World Cup Final

[waiheke1]

Sorry I am talking in league racing in Britain in the old days ,I don't understand your 8point swing in a single Race comment.

by replacing two weak riders with two heat leaders u could change a probable 1-5 into a 5-1 - so instead of a four point deficit a four point gain, an eight point swing. using a tac joker biggest swing u can get is replacing a likely zero pointer with a six pointer.

[foreverblue]

I think the Danish Team Manger should be sacked for failing to tell Bjerre the points situation.I it had been Team GB in this situation the usual suspects would have been calling for Middlo's head.

He should be sacked for not putting his best rider in the last heat

[TheReturn]

That as may be but I cant see them changing the rule anytime soon, its keeps teams close and the paying public interest is kept for longer and it is good for tv.

 

What a rubbish justification. Every other sport I can think of seem to manage fine without the need for 'jokers'!

[Terry]

He should be sacked for not putting his best rider in the last heat

No Danish rider would've beaten Hampel off the outside.

[foreverblue]

 

 

What a rubbish justification. Every other sport I can think of seem to manage fine without the need for 'jokers'!

Other sports dont need to, speedway is a minority sport that needs tv more than most other sports

[Fromafar]

 

by replacing two weak riders with two heat leaders u could change a probable 1-5 into a 5-1 - so instead of a four point deficit a four point gain, an eight point swing. using a tac joker biggest swing u can get is replacing a likely zero pointer with a six pointer.

 

 

 

In the old tac sub rule you could replace both poor performing riders a a race with a double tac sub.

Thereby changing an almost certain 1-5 into a 5-1.

That is an eight point swing.

 

Sorry for jumping the gun on adding the answer.

They could not score "extra" points is what I mean.The 2 riders could still only score 5 points,double points means 3 "extra "points in my book.the Joker is aptly named IMO.I seriously think Micky mouse rules have damaged the sport.Bonus points for good away performances is acceptable.But guests and double points have taken a lot of credibility away from the sport IMO.After watching Team speedway for 50+ years I feel that you are just watching Select Teams most weeks now and am losing my enthusiasm for the sport. Edited July 21, 2013 by Fromafar

[Grand Central]

Other sports dont need to, speedway is a minority sport that needs tv more than most other sports

 

Do you honestly think that any TV executive has ever had the intricacies of Speedway explained to him sufficiently to understand the difference between the World Cup final with, or without Jokers.

And then the same guy from Sky, Eurosport or Canal+ has said YOU MUST have them, and if you don't have them I'll pull the plug.

 

The existance of the whole Joker issue is one that came from within Speedway (and presumably BSI) and it stays because of voices within.

Not because of influence from outside.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Grand Central

[Grand Central]

They could not score "extra" points is what I mean.The 2 riders could still only score 5 points,double points means 3 "extra "points in my book.the Joker is aptly named IMO.I seriously think Micky mouse rules have damaged the sport.Bonus points for good away performances is acceptable.But guests and double points have taken a lot of credibility away from the sport IMO.After watching Team speedway for 50+ years I feel that you are just watching Select Teams most weeks now and am losing my enthusiasm for the sport.

 

No not 'extra' points.

If that is what particularly hits at 'credibility', for you.

Then fair enough.

 

But you did ask for an explanation of the the eight point swing that had been mentioned.

There is only a seven point swing available with a double point ride.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Grand Central

[foreverblue]

 

 

Do you honestly think that any TV executive has ever had the intricacies of Speedway explained to him sufficiently to understand the difference between the World Cup final with, or without Jokers.

And then the same guy from Sky, Eurosport or Canal+ has said YOU MUST have them, and if you don't have them I'll pull the plug.

 

The existance of the whole Joker issue is one that came from within Speedway (and presumably BSI) and it stays because of voices within.

Not because of influence from outside.

The basics are not difficult to understand or the scoring system, the joker will remain as it creates excitement in a similar way to the penalty shoot out and if we didnt have football on tv there would be more matches replayed.

[PHILIPRISING]

He should be sacked for not putting his best rider in the last heat

 

IT was a team decision. They knew they had the worst gate (4) and MJJ actually volunteered. The Danes gambled that they would be more than three points ahead of the Poles by then. Perhaps either Nicki or Niels should have put their hands up for the last heat but they had their strategy and it didn't work, especially with Hampel out in the last one.

 

Do you honestly think that any TV executive has ever had the intricacies of Speedway explained to him sufficiently to understand the difference between the World Cup final with, or without Jokers.

And then the same guy from Sky, Eurosport or Canal+ has said YOU MUST have them, and if you don't have them I'll pull the plug.

 

The existance of the whole Joker issue is one that came from within Speedway (and presumably BSI) and it stays because of voices within.

Not because of influence from outside.

 

THE TV companies like the whole Joker deal ... FACT. Just as Sky like the double-points tac.

[Grand Central]

THE TV companies like the whole Joker deal ... FACT. Just as Sky like the double-points tac.

 

I accept you are the man with facts.

So, would we not have had our World Cup Final on Eurosport on Saturday night without the Joker Rule?

[moxey63]

If it's correct what Philip Rising states, and we knew it anyway, then speedway promoters need a good shake for letting themselves be run by TV companies. Their concern should be for the people that have been turned off by these rules and perhaps watch at home (like I do), boosting the TV figures. But surely speedway tracks don't want this. It's no use people staying at home while venues play to empty terraces.

 

Seems to me as though speedway is at the mercy of TV companies and their efforts to drum up the X-Factor TV feel. As long as there's a thrilling climax they don't seem to care. Speedway will struggle on, battling to find its identity while the likes of SKY and Europsort seek other avenues to entertain their own patrons.

Edited July 22, 2013 by moxey63

[Grand Central]

The basics are not difficult to understand or the scoring system, the joker will remain as it creates excitement in a similar way to the penalty shoot out and if we didnt have football on tv there would be more matches replayed.

 

 

I didn't say it was difficult to understand.

 

The similarity to a penalty shoot out is a rather strange comparison.

That is used to decide when a match is tied at the end of a game in a knockout competition.

 

It is not used as an exciting 'Joker' for a side going a few goals down during the match.

(That may be something to write to Sepp Blatter with).

 

A Penalty shoot is Football's Run-off.

Not their tacsub or Joker

[Shale Shaker]

 

THE TV companies like the whole Joker deal ... FACT. Just as Sky like the double-points tac.

 

There's the rub unfortunately.

 

The Joker produced a tight finish, so as far as the TV companies and organisers are concerned, it worked, job done.

 

And so I'm sure it will be staying

[PHILIPRISING]

I accept you are the man with facts.

So, would we not have had our World Cup Final on Eurosport on Saturday night without the Joker Rule?

 

IT would have been on but, like it or not, all the TV companies will have loved the fact that it went to a last heat decider and that will influence their on-going decision making.

[moxey63]

When you sell yourself out to TV, surely complaints of stay at home fans, losing money every week, are hollow.

 

When the companies grow bored, stop chewing and spit us out, then perhaps speedway can return to running itself.

[Grand Central]

IT would have been on but, like it or not, all the TV companies will have loved the fact that it went to a last heat decider and that will influence their on-going decision making.

 

I just detest the rule and it did spoil my enjoyment a fair bit.

As it does every year.

 

If it had been a deal breaker for the TV companies then I may have had to accept it as a necessary evil.

Better to have the meeting on TV with Jokers.

Than not at all.

 

But if, as you say, it was not a deal breaker.

The meeting would still have been on Eurosport on Saturday.

Even without them.

And that is a fact.

 

It is not something we NEED to satisfy the moguls.

So now we are just stroking egos in TV land?

And Sod the others?

 

Nice to know

The FACTS.

 

 

.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Grand Central

[keepturningleft]

I can see knew art forms developing into speedway replacing long lost ones such as team riding - that is riders deliberately losing races but not making it look obvious, and sophisticated signalling systems coming from the pits so riders know when to lose or win.

 

I cannot believe we now have a situation where people pay good money to watch riders deliberately lose races.

It absolutely beggars belief.

Everytime there is a situation where a team will fall 6 points behind if they win a race, the public can never know if they are watching a genuine speedway race or not.

This is a fraud and a deception and the public should be eligible for a cash refund.

 

The solution should come from the riders who should simply refuse to take part in competitions where this charade is allowed to happen - but I don't suppose that will happen.

It is also sickening to hear the commentary team towing the corporate line.

I'm certain that Nige and Kelv hate the Joker as much as every other true speedway fan but they want to keep their jobs presumably, so they will go along with it and keep away from controversey.

 

Speedway - a sporting tragedy.

[moxey63]

I can see knew art forms developing into speedway replacing long lost ones such as team riding - that is riders deliberately losing races but not making it look obvious, and sophisticated signalling systems coming from the pits so riders know when to lose or win.

 

I cannot believe we now have a situation where people pay good money to watch riders deliberately lose races.

It absolutely beggars belief.

Everytime there is a situation where a team will fall 6 points behind if they win a race, the public can never know if they are watching a genuine speedway race or not.

This is a fraud and a deception and the public should be eligible for a cash refund.

 

The solution should come from the riders who should simply refuse to take part in competitions where this charade is allowed to happen - but I don't suppose that will happen.

It is also sickening to hear the commentary team towing the corporate line.

I'm certain that Nige and Kelv hate the Joker as much as every other true speedway fan but they want to keep their jobs presumably, so they will go along with it and keep away from controversey.

 

Speedway - a sporting tragedy.

 

You echo my feelings exactly. One of the main reasons I think I stopped attending speedway was that I ddin't believe riders were actually trying as hard as they could, I couldn't tell a genuine pass from a stage managed affair. As a stats freak, I like to see records and believe them, not think that maybe he beat him because he let him.

 

Until speedway returns to reality, I ain't stepping foot on the terraces again.

 

You are right, keepturning left, about Nige and Kelvin, they weren't happy initially by Crump and Pedesen's tacticd of slowing to give their nations some advantage in last year's final but quickly changed their opinions within minutes, possibly with a word in their ears from the TV people.

 

Couldn't believe how quickly they altered their views.

[foreverblue]

I didn't say it was difficult to understand.

 

The similarity to a penalty shoot out is a rather strange comparison.

That is used to decide when a match is tied at the end of a game in a knockout competition.

 

It is not used as an exciting 'Joker' for a side going a few goals down during the match.

(That may be something to write to Sepp Blatter with).

 

A Penalty shoot is Football's Run-off.

Not their tacsub or Joker

Just pointing out that every sport panders to tv in some way and football create extra excitement and tension with a shoot out, the joker creates excitement and tension and a last heat decider. I didn't say i agreed with it just pointing out why it is here to stay.