British Speedway Failing Its Own...

[muirspud]

Put this on reply to another post...

 

 

Hope the BSPA and all those involed with GB speedway will sit down after this and all say to them selfs "How do we bring elite british speedway riders through the system" and keep them there at the top.

 

Not just me, but i could name at least 10 riders throughout the 90's/early 00's that could sail into the GB team. Probably only Tai who is worthy of his place, but Harris(few year ago)Loram/Louis/Screen/Dugard/Norris/Barker/Smith/Nicholls(02-04)/Rico/Stonehewer/Havelock/Tatum/Wilson could easily get in that team and replace all the other squad members.

 

Are British Speedway failing British riders and getting the next crop of talented quality riders through to the GP's and be top Elite league riders?

[The White Knight]

Put this on reply to another post...

 

 

Hope the BSPA and all those involed with GB speedway will sit down after this and all say to them selfs "How do we bring elite british speedway riders through the system" and keep them there at the top.

 

Not just me, but i could name at least 10 riders throughout the 90's/early 00's that could sail into the GB team. Probably only Tai who is worthy of his place, but Harris(few year ago)Loram/Louis/Screen/Dugard/Norris/Barker/Smith/Nicholls(02-04)/Rico/Stonehewer/Havelock/Tatum/Wilson could easily get in that team and replace all the other squad members.

 

Are British Speedway failing British riders and getting the next crop of talented quality riders through to the GP's and be top Elite league riders?

 

Basically, when it comes down to it, the impression that I get is that those who run British Speedway are more concerned with their 'core' businesses (their Tracks) than they are about producing International Class Riders who will at some stage leave our League System to take part in the Grand Prix. This, to a point is understandable. What is the point in spending money in developing Riders for the future, when, as soon as they are developed, they leave British Speedway to ride in Poland or wherever for bigger Wages. I know that not all Riders leave, but it has already happened. For example Scott Nichols gave up British Speedway for a time to concentrate on the 'GPs'. This is NOT good for British Speedway and neither is the GP System.

 

This is one of the reasons that I am against the GP System - it is leaving our Senior League Tracks and British Speedway denuded of the World's Top Class Riders.

 

Each Promoter has a responsibility for his own Track, in the current Financial climate, many can't seem to see any further than that. Very sad - but - that is the way I see it.

[PHILIPRISING]

I DON'T know whether any of you have read Gary Neville's comments on the current paucity of World class English soccer players and the lack of opportunity for many up-and-coming youngsters in the game right now. Scale it down and he could just as easily be talking about British speedway.

[BWitcher]

I DON'T know whether any of you have read Gary Neville's comments on the current paucity of World class English soccer players and the lack of opportunity for many up-and-coming youngsters in the game right now. Scale it down and he could just as easily be talking about British speedway.

 

Whilst agreeing that the lack of opportunites has an impact, I'm still of the belief that attitude is a far bigger reason. There are many many foreign speedway riders and football players who have lack of 'opportunities' but knuckle down, train hard and make the best of their ability.

 

The problem with too many Brits in both sports is they get to a certain level, usually a very average one and think they've made it. Craig Cook's comments show him to be the latest example of this.

 

It's worse in football's case as young players quite a long way down the scale are earning far more money than their peers, meaning they are the centre of attention and it all goes to their heads. Speedway, on a lesser scale (without the money so much) is similar, we've all seen the entourages around the most average of British riders.

 

Tai Woffinden has shown with the right attitude you can make it to the top echelon. He may have been raised in Australia BUT he has worked through the British system and steadily improved to become the rider he is now. Messrs Holder and Ward have also come through the same system. The difference is they don't sit on their butts and look towards doubling up in the PL to earn a bit more money, they got out and sorted spots out in foreign leagues and continued to progress as a result.

[mikebv]

I DON'T know whether any of you have read Gary Neville's comments on the current paucity of World class English soccer players and the lack of opportunity for many up-and-coming youngsters in the game right now. Scale it down and he could just as easily be talking about British speedway.

 

said it before on here...

 

the football leagues are following the same 'hugely successful' blueprint that speedway embarked on during the eighties..

 

ie bring over hundreds of journeymen foreigners rather than develop your own,..

 

rugby and cricket used to do this but then changed tack and started to restrict overseas players and put their focus instead on young british players...

 

amazingly since that plan was delivered (from independent governing bodies) the england team in those sports became the best in the world...

 

can't imagine how and why....

[BWitcher]

England are the best in the world at Rugby right now? When did this happen?

[Cockney Rebel]

Basically, when it comes down to it, the impression that I get is that those who run British Speedway are more concerned with their 'core' businesses (their Tracks) than they are about producing International Class Riders who will at some stage leave our League System to take part in the Grand Prix. This, to a point is understandable. What is the point in spending money in developing Riders for the future, when, as soon as they are developed, they leave British Speedway to ride in Poland or wherever for bigger Wages. I know that not all Riders leave, but it has already happened. For example Scott Nichols gave up British Speedway for a time to concentrate on the 'GPs'. This is NOT good for British Speedway and neither is the GP System.

 

This is one of the reasons that I am against the GP System - it is leaving our Senior League Tracks and British Speedway denuded of the World's Top Class Riders.

 

Each Promoter has a responsibility for his own Track, in the current Financial climate, many can't seem to see any further than that. Very sad - but - that is the way I see it.

 

Agree with everything you said about the damage that the GP system has done to British Speedway White Knight, unfortunately it's not going to change so we have to put up with it. However I don't think that has anything to do with young Brits not developing into World Class riders. During the nineties I had a bit of a hiatus from the sport mainly due to my two regular tracks Hackney and Rye House closing, when Rye House started up again and my enthusiasm was rekindled there were a lot of riders I had never heard of, two names kept cropping up when talking future world champions David Howe and Simon Stead although both of them are decent riders I think that both would admit they're not World beaters. So why have they not gone on to conquer the world. At Rye House we've had Eddie Kennett, Danny King, Steve Boxall and of course Tai Woffinden. Only one of those has gone on to fulfill his early promise, Kennett and King both show flashes of world class form but can't maintain it and Boxall has faffed about about in and out of the sport. These three have undoubted talent so why are they not up there with Tai? Whats the difference? Maybe it's attitude? Tai was bought up in Australia the other three in England maybe it's a cultural/attitude thing. I was reading last weeks speedway star in particular the interviews with Mikkel Bech and Lewis Blackbird. Lewis said when he was about 17/18 he was more interest in going out with his mates and having a good time rather than concentrate on speedway. Perfectly understandable and I mean no criticism of Lewis but reading the Bech interview he shows a completely different mind set choosing to come to a foreign land at such a young age to learn different tracks and thereby improve his skill on a speedway bike. By the time he reaches Lewis' age he will be a far better rider. Is this dedication to learning your craft an alien concept to todays youngsters not just speedway riders but to all of todays youth.

 

Not I typed this before seeing BWitchers post

Edited July 16, 2013 by Cockney Rebel

[LagutaRacingFan]

England are the best in the world at cricket

[screm]

England are the best in the world at cricket

 

One ot two from SA would have something to say about that.

[stratton]

 

 

Whilst agreeing that the lack of opportunites has an impact, I'm still of the belief that attitude is a far bigger reason. There are many many foreign speedway riders and football players who have lack of 'opportunities' but knuckle down, train hard and make the best of their ability.

 

The problem with too many Brits in both sports is they get to a certain level, usually a very average one and think they've made it. Craig Cook's comments show him to be the latest example of this.

 

It's worse in football's case as young players quite a long way down the scale are earning far more money than their peers, meaning they are the centre of attention and it all goes to their heads. Speedway, on a lesser scale (without the money so much) is similar, we've all seen the entourages around the most average of British riders.

 

Tai Woffinden has shown with the right attitude you can make it to the top echelon. He may have been raised in Australia BUT he has worked through the British system and steadily improved to become the rider he is now. Messrs Holder and Ward have also come through the same system. The difference is they don't sit on their butts and look towards doubling up in the PL to earn a bit more money, they got out and sorted spots out in foreign leagues and continued to progress as a result.

Never ever wanted to comment on another post of yours but i have to what total crap! Because people d/up does that make them lacking in ambition? do you know these riders? Is it easy to get opportunities abroad get real these guys have to pay the bills.Woffinden is where he is because he is a very very talented rider end of in a way that's why if the EL fInished and amalgamated it would not matter why do people d/up? to make a living don't you agree.?

[orion]

Yea lack of English football players are Killing the English national team I can remember when nearly every 1-11 was English players in the 70's and we never made it to one world cup in that time ...We have the same debate about speedway time and time again and I always give the same answer if your good enough you will get a chance, no one in UK is being stopped by anyone . Where speedway in the uk is going wrong is not getting people into the system in the first place .get that right and the rest will come .

[The Voice Of Reason]

Don't disagree with any of the above but are we, as a fanbase, tolerant enough to go through 5 years or more of further sub-standard teams? Let's be honest, there are enough whinges already (and quite rightly so) about the lack of GP/World Class riders within the Elite League.

 

If, as I believe tracks should, have a minimum British rider level, where would that decision sit with the average supporter? There would be moans of a further 'watered down product'.

 

We are not tolerant as supporters. If a British rider is brought into a team at Reserve, he isn't given the opportunity, and the necessary time, to develop in my honest opinion. Supporters deem that rider not to be good enough; and more often than not, he finds himself taking a backward step into the PL and, at best doubles up with an EL team. As supporters, we place pressure upon our respective promotions to make changes. It appears these days that all we want to do is win. Doubt it? How many changes did EL teams make by the end of May this year (my own included)?

 

Unfortunately, the only way that I can ever see a quota system operating, and for British riders to be accepted by many, is to amalgamate the Premier and Elite Leagues. The fact remains that the Elite League is now anything but 'Elite'. And to add insult to injury, we have a Team GB Manager who seems only too ready to look to the four corners of Europe for new riders; rather than developing home-grown talent. That, to my mind, is truly incredulous.

 

When I first started watching Speedway in 1975, the British League was undoubtedly the best in the sport. Nearly every World Championship/International level rider rode for a BL team. These days, that simply doesn't happen. The reason, as hinted above, is partly due to the dire GP series that we now have within the sport. I detest it. I won't even watch it.

 

Then we come to the crux of the issue - funding. Due to advancements in machinery and it's ongoing spiralling costs, a rider needs a great deal of money these days to be truly competitive within the top division. Yes, he needs to have the self-motivation and professionalism BUT without necessary sponsorship, how far can he truly progress? Where is the financial support to help him take that next step up the ladder? If it isn't forthcoming, then can we honestly blame younger British riders for apparently not progressing?

 

Now let's look at the support that these guys get from the terraces as they start out within the sport. If you truly want British riders to progress, then ask yourself this question. When did you last visit a National League track? When did YOU last demonstrate the commitment and enthusiasm that you expect from the younger British riders?

 

A couple of years ago, my own Club (Lakeside) re-created The Hackney Hawks. We entered the team into The National League. I was actually surprised at the overall good standard/quality of racing. Unfortunately, the lack of support on the terraces was a complete and utter disgrace if I'm honest. It only lasted one season as the promotion simply could not afford to continually endure the financial losses.

 

Yet, guess what people even at my club moan about? The lack of British riders, and Friday nights during the season when there isn't any speedway.

 

You really couldn't make it up.

Edited July 16, 2013 by The Voice Of Reason

[muirspud]

Should there be a quota of x amount of brits in 1 side, or 2 brits under 24 in the 1-7? The lack in depth of world class rider on these shores is shocking! These are the guys we need to bring here so our young riders have something to beat and strive towards. Back to where there was 2/3 GP riders in most teams and 3 8-10pt heat leaders.

 

I know a few of these will never happen again. But at least back then, british riders had a chance to be the best in the world as they was always riding against some of the best in the world and had to get better/improve to be able to beat them week in week out.

Edited July 16, 2013 by muirspud

[SCB]

Yea lack of English football players are Killing the English national team I can remember when nearly every 1-11 was English players in the 70's and we never made it to one world cup in that time ...We have the same debate about speedway time and time again and I always give the same answer if your good enough you will get a chance, no one in UK is being stopped by anyone . Where speedway in the uk is going wrong is not getting people into the system in the first place .get that right and the rest will come .

BINGO!

 

If 1% of rider who buy a bike making it to the GPs one day and you have 100 kids, 1 of them will be a GP rider. If you have 1000 then 10 of them will be. There could be 20 potential World Champions out there on the shore of the UK but they'll never sit on a bike in their lives. We need to get more people trying speedway to find the decent riders.

[stratton]

Yea lack of English football players are Killing the English national team I can remember when nearly every 1-11 was English players in the 70's and we never made it to one world cup in that time ...We have the same debate about speedway time and time again and I always give the same answer if your good enough you will get a chance, no one in UK is being stopped by anyone . Where speedway in the uk is going wrong is not getting people into the system in the first place .get that right and the rest will come .

You have to be given a chance first! ok in the prem i can except,not div 1 and 2.I have seen a bit of lower tier football and there are alot of average imports who are no better than our talent (more exspensive) though.! Crewe are the only club i know who have had the balls to give our youth a chance and they have not done bad selling the likes of Powell,Murphy and in the future Clayton the fees have kept that club in a stable position.

[mikebv]

England are the best in the world at Rugby right now? When did this happen?

 

2003 if i remember correctly...

 

approx 10 years after the rfu put a vision in place to increase attendances for the domestic game by delivering a great national team...

 

they realised that the national media and national sponsors would come on board if 'the game' at international level was successful..

 

central contracts, restrictions on foreigners, and greater proffessionalism from the players and clubs were all part of the plan..

 

you can see today how this plan has benefited the sport domestically and even though england are no longer No1 the legacy of that plan still lingers...

[MattK]

BINGO!

 

If 1% of rider who buy a bike making it to the GPs one day and you have 100 kids, 1 of them will be a GP rider. If you have 1000 then 10 of them will be. There could be 20 potential World Champions out there on the shore of the UK but they'll never sit on a bike in their lives. We need to get more people trying speedway to find the decent riders.

 

This is the same for any "elite" sport, tennis, golf, cycling, F1 (in fact any motorsport).

 

I agree that I think is it mainly a lack of ambition among the "middle tier" riders who prefer the safety of the British Premier/Elite Leagues, rather than taking a risk and trying to compete for a team place in the Swedish and Polish leagues.

[Bream]

Ask the Danes? Mini-speedway and later get your guys riding outside UK. Fight for those places in foreign leagues.

[AlanF]

I think you can trace the decline back to the decision to allow Jens Rasmussen and Peter Shroek to ride for Rye House. We already had some Aussies but this opened the floodgates. I am all for the Elite League attracting the best riders in the world, but the Premier League should be all about British riders. We have become trapped in a vicious circle.

 

Fewer places available = Less riders making it to the top = Less national visibility = Less kids want to take up the sport = Not enough Brits = Bring in more average foreigners. Then start back at the beginning.

 

The end result is we have second strings riding for us in the World Cup. We have been through this cycle so many times now in ever decreasing circles that I don't know if you can stop it disappearing down the plug hole. Too late now to introduce quotas of British riders as there are not enough of the required standard.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I think you can trace the decline back to the decision to allow Jens Rasmussen and Peter Shroek to ride for Rye House. We already had some Aussies but this opened the floodgates.

 

The end result is we have second strings riding for us in the World Cup. We have been through this cycle so many times now in ever decreasing circles that I don't know if you can stop it disappearing down the plug hole. Too late now to introduce quotas of British riders as there are not enough of the required standard.

When Len pushed to sign Jens and Peter, he had newly introduced European Employment Law on his side if I'm honest. Plus, in the case of Jens, he was married to a girl (Elaine) from Peterborough. They had kids together, Jens moved lock, stock and barrel to the UK from Denmark in 1982, so it would have been extremely difficult not to grant him a licence to ride.

 

Also, let's not muddy the waters. The introduction of so many foreign riders into British Speedway can possibly be laid clearly at the feet of the promoters themselves - NOT the foreign riders that genuinely WANT to ride in the UK! There are some EL clubs (thankfully not mine) that appear to be anti-British in their approach to team-building. Why? I really don't know. For example, in the case of Richard Lawson, our gain is certainly Peterborough's loss (and I don't mean to single out the Panthers, this is just a prime example that springs to mind).

 

At the end of the day, maybe we actually need to look at re-structuring a Speedway Meeting? For example, it is rare for a number 6/7 to race and win against an opposing team's heat leaders. To this end, why not look at additional heats OTHER than Heat 2 where reserve just races against reserve? None of us want to see a novice/low-scoring rider out-classed. That isn't good for either his confidence, point-scoring potential (and finances) and/or our entertainment. HOWEVER, if we have a reserve that's flying, why not let him still have the potential for more rides? It would also ensure that those heats containing just numbers 1-5 would also potentially be more entertaining.

 

Am I missing something - or is this just something so bleeding obvious, that I've been asking this question to myself for years?