Grand Central Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I amazes me speedway fans are so naive. What other sport seeds an utterly useless team to a final of a 'sporting' competition in the hope it increases the crowd. It's like the FA Cup seeding AFC Wembley to the final because they are local SWC is now looking at a pairs competition to liven things up and who knows what rules will be introduced for that. I just watch it and go with the flow as it's cracking entertainment. More power to the SWC and it's jokers. If all speedway was this entertaining maybe the sport would not be in such a mess. I can't work out what was naive. Sarcasm. World-weary cynicism. Even contempt. perhaps. And when you ask about the pairs. One thing is for certain it won't be for teams of TWO. That would be a plain stupid idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Tac subs in the WTC are fine, Jokers are not and for the very same reason they should not be used in league racing but we all know the promoters will never get rid of them because its a way keeping scores artificially close without having to pay the riders more money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I don't care how close it helps the scores stay, the joker is a pathetic ruling that penalises the team that is winning. Show me any other sport where a successful team is constantly penalised (i.e. averages, league title team usually needs to break it up. Joker last night, Denmark did not get to use it). Joke rule for a joke sport. Lets get back to basics... four riders racing for points (not riding to drop points to bring in the joker). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 With the Joker and Golden Double, we are seeing stage-managed speedway racing. How much of the actual racing is real; when a rider passes someone, is it because the other rider's team benefits for letting that rider passed? Speedway doesn't need this joke scoring system at this time. It may be good for TV companies and fans who like novelty pop records also, but to genuine speedway fans the rule just sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 That's why its ok to use it in speedway!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwaysliders Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Well ,as this was the speedway team world cup final,i almost felt i had to stick it out and watch it,rather then go with the rest of the family .I THOUGHT I HAD MADE THE CORRECT CHOICE,THE WHOLE HOUSE TO MYSELF!!!,i thought i would relax and enjoy the best teams in the world fight it out in a great nights racing!!!HOW WRONG COULD I HAVE BEEN?I should have taped the meeting and zapped through when i came in,that would have taken 20 minutes max to watch and i could have enjoyed the night out with the family,not being stubben which caused friction!!!How can this be world" event when Russia cant be asked,scott nicholls cant be asked,middlo cant be asked!!(maybe he went to cheer on magic and cheer on poland!!) What a farce of a meeting and next time one dire speedway fan wont stay in to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iand Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 People a while ago were talking about the new Manchester National stadium being used for SWC final. Brits seeded straight to the final. Would will be arguing for it or against it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 If we had a referee who made a correct decision then poland wouldnt have had the chance to use the joker, kasprzak would have come third instead of feigning a breakdown and poland would still have won, the joker is there to compensate for crap decisions,if the czechs were in contention the decision may have been different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 The Bjerre thing happened after the joker was played... Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 People a while ago were talking about the new Manchester National stadium being used for SWC final. Brits seeded straight to the final. Would will be arguing for it or against it? I would still be 100% against it, because I am commenting from my head, not my heart. If Team GB wanted to race a World Cup Final in Manchester, then they have to earn the right, and if they went on to win it, I hope and think it would mean even more because they qualified the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGER69 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I think Poland winning will be good for speedway The use of the (joker) is controvertial as it is at the moment and may need amending in some way or chucking out altogether. Seeding the hosts through to the final is all about money. Trying to bring in a large crowd Does not work unless the home team has a chance of winning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 What a B****Y JOKE (no pun intended) the Speedway World Cup has turned out to be. Once again we are subjected to yet another case of the BEST Team losing. Denmark were streets ahead of any other Team - but - because of the B****Y STUPID 'Joker' System they LOST. No the wonder Speedway is a MINOR Sport - it is PATHETIC!! What can you do when the 'Powers that be' seem hell bent on destroying any little bit of CREDIBILITY and INTEGRITY that Speedway has left. Don't anybody tell me that this sort of thing will not put the General Public off Speedway - because believe me - IT WILL!!! CONTRIVING THINGS IS NOT SPORT - OR SPORTING!!!! :mad: :mad: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) So the result would have been ................... Denmark 40, Poland 38, Aussie 30 and Czech 12 without the joker, proper result eh! Edited July 21, 2013 by Trees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Being a cynical sort, I became disillusioned with speedway when the Golden Double, Joker or whatever it's called came in. I no longer feel the sport is about honest racing and that it is important to win at all costs. I don't attend matches but still watch on TV. I question whether some of the riders are allowing others to pass in order to help the team use of this terrible ploy (the Golden Double, Joker etc). We witnessed it last year... Crump and Pedersen, who could go over the line slowest so to benefit their countries and warrant them use of the Joker. I thought after that farce it would be abolished, but, aye, it's good TV. So please don't whinge, promoters, about the stay away fans. This rule has made many disillusioned, and, like me, they watch on telly from now. So, has the Joker, the climax to last night and “It’s good TV” adage, would it have won any supporters back to the terraces? I doubt it. It is time to look at reality, question the actual impact of the Joker and such other gimmicks. Is it worth losing terrace support in favour of ones who find it good TV? If so, with an apparent hunger of catering for TV fans, in future you’ll be racing in empty stadiums. Is speedway a serious sport … or will it continue to go down the avenue of relying on pretty ladies, Joker cards and miss-a-go rules to stir up some reaction from stay-at-home Herbert’s? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsj9803 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 so MJJ bottled it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchesterpaul Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Being a cynical sort, I became disillusioned with speedway when the Golden Double, Joker or whatever it's called came in. I no longer feel the sport is about honest racing and that it is important to win at all costs. I don't attend matches but still watch on TV. I question whether some of the riders are allowing others to pass in order to help the team use of this terrible ploy (the Golden Double, Joker etc). We witnessed it last year... Crump and Pedersen, who could go over the line slowest so to benefit their countries and warrant them use of the Joker. I thought after that farce it would be abolished, but, aye, it's good TV. Wasn't just last year, it's happened a few times this World Cup too. The sport will know it's on the right path once FIFA decree when a team is two goals down their next goal will count double if they score. On the thought of other sports following speedway in it's 'innovations' i'm so itching to see if Manchester United or any of the teams in British football will take to the pitch hidden under black capes and then reveal themselves Cardiff style. Hey! according to some it's good tv innit! So wish that speedway would accept that winners should be allowed to win. The teams shouldn't be allowed to double points at any stage. Limited tactical substitutions are ok as pretty much all sports allow subs during a team competition. UPDATE Oooops sorry 'tmc' i've just gone scrollling back through the thread and saw your comment FOOTBALL Theory: Spain take a 2-0 first half lead against Italy in the final of Euro 2012, but to avoid another ‘boring and predictable’ runaway victory for the world champions, FIFA introduces a rule that if Italy score the next goal, it will count double. (FIFA are mad enough to actually consider doing this, but not yet.) Reality: Spain went on to win 4-0, underlining their class and superiority as deserving Euro champs. Edited July 21, 2013 by manchesterpaul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emerald tyke Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 I don't care how close it helps the scores stay, the joker is a pathetic ruling that penalises the team that is winning. Show me any other sport where a successful team is constantly penalised (i.e. averages, league title team usually needs to break it up. Joker last night, Denmark did not get to use it). Joke rule for a joke sport. Lets get back to basics... four riders racing for points (not riding to drop points to bring in the joker). Wouldn't that mean preparing a racing track not a gating track....or making all riders bike identical which they are not! ....LOVE this sport to bits but its not racing anymore, gates/gating make a difference to who wins and usually within the 1st/2nd bend. Until this changes no new supporters!. Ive recently been from Ireland to Somerset with newbies with me on a DAY trip....(500miles and sea crossing) and the one outstanding comment was "the racing NEEDS to be close"!! Well Done Poland though on doing something that Denmark would have also done had they the opportunity, (but it should be scrapped) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 so MJJ bottled it again I wouldn't say that, gate 2 and 3 were far better then gate 1 and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Wouldn't that mean preparing a racing track not a gating track....or making all riders bike identical which they are not! I agree, that needs to change too, but the joker saw riders 'pretend to have engine problems' just so they can drop points to use the joker. For me that simply makes a mockery of the term 'speedway racing'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Wasn't just last year, it's happened a few times this World Cup too. The sport will know it's on the right path once FIFA decree when a team is two goals down their next goal will count double if they score. In many European football competitions the away goals do count double Then in Cricket the side scoring the most runs can still end up losers. The same in tennis and numerous sports you can win the most games and still be the loser. So it's not just Speedway that has stupid rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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