anything with Team GB as they're basically a bit rubbish? So why does he bother? In fact, if the manager cannot change anything, why bother at all? Sack them all. They're not needed. Either Middlo is a great manager or managers are pointless in which case Middlo is pointless. As for riders not getting on, Batch doesn't get on with the Aussies. Hans & Nicki have always had an "interesting" working relationship (ie, they dont like each other). Ive had to do my job with people I don't like, we've all been there, done it and got the t-shirt. But when you're aiming for one common goal any person difference should be over come. When did Middlo last arrange a full strength GB vs XXXX test meeting/series? We all say our riders are inexperienced, haven't ridden abroad so why have we not had a meeting against the Czechs? Why not have a tour of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Latvia, Australia and then have them come here. Dont give me bull about not fitting it in, the Poles have a few Polish meetings a year and this is international speedway, it would take priority over Poole vs Lakeside or whatever other EL meeting is taking place that night. Middlo once quit as he wasn't happen. Rob Lyon took over with a plan (with Jim Lynch in the middle) and the BSPA blocked it and got in the way, so he quit. Then in come Middlo to save the BSPA/SCB. He should have refused the job, everyone should have refused the job until the BSPA/SCB got their act together. Middlo coming in meant Rob Lyon had no way of getting things sorted as Middlo charged in to save their backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary moore Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 So Middlo (or anyone else) is not capable of doing anything with Team GB as they're basically a bit rubbish? So why does he bother? In fact, if the manager cannot change anything, why bother at all? Sack them all. They're not needed. Either Middlo is a great manager or managers are pointless in which case Middlo is pointless. As for riders not getting on, Batch doesn't get on with the Aussies. Hans & Nicki have always had an "interesting" working relationship (ie, they dont like each other). Ive had to do my job with people I don't like, we've all been there, done it and got the t-shirt. But when you're aiming for one common goal any person difference should be over come. When did Middlo last arrange a full strength GB vs XXXX test meeting/series? We all say our riders are inexperienced, haven't ridden abroad so why have we not had a meeting against the Czechs? Why not have a tour of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Latvia, Australia and then have them come here. Dont give me bull about not fitting it in, the Poles have a few Polish meetings a year and this is international speedway, it would take priority over Poole vs Lakeside or whatever other EL meeting is taking place that night. Middlo once quit as he wasn't happen. Rob Lyon took over with a plan (with Jim Lynch in the middle) and the BSPA blocked it and got in the way, so he quit. Then in come Middlo to save the BSPA/SCB. He should have refused the job, everyone should have refused the job until the BSPA/SCB got their act together. Middlo coming in meant Rob Lyon had no way of getting things sorted as Middlo charged in to save their backside. What a great post!!!! Couldnt agree more with what you say. I said before,I get the impression that middledick only wants the `power`? Hes NOT interested in the Brits and certainly not interested in the future of British Speedway because if he did,he would of told the BSPA to sod off and get there act together but he wont. Rob and Jim could have done something no doubt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) When did Middlo last arrange a full strength GB vs XXXX test meeting/series? We all say our riders are inexperienced, haven't ridden abroad so why have we not had a meeting against the Czechs? Why not have a tour of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Latvia, Australia and then have them come here. Dont give me bull about not fitting it in, the Poles have a few Polish meetings a year and this is international speedway, it would take priority over Poole vs Lakeside or whatever other EL meeting is taking place that night. I totally agree. Whilst Middlo may not have the power to force a promoter to host an international meeting, he can certainly put some pressure on the BSPA by talking to the media saying that is what he wants. On top of some awful management last week, the biggest concern for me is the lack of direction. Somewhere I read him quoted as saying the SWC is no place for kids, yet when and where will they get interantional experience? He brings in Cook then drops him, which makes no sense to me. The way he dropped him appears to be dubious too judging by Cook's outburst. We were never going to win it this year, or next year, but I think we would all be more forgiving if there was a clear plan and a clear direction to blood two youngsters in the SWC alongside Tai and maybe Harris/Nicholls if their form picks up. Ideally, a meaningful test series would be helpful for the sport, maybe an Ashes test series against the Aussies every two seasons, one here, then 18 months later in the Aussie Summer. Make it meaningful, make it passionate, make it mean something. Note: We would lose the Ashes for the next few years, but maybe that is good, it gives the BSPA a target to aim for, and improve to regain the speedway Ashes. Edited July 22, 2013 by TheReturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peatbog Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 When Rob Lyon quit Middlo did not charge in as quoted by SCB. Middlo reluctantly took the job under pressure from the BSPA because nobody else would do it. Who will do the job in his place ? whoever takes it on can only use the riders available and they are either near the end of their career or still in the Premier League. There are some good riders coming up through the ranks but it will need 4 or 5 years before they are good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 When Rob Lyon quit Middlo did not charge in as quoted by SCB. Middlo reluctantly took the job under pressure from the BSPA because nobody else would do it. Who will do the job in his place ? So maybe if no one would do it, the BSPA or whoever would have listened to those that wanted a youth policy. Your post just suggests that Middlo does not have the courage of his apparent (according to Starman 2006) convictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Why dont we just admit were crap at speedway now. Have been for a while and know doudt in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 When Rob Lyon quit Middlo did not charge in as quoted by SCB. Middlo reluctantly took the job under pressure from the BSPA because nobody else would do it. Who will do the job in his place ? whoever takes it on can only use the riders available and they are either near the end of their career or still in the Premier League. There are some good riders coming up through the ranks but it will need 4 or 5 years before they are good enough. So people decided it wasn't working. They all refused the job, they wnated change. The BSPA were starting to panic, change was going t have to happen then Middlo who is inspirational, wonderful and all other superlatives that starman can come up with eventually buckled under immense presure and took back the job that he once quit as he didnt like the way things were going. What had changed in that 3-4 years he wasn't doing the job? Nothing. So Middlo has no integrity, a bit of preseure and he changes his mind. Middlo seems to get upset about the critisism (read his twitter) and doesn't agree with the way things are done but is still doing the job, WTF?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Why dont we just admit were crap at speedway now. Have been for a while and know doudt in the near future. We are, and will be, and pretty much have to start from a blank canvass, other than Tai, who is after all the world number two right now. For starters, if I was involved in the BSPA I would be asking Tai what he feels we need to do and who we need to bring in. I would listen hard, and I would then ask someone else, like a Jason Crump for example and again I would listen hard, then I would talk to the last British World Champion, like Mark Loram and again I would listen hard. But do the BSPA do this? Hope so.. doubt it. Will the BSPA do this? Hope so.. doubt it. Edited July 22, 2013 by TheReturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary moore Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 When Rob Lyon quit Middlo did not charge in as quoted by SCB. Middlo reluctantly took the job under pressure from the BSPA because nobody else would do it. Who will do the job in his place ? whoever takes it on can only use the riders available and they are either near the end of their career or still in the Premier League. There are some good riders coming up through the ranks but it will need 4 or 5 years before they are good enough. Middlo took it `under pressure` what pressure would that be then? How can they force him to do it?? Dont be daft, we know he should have told em to sod off,but Im afraid hes another yes man!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) So people decided it wasn't working. They all refused the job, they wnated change. The BSPA were starting to panic, change was going t have to happen then Middlo who is inspirational, wonderful and all other superlatives that starman can come up with eventually buckled under immense presure and took back the job that he once quit as he didnt like the way things were going. What had changed in that 3-4 years he wasn't doing the job? Nothing. So Middlo has no integrity, a bit of preseure and he changes his mind. Middlo seems to get upset about the critisism (read his twitter) and doesn't agree with the way things are done but is still doing the job, WTF?! Well lets face it, ther's nobody else out there that could do better given the riders at Neils disposal. As i said, i was very pleased with Bridgers attitude, and Barker did ok, but you can't turn selling platers into Derby horses, no matter what you feed them. We are patiently not good enough, and still won't be in 2-3-4-5 years time.. Why, because it all revolves around money facillities abillity and the biggest of all,,,Ambition... Edited July 22, 2013 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well lets face it, ther's nobody else out there that could do better given the riders at Neils disposal. As i said, i was very pleased with Bridgers attitude, and Barker did ok, but you can't turn selling platers into Derby horses, no matter what you feed them. We are patetently not good enough, and still won't be in 2-3-4-5 years time.. Why, because it all revolves around money facillities abillity and the biggest of all,,,Ambition... I'm no equine expert but if you get them as yearlings you can at least train them to do things the correct way. Why can you still not see that we agree there are not the riders about at present. What the rest of us are advocating is that Middlo should have realised this years ago, when everyone else did and done something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Middlo took it `under pressure` what pressure would that be then? How can they force him to do it?? Dont be daft, we know he should have told em to sod off,but Im afraid hes another yes man!!! Er one thing Neil is not, a yes man.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well lets face it, ther's nobody else out there that could do better given the riders at Neils disposal. As i said, i was very pleased with Bridgers attitude, and Barker did ok, but you can't turn selling platers into Derby horses, no matter what you feed them. We are patiently not good enough, and still won't be in 2-3-4-5 years time.. Why, because it all revolves around money facillities abillity and the biggest of all,,,Ambition... And that is what a good manager can do, instill that in players/riders lacking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Well lets face it, ther's nobody else out there that could do better given the riders at Neils disposal. As i said, i was very pleased with Bridgers attitude, and Barker did ok, but you can't turn selling platers into Derby horses, no matter what you feed them. We are patiently not good enough, and still won't be in 2-3-4-5 years time.. Why, because it all revolves around money facillities abillity and the biggest of all,,,Ambition... And what do the Latvians and the Americans have? The Americans don't have 4 professional riders! They had to use a novice and still beat us, yes, we lost to a 3 man team! What about the Latvians? We do have more than them, we should be able to beat them. Is Woodward really better than Bridger and Barker? Honestly? So why did he outscore them both, one his own? C'mon, this is Middlo who made Holder, Ward, KK, Cegeilski and Andersen GP riders, why can't he do it any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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