World Cup Final

[Grand Central]

Just pointing out that every sport panders to tv in some way and football create extra excitement and tension with a shoot out, the joker creates excitement and tension and a last heat decider. I didn't say i agreed with it just pointing out why it is here to stay.

 

That's fine.

 

We must be alone though in being a sport which actually uses the term 'Joker'.

It sounds like something our worst detractors would use to describe it.

For reasons of denigration.

Not a term that the series organiser would promote and even create graphics about.

 

There must be some funny chaps in the TV world.

Or at least in our little corner of it.

 

 

[moxey63]

To create excitement and ultimate climax, why don't we just stage the last race of each meeting and do away with having to sit through the rest.

 

It would cut cost.

[keepturningleft]

Well, the next logical step is that all the GP races and finals will all in fact be a mere qualification procedure for a single grand final race at the very last GP, similar of course to the league play offs.

The fact that one rider may dominate every GP throughout the season but then suffer an engine failure in the grand final race will be simply tough luck.

The circle of madness currently enveloping speedway will then be complete.

[The Know]

Well a pretty bland SWC final on a very average track. No real passing to near the end when things got a bit better and last few heats were good.

Chechs were good value for money What A LOAD of rubbish and a silly idea to seed host nation to final.

The chaps sticking the riders up for last four heats seems very tacky but no less than the rubic cube they used at other meetings. Funny bit was polish chap was to short to reach May we need a set of Monster steps.

Time for a rethink on the whole event as old hat now in its current format i believe.

 

Where was the crowd ? Very poor for race off and final no better. Didnt even look half full No doudt Phil will tell us what a success it was and the crowd was there, just hiding under there seats just in case it rained as par for course

[SCB]

To create excitement and ultimate climax, why don't we just stage the last race of each meeting and do away with having to sit through the rest.

 

It would cut cost.

Some clubs would still drag meetings out over 3 hours!

[GREDON]

The country that wins this years Final stages next years, whilst this may mean Poland and Denmark every year so be it. No need then to have wild card country. Four riders per team plus one reserve, who can have up to 5 rides. Tactical sub if necessary, but not double points and definitely no Joker, this should have gone with Its a Knockout on TV

[PHILIPRISING]

Well a pretty bland SWC final on a very average track. No real passing to near the end when things got a bit better and last few heats were good.

Chechs were good value for money What A LOAD of rubbish and a silly idea to seed host nation to final.

The chaps sticking the riders up for last four heats seems very tacky but no less than the rubic cube they used at other meetings. Funny bit was polish chap was to short to reach May we need a set of Monster steps.

Time for a rethink on the whole event as old hat now in its current format i believe.

 

Where was the crowd ? Very poor for race off and final no better. Didnt even look half full No doudt Phil will tell us what a success it was and the crowd was there, just hiding under there seats just in case it rained as par for course

 

NO I won't. Crowd was disappointing. Problem is that the Poles just don't travel to Prague in the numbers that they used to and with no Gollob many may have decided against going fearing the worse. I also don't agree with seeding the host nation.

 

However, Pavel Ondrasik, son of Petr, is making great efforts to improve the track at the Marketa and hopefully will get it right. He knows that a racing surface like Bydgoszcz in a city like Prague could be a potent combination. Nicki Pedersen said the track was better than for the GP and with a few adjustments to both corners and better material it could be excellent.

 

In principal I also don't like the Joker (although it's connotation is much worse in English) but the speedway world isn't ideal and while many on here abhor it others, especially in the continent, are much less agitated by its presence.

[The White Knight]

IT was a team decision. They knew they had the worst gate (4) and MJJ actually volunteered. The Danes gambled that they would be more than three points ahead of the Poles by then. Perhaps either Nicki or Niels should have put their hands up for the last heat but they had their strategy and it didn't work, especially with Hampel out in the last one.

 

 

 

THE TV companies like the whole Joker deal ... FACT. Just as Sky like the double-points tac.

 

But I always thought that the Sport was run for:

 

i) Promoters to make money (laughable in the current climate - I admit).

 

ii) Providing work for Speedway Riders.

 

iii) Supporters of Speedway Clubs.

 

iv) Being part of the Local Community.

 

I did NOT realise that the Television people were the Rule Makers in Speedway - no the wonder it is going to the wall. All the Media (SKY) are interested in is making a quick 'buck'. If they so decide, they will drop Speedway and move on to another Sport without a care or a thought. You will say THAT is business - I would say we should not have allowed SKY or anyone else to decide the Rules/Regulations of OUR Sport. WE, the Supporters, are the ones who have a great passion/love for Speedway, the Media (SKY) simply couldn't give a toss - all they are interested in is the MONEY.

 

Why were BSI, SKY or whoever ALLOWED to have such an influence on Speedway. You cannot say it was for the benefit of the Sport - it clearly isn't - Support is still falling.

 

To sum up. SKY and BSI will leave Speedway sooner or later, when they do it will be without a care or a regret at the havoc they (and BSI) have caused in the Sport.

 

NEITHER OUTFIT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE FIRST PLACE. I HOPE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE ARE HAPPY - BECAUSE I, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE ME - ARE NOT!!!

 

Silly Rules that may make Meetings closer on the Scoresheet but in actuality fiddle and cheat the true Supporter out of a FAIR Result might be good for 'IT'S A KNOCKOUT' - but - those type of stupid Rules/Regulation should have no place in a serious Sport like SPEEDWAY.

Edited July 22, 2013 by The White Knight

[pugwash]

THE TV companies like the whole Joker deal ... FACT.

Then maybe they could have an "It's a Royal Speedway World Cup Knockout" next year to keep the entertainment going. Prince Edward could take over from Middlo as manager. If team GB go 6 points behind, he would play the tac joker and Prince Harry could replace Eddie Kennett or whoever.

Stuart Hall could mind the kids.

Edited July 22, 2013 by pugwash

[moxey63]

Stuart Hall could mind the kids.

 

Don't be daft... Stuart Hall wouldn't be seen dead anywhere near speedway.

[stratton]

 

 

But I always thought that the Sport was run for:

 

i) Promoters to make money (laughable in the current climate - I admit).

 

ii) Providing work for Speedway Riders.

 

iii) Supporters of Speedway Clubs.

 

iv) Being part of the Local Community.

 

I did NOT realise that the Television people were the Rule Makers in Speedway - no the wonder it is going to the wall. All the Media (SKY) are interested in is making a quick 'buck'. If they so decide, they will drop Speedway and move on to another Sport without a care or a thought. You will say THAT is business - I would say we should not have allowed SKY or anyone else to decide the Rules/Regulations of OUR Sport. WE, the Supporters, are the ones who have a great passion/love for Speedway, the Media (SKY) simply couldn't give a toss - all they are interested in is the MONEY.

 

Why were BSI, SKY or whoever ALLOWED to have such an influence on Speedway. You cannot say it was for the benefit of the Sport - it clearly isn't - Support is still falling.

 

To sum up. SKY and BSI will leave Speedway sooner or later, when they do it will be without a care or a regret at the havoc they (and BSI) have caused in the Sport.

 

NEITHER OUTFIT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE FIRST PLACE. I HOPE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE ARE HAPPY - BECAUSE I, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE ME - ARE NOT!!!

 

Silly Rules that may make Meetings closer on the Scoresheet but in actuality fiddle and cheat the true Supporter out of a FAIR Result might be good for 'IT'S A KNOCKOUT' - but - those type of stupid Rules/Regulation should have no place in a serious Sport like SPEEDWAY.

A lot of Passion from you WK

,and i agree with everything you have said but i am afraid in our lifetimes things won't get better.The world Championships were changed no real input into what the fans wanted.Ok the series has turned out to be great still not my cup of tea but i do appreciate it has moved the sport forward.But at onetime we had a powerfull league singing the tune with a great one off championships that had lasted the test in time maybe needed tweaking but not changing.Now England look to be struggling league wise and a GP Series that is totally isolated from league speedway.

[PHILIPRISING]

AS usual you seem to be oblivious of the impact Polish speedway has had on the British scene, especially when allied to the Swedish league. In the good old days that you talk about any rider worth his salt raced in the UK but that is no longer the case and has very little to do with the GP. Many riders can and do now ply their trade in Poland and Sweden without the need to commute to the UK.

 

And I'm afraid that if you think all the old World Championship needed 'tweaking' then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. During the early 1990s when Editor of Speedway Star I was 'public enemy number ion at the FIM' for continually campaigning against a GP style championship but eventually I too came to realise that the one off World Final was dying on its feet with venues like Pocking and Vojens hosting the showpiece event.

 

It desperately needed a new lease of life, to adopt a championship format favoured right across top class motor sport. But any suggestion that it has caused the downfall of British speedway is pure fantasy.

[The White Knight]

AS usual you seem to be oblivious of the impact Polish speedway has had on the British scene, especially when allied to the Swedish league. In the good old days that you talk about any rider worth his salt raced in the UK but that is no longer the case and has very little to do with the GP. Many riders can and do now ply their trade in Poland and Sweden without the need to commute to the UK.

 

And I'm afraid that if you think all the old World Championship needed 'tweaking' then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. During the early 1990s when Editor of Speedway Star I was 'public enemy number ion at the FIM' for continually campaigning against a GP style championship but eventually I too came to realise that the one off World Final was dying on its feet with venues like Pocking and Vojens hosting the showpiece event.

 

It desperately needed a new lease of life, to adopt a championship format favoured right across top class motor sport. But any suggestion that it has caused the downfall of British speedway is pure fantasy.

 

No comment on the Media having far too much input in to Speedway Rules/Regulations then Philip. :sad:

[oldace]

AS usual you seem to be oblivious of the impact Polish speedway has had on the British scene, especially when allied to the Swedish league. In the good old days that you talk about any rider worth his salt raced in the UK but that is no longer the case and has very little to do with the GP. Many riders can and do now ply their trade in Poland and Sweden without the need to commute to the UK.

 

And I'm afraid that if you think all the old World Championship needed 'tweaking' then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. During the early 1990s when Editor of Speedway Star I was 'public enemy number ion at the FIM' for continually campaigning against a GP style championship but eventually I too came to realise that the one off World Final was dying on its feet with venues like Pocking and Vojens hosting the showpiece event.

 

It desperately needed a new lease of life, to adopt a championship format favoured right across top class motor sport. But any suggestion that it has caused the downfall of British speedway is pure fantasy.

 

Spot on Phil. In reality the GP was 10 years late. Successful business' dont wait for the cracks to turn into vast chasms. Constant evolution is essential but speedway was content to sit on a business model 20 years out of date and failing fast

[Starman2006]

 

 

It desperately needed a new lease of life, to adopt a championship format favoured right across top class motor sport. But any suggestion that it has caused the downfall of British speedway is pure fantasy.

 

Good idea in the first instance, but think there are now to many GP rounds. So what in your opinion has caused the downward trend in British Speedway?

[PHILIPRISING]

A CHANGING dynamic in the British population for one. Why would any youngster want to be a speedway rider? We don't have the club culture that there is in Denmark, Poland and Sweden, there is no route to speedway from grasstrack that there once was, there is no investment in attracting and then providing proper training for the few that might be tempted to try speedway.

 

Having tracks racing on so many different nights (no answer to this one) is a huge problem now while it wasn't before the Polish and even Danish leagues came to the fore and provided riders with viable and alternative employment. Facilities at so many tracks are from a bygone era, constant changing of teams, fixtures one week and not the next (or even the next), a huge complex rulebook that hinders rather than helps tracks in need, a lack of trust in the BSPA as a whole and the failure to implement an independent body ... and, sadly, much more.

 

No comment on the Media having far too much input in to Speedway Rules/Regulations then Philip. :sad:

 

I'M not aware that the media has any input. Might be better if we did!

[The White Knight]

A CHANGING dynamic in the British population for one. Why would any youngster want to be a speedway rider? We don't have the club culture that there is in Denmark, Poland and Sweden, there is no route to speedway from grasstrack that there once was, there is no investment in attracting and then providing proper training for the few that might be tempted to try speedway.

 

Having tracks racing on so many different nights (no answer to this one) is a huge problem now while it wasn't before the Polish and even Danish leagues came to the fore and provided riders with viable and alternative employment. Facilities at so many tracks are from a bygone era, constant changing of teams, fixtures one week and not the next (or even the next), a huge complex rulebook that hinders rather than helps tracks in need, a lack of trust in the BSPA as a whole and the failure to implement an independent body ... and, sadly, much more.

 

 

 

I'M not aware that the media has any input. Might be better if we did!

 

Joker, Double Points, Change of Helmet Colours - all done for Television (SKY) to name but three.

[salty]

 

 

Joker, Double Points, Change of Helmet Colours - all done for Television (SKY) to name but three.

All of which have had little negative effect on the sport. Compared to the list of other issues that Phil has listed below.....

A CHANGING dynamic in the British population for one. Why would any youngster want to be a speedway rider? We don't have the club culture that there is in Denmark, Poland and Sweden, there is no route to speedway from grasstrack that there once was, there is no investment in attracting and then providing proper training for the few that might be tempted to try speedway.

 

Having tracks racing on so many different nights (no answer to this one) is a huge problem now while it wasn't before the Polish and even Danish leagues came to the fore and provided riders with viable and alternative employment. Facilities at so many tracks are from a bygone era, constant changing of teams, fixtures one week and not the next (or even the next), a huge complex rulebook that hinders rather than helps tracks in need, a lack of trust in the BSPA as a whole and the failure to implement an independent body ... and, sadly, much more.

[waiheke1]

We've just had a world cup final come down t a last heat decider and what do we have - floods of people telling us what a farce it was, rolling out the same arguments, it seems some people just love to complain.

 

now to make clear: i don't agree with seeding hosts to the final, i don't like the joker in its current form and the track in Prague is never going to be conducive to superb racing, though MJJ in heat 20 for example showed that passing was possible (and if it had been Peter Collins doing that in a youtube clip from 1977 no doubt everyone ould be saying that you don't get passing like that any mor)... BUT, the final was no worse then many many preceeeding finals from"the good old days.", nor are the current rules.system any worse than what has been happily accepted at various points in the past.

 

to address the main complaints:

"the joker is mickey mouse/unfair etc" : yet it doesn't give as much benefit to the trailing team as the old tac sub did, and most people didn't/don't have an issue with that (to use a TMC like analogy, if the joker rrule is like allowing cricket batsman double runs in the next over, the tac sub rule was like allowing to tail end batsmen to be replaced by your best two).

 

"Czech republic being seeded to the final makes it a farce": Did the same people complain it was a farce in 1980 when Englan won, when the qualifying system denied Denmark (one of the three orld class nations) a place in the final, instead two spots being filled by weak continental sides who had no chance of winiing, making it a two way contest for the title? Did they complain in 1989 when England won after bwing seeded to the final?

 

"The racing as rubbish": It wasn't great, but there have been some pretty poor finals over the years even in the "good old days." it's a fact in all sports that finals can often not be of the utmost quality (the rugby orld cup final in 2011, or many ot eh football world cup finals ) as there is no way to guarantee that conditions/riders/platyers etc. will all come together to produce a great spectacle on any given day. What you hope for is if the quality isn't great that this is made up for by tension/closeness, and a last heat decider certainly gives that.

 

Certainly improvements can be made. But it seems to me like this has been seen as just another opportunity to air the ususal grievances without looking at the positives from the meeting.

[Grand Central]

We've just had a world cup final come down t a last heat decider and what do we have - floods of people telling us what a farce it was,

 

 

Certainly improvements can be made. But it seems to me like this has been seen as just another opportunity to air the ususal grievances without looking at the positives from the meeting.

 

Quite amazing.

 

You admonish everyone else for discussing the points of criticism.

And then go through each one.

And pretty much agree with every bit of that criticism.

 

You admonish everyone for airing grievances at the expense of looking at the positives.

And (excepting MJJ getting second place in the last heat decider) do not highlight any real positives.

 

What do you perceive as being really any different in your contribution.

 

.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Grand Central