waiheke1 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Quite amazing. You admonish everyone else for discussing the points of criticism. And then go through each one. And pretty much agree with every bit of that criticism. You admonish everyone for airing grievances at the expense of looking at the positives. And (excepting MJJ getting second place in the last heat decider) do not highlight any real positives. What do you perceive as being really any different in your contribution. . i have no issue with posters such as yourself who have taken a rational approach to expressing your dis like for certain aspects and/or suggesting how it should be improved. Its when people start saying things like "all time low for speedway ", "farce" and "officially sanctioned cheating" when the fact is that back in the "good old days" there were rules which were no more equitable, that it seems people are going over the top in their complaints and looking only at the negative. Just my perception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) The worst part about the joker? It's name! Call it a tactical double, a tactical ride. Just don't call it a joker FFS! Maybe the "farcial double point thing" or "the abomination" or "the embarasment"? No, all stupid names? Well so is "the joker". Edited July 23, 2013 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) i have no issue with posters such as yourself who have taken a rational approach to expressing your dis like for certain aspects and/or suggesting how it should be improved. Its when people start saying things like "all time low for speedway ", "farce" and "officially sanctioned cheating" when the fact is that back in the "good old days" there were rules which were no more equitable, that it seems people are going over the top in their complaints and looking only at the negative. Just my perception No problem at all. My view is just about the same as your own. The only point on the joker or tac sub issue is that up until the BSI incarnation of the World Cup there had never been any sort of tactical arrangements in a World Championship event (except the use of reserves). Their usage in league and club competitions had been well established for decades but I cannot remember anyone ever suggesting it for the international stage. That is different. It just feels wrong. And yes, SCB, I have always looked in disbelief at the naming. Nothing shows it up for what it is more than the word Joker. And no one in the right places can see that. Downright weird. Edited July 23, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 "Czech republic being seeded to the final makes it a farce": Did the same people complain it was a farce in 1980 when Englan won, when the qualifying system denied Denmark (one of the three orld class nations) a place in the final, instead two spots being filled by weak continental sides who had no chance of winiing, making it a two way contest for the title? Did they complain in 1989 when England won after bwing seeded to the final? . The USA were also seeded for the two Long Beach Finals. They also had 2 guaranteed places in the 1982 Individual Final. Without the guarantee of home participation they would never have hosted any of those events. The WTCs of 76/79 and 82 prove that even in (what was at the time) speedway hotbeds fans wont turn out to watch these events if the hosts are not involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 The USA were also seeded for the two Long Beach Finals. They also had 2 guaranteed places in the 1982 Individual Final. Without the guarantee of home participation they would never have hosted any of those events. The WTCs of 76/79 and 82 prove that even in (what was at the time) speedway hotbeds fans wont turn out to watch these events if the hosts are not involved Completely true. In most of the cases mentioned the hosts were or would have been in a serious chance of winning the damn thing. So the crowd would be enticed along to watch their nation challenge for a world title, The strange thing in 2013 is that BSI must have expected a whole load of masochistic Czechs to turn up for some form of national public humiliation. Just a bit strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 TO be honest I think they and Petr Ondrasik were hoping for a bigger influx of Polish fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 TO be honest I think they and Petr Ondrasik were hoping for a bigger influx of Polish fans As David Brent said 'Everyone should have a pipe dream.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 TO be honest I think they and Petr Ondrasik were hoping for a bigger influx of Polish fans Eggs in one basket! Great business accumen or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 SOME of the Polish journos told us that many fans who had intended travelling did not once Gollob was out of the meeting. Poles like to win and obviously felt their chances were seriously diminished without the great one. Eggs in one basket? Don't follow you...they didn't anticipate the whole crowd being from Poland, simply as stated above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) SOME of the Polish journos told us that many fans who had intended travelling did not once Gollob was out of the meeting. This sort of thing always makes me smile. The polish guys speaking a load of tosh about something that is completely impossible to either prove true or false. But. As a British journo, of some long standing. I'm sure that you would never claim such a thing. To know what a whole load of British fans were, collectively, going to do. If only. But then they didn't. And they all know it's down to Gollob. Wouldn't it be great if a British journos job really was that easy. Edited July 23, 2013 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) We've just had a world cup final come down t a last heat decider and what do we have - floods of people telling us what a farce it was, rolling out the same arguments, it seems some people just love to complain. now to make clear: i don't agree with seeding hosts to the final, i don't like the joker in its current form and the track in Prague is never going to be conducive to superb racing, though MJJ in heat 20 for example showed that passing was possible (and if it had been Peter Collins doing that in a youtube clip from 1977 no doubt everyone ould be saying that you don't get passing like that any mor)... BUT, the final was no worse then many many preceeeding finals from"the good old days.", nor are the current rules.system any worse than what has been happily accepted at various points in the past. to address the main complaints: "the joker is mickey mouse/unfair etc" : yet it doesn't give as much benefit to the trailing team as the old tac sub did, and most people didn't/don't have an issue with that (to use a TMC like analogy, if the joker rrule is like allowing cricket batsman double runs in the next over, the tac sub rule was like allowing to tail end batsmen to be replaced by your best two). "Czech republic being seeded to the final makes it a farce": Did the same people complain it was a farce in 1980 when Englan won, when the qualifying system denied Denmark (one of the three orld class nations) a place in the final, instead two spots being filled by weak continental sides who had no chance of winiing, making it a two way contest for the title? Did they complain in 1989 when England won after bwing seeded to the final? "The racing as rubbish": It wasn't great, but there have been some pretty poor finals over the years even in the "good old days." it's a fact in all sports that finals can often not be of the utmost quality (the rugby orld cup final in 2011, or many ot eh football world cup finals ) as there is no way to guarantee that conditions/riders/platyers etc. will all come together to produce a great spectacle on any given day. What you hope for is if the quality isn't great that this is made up for by tension/closeness, and a last heat decider certainly gives that. Certainly improvements can be made. But it seems to me like this has been seen as just another opportunity to air the ususal grievances wi thout looking at the positives from the meeting. There weren't any positives from the meeting! Edited July 23, 2013 by oldtimer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) There weren't any positives from the meeting! No there was something positive to come out of it I think we found that when it comes to the nominated races. Magnetic nameplates are marginally better than coloured building bricks. But only just. . Edited July 23, 2013 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 This sort of thing always makes me smile. The polish guys speaking a load of tosh about something that is completely impossible to either prove true or false. But. As a British journo, of some long standing. I'm sure that you would never claim such a thing. To know what a whole load of British fans were, collectively, going to do. If only. But then they didn't. And they all know it's down to Gollob. Wouldn't it be great if a British journos job really was that easy. YOU are in a very contrary mood... why would the Polish journos be talking a load of tosh? The loss of Gollob from the final was a huge topic in the Polish media and the reaction from the public provided significant evidence that many fans who had intended going had changed their minds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 The worst part about the joker? It's name! Call it a tactical double, a tactical ride. Just don't call it a joker FFS! Maybe the "farcial double point thing" or "the abomination" or "the embarasment"? No, all stupid names? Well so is "the joker". If it was good enough for It's A Knockout it should be good enough for speedway. If calling something something else was all that was wrong with speedway then there is nothing at all to worry about in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) YOU are in a very contrary mood... Fair point. Edited July 23, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 SOME of the Polish journos told us that many fans who had intended travelling did not once Gollob was out of the meeting. Poles like to win and obviously felt their chances were seriously diminished without the great one. Eggs in one basket? Don't follow you...they didn't anticipate the whole crowd being from Poland, simply as stated above. if you can't see that as being 'eggs in one basket',Phil, should've gone to specsavers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixy230 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Good final tho?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Good final tho?!?!?! It would have been had Denmark not been fiddled out of it. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 TO be honest I think they and Petr Ondrasik were hoping for a bigger influx of Polish fans Why have the final in Czech republic if your relying on Polish fans to fill the venue not the home fans.Would have been more sensible to seed the Poles to the final not the czech's .Seems the Poles are a little bit fickle,wont support the race off if their team aren't in,wont travel if Gollob's not riding because their team might not win,what was the excuse in Czestochowa this year when their team were guaranteed a win and they still didn't show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Prague was a poor choice of venue as the racing is awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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