World Cup Race Off - 18th July 2013

[JamieE]

So once again GB's world cup campaign comes to a disappointing end abroad and the post mortem begins. To be fair to Middlo, his decisions have not really had an effect on where GB have finished, the problems with the GB team are deeper than his team selections and tactics (tactically it was probably his best world cup by his standards actually). Still agree with those who think someone else should have the role though.

 

On a positive note I actually thought Bridger showed promise and could still make it, his bikes looked like they were somewhere near quick enough for the big tracks, most unusual amongst the fringe Team GB riders, as shown perfectly by Barker until jumping on Harris’ bike (since when has a rider been overtaken in Heat 1 at Prague?!). Bridger’s riding style looked smooth too and if he can keep getting rides in Poland then he could have a big part to play for GB in years to come. Not forgetting the younger riders who seem to be impressing already like Ellis and Lambert, I just hope they get the support they need to forge a good international career. Just riding the British tracks for years won’t see them reach the potential they’re showing now.

 

Think the Latvians deserve a lot of credit for their performance, to get so close without a joker or any subs was impressive and not as surprising as the commentary kept making out. Look at their league and big individual meeting scores and they’re right in the mix.

[mickthemuppet]

So there was one rider who became world Speedway Champion and there was not one Speedway track in his country. and they certainly had no youth development policy.

[Paragon]

If the BSPA gave a stuff about the long term of the sport they could have bought Newport Stadium of the Mallets and run a speedway centre/school where riders could practice & youngsters could learn . The BSPA could have owned the contracts of the riders they are teaching and could be loaned out to clubs with the loan fees paying for the running of the track.

[Mark]

Barker tried hard but wasn't good enough on the night. Bridger gave it his all and should be patted on the back for what he did as a totally commited rider. Had he not fell when carrying loads of speed and having to shut off when behind the latvian his points total would have been even better. Bomber was poor apart from one win.

[toontrader]

Surely GB should have used the joker at the first opportunity -heat 3 which tai won.

Middleditch said in an interview he wanted to keep it until later and then 'lost' a ride for Harris.

Saw loads of Scottish flags in the virtually empty stadium from fans who had obviously booked to go and see cookie. I saw that he bought a new engine just for the world cup. Barker had to borrow Harris's bike.

Should have gone with the future cook, Worrall and lawson

[Bagpuss]

The BSPA are reaping what they sowed when they didn't let Rob carry out his long term vision unfortunately.

 

Not sure if he would come back with co promoting duties at Lynn but I'd be on the blower to him now. Next year people like Kennett, King and Barker should be nowhere near the squad.....get Cook and Worrall riding abroad every week and build the side around them with Tai and Bridger (not everyone's cup of tea I know but for me he has lots of natural ability and is still young enough). Have Lambert, Ellis, Howarth, Garrity, Birks, Kerr, Blackbird, Nielsen etc in and around the squad learning all the time......they won't all make the grade but give them the chance at least. Get Nicholls and Harris involved in some capacity, if they care about GB they'll buy into it. They have the experience and would be good coaches. Get the team practicing together regularly and riding tests home and away, get some team spirit going.

 

And most importantly get some proper structure to under 15 racing, so that youngsters have more competitive track time. And start trying to recruit moto x riders at a younger age, this is where most of our prospects are coming from but we need to get to them earlier.

 

 

[spanner47]

If we had used some of the sky money to invest in younger riders, take them to Poland and other Countries for test matches, then we might not be in this mess. But sadly, most of the sky money ended up in the bank accounts of foreign riders. We don't know if this would have helped, but at least we'd have tried.

[SPEEDY69]

It was a close meeting last night on typical slick continental track. I thought Bridger showed up ok given the circumstances but Barker & Harris were poor. We're not the only nation struggling, Sweden have little backup to Jonsoon & Lindgren and they have more opportunities for inexperienced riders. To say that we have nothing in the UK is not actually true. There is s thriving amateur scene in the UK with different tracks giving practice and racing opportunities such as STR, Scunthorpe, Dragons, Northside and others.

 

Those riders with the desire and talent will still be able to come through. There were no more opportunities for riders starting out years ago when Britain dominated the world stage in the seventies, in fact possibly less. What is true is that league places are now taken by riders from across Europe that have already reached a certain stage. Reducing the EL schedule here from 40 to 28 meetings does nothing to encourage Brits to move up from the PL, where some of them earn a very tidy packet - and that is different from 40 years ago when most riders had full time jobs elsewhere.

 

Where I disagree from many on here is that simply by chucking inexperienced riders into World Cup meetings will not turn them into credible international riders - in fact it could destroy their confidence and reduce sponsorship openings for them. For a World Cup, you have to pick the best side on current ability. When they're ready they'll get a place.

[Bruiser McHuge]

ok, so no team manager is currently going to win the World Cup with Britain but last night was a shambles....British riders seem to have no idea how to ride these big European circuits which are a world apart from going round Lakeside, Wolves, Rye House etc....it is a different sport ....We have too many small tracks in greyound staduims in Britain which do nothing when trying to ride a Polish or Czech track

The BSPA or whoever should be sending British teams to ride Tests abroad on these type of tracks but they won't because that costs money and they won't or can't spend any of that..

The team selection was a joke...Craig Cook is one of the brightest British talents i have seen for a while..he struggled at Kings Lynn but it was his first cap..he probably would have struggled last night but that is not the point..Barker and Bridger were always going to struggle and they are not the future...tried, tested and failed.....at least let a better rider gain experience which will benefit everyone down the line....poor that..

Cook is not a youngster as such but in speedway terms he is...like John Louis years ago it's not his age it's his experience and he needs that experience...Barker and Bridger are never World Cup riders and never will be...Cook isn't yet either but one day i think he will be and to drop him last night was criminal

 

How many young riders are coming through grasstrack these days ?....i think grasstrack used to prepare riders a lot more for the bigger European circuits...the riders today don't seem to have a clue on those circuits and never will until they ride them more and adapt their equipment accordingly for them..

[Chewbacca]

Everyone knows that that track will be slick and gating will be paramount.

 

Whilst inexperienced, both Cook and Worrall can gate well. On a track where passing was difficult that would have been enough to score more points than the incumbents did.

 

On a general note, it is all a bit like trying to get a job when you're 18. Companies are looking for experienced staff but are not prepeared to give anyone the opportunity to get that experience. GB were never going to win the world cup so we should have been planning for the future.

[StevePark]

There are really some bizarre names being put forward for Team GB Manager here.

Ex riders with no proven aptitude for Management, or even an appetite for it all.

Havelock, Loram and Screen are just complete unknown quatities for the job.

 

Surely the last few years have shown that entusiastic amateurism is worthless.

 

The greatest charge against Middleditch is lack of skill at the job.

I imagine that he did not go for his licence as he feared being the first person in history who would FAIL the test.

 

The greatest need is for COMPETENCE.

I'd go down on bended knee to beg Pete Adams.

 

Mark Lemon doesn't seem to be doing too badly with Australia!

 

Is it just a massive co-incidence that the Cricket team appear to be doing "not too badly" with the limited foriegners in the County sides rule, while the Speedway team and the Football team (with all the foriegners in the leagues) are doing "relatively crap"?

[Bruiser McHuge]

Mark Lemon doesn't seem to be doing too badly with Australia!

 

Is it just a massive co-incidence that the Cricket team appear to be doing "not too badly" with the limited foriegners in the County sides rule, while the Speedway team and the Football team (with all the foriegners in the leagues) are doing "relatively crap"?

 

 

if a British rider is actually going to be good enough for the international stage then they will always find a team spot..no foreigner will keep out genuine talent......run of the mill British riders will be kept out for run of the mill foreigners which can;t be right but genuine talent will always get a place no matter how may foreigners are riding..

Too many small technical tracks, lack of riding abroad and lack of investment in tip top machinery and being in a home country comfort zone is the problem for British riders

[Grand Central]

Mark Lemon doesn't seem to be doing too badly with Australia!

 

No he isn't on the showing of a few matches.

But he is not a test case that proves the claims of others mentioned.

Is he?

 

Life doesn't work like that.

[Star Lady]

Not sure why anyone thinks the BSPA care about how Team GB do in the SWC.

 

They are simply a group of businessmen/women who administer a sport to allow them to make the most profit they can. If the SWC resulted in them making extra profit they would perhaps finance the youngsters development thro test matches and tours etc. As it is, they don't make any extra so can see no merit in forking out for riders to gain experience. Why else didn't they not back Rob Lyon?

 

They use foreigners because they think they will win matches and therefore increase the number of fans thro the gate, they don't give a toss about British riders. That's very short sighted in my view as fans identify far more with a local lad.

 

Middlo is a safe bet for the BSPA, he doesn't rock the boat, makes the right noises when a mic is put under his nose and that's all the BSPA care about. When someone actually wants them to spend money or speaks out against the current non-system they turn the other way. I really can't see that changing.

[ABS]

I said after the KL round on Monday things must be bad if people wanted barker to ride in Prague...getting someone in who'll "give it his all" is all well and good, but without any refinement you'll get nowhere on the big stage. It was incredible in those few hours after the second round how many people just completely forgot how poor Barker (and Bridger) are on the international circuits. I can't remember either of them doing anything of note in any meetings on the continent. I wasn't completely surprised to see how bad we were.

 

Sure, at somewhere like any of the midlands tracks those 4 would have probably been taking the Aussies to a last heat decider with the yanks and Latvians somewhere adrift, but on the continent, we are generally absolutely awful. We've no experience on these big, flat slick tracks. Tai seems to have mastered it, Nicholls had it more or less and Harris in flashes (in the past) did and it was Rico's ace up his sleeve most of the time, from a British perspective.

 

People can bang on about opportunities in the British leagues for British riders till your ears bleed, to an extent they are right, but if they are to be expected to perform on the world stage, they need to be practicing and racing on the continent continually. They can look great banging in the points on the heinz variety tracks in the UK, but show them somewhere big and open with a few European juniors and they're completely ruined.

 

Our boys turn up there without a clue how to set up for the tracks and conditions, can't gate and then get the riding style completely wrong. Bridger and Barker are kicking out and all over the bike, wrestling it like its a greasy weasel, as if the dirt is a foot deep with ruts and holes all over the place, whilst all the other riders let the bike flow and keep a smooth line on the slick, sweeping curves, keeping momentum up and the bike pointing forward.

 

People are surprised the Latvians did so well...tracks like that are all they know though! Some have said that some promoters will be getting them in their phone books to get over here. You'd be a fool to think they'd ride like that the instant you get them over here though. Most tracks here would be completely alien to them. Sure a couple might get the hang of them after a while, but it won't matter much to them because they'll be earning the big money and growing their presence on the world stage on the tracks in Europe.

 

Yes we can blood through some talent in the British league, but don't expect them to turn world class overnight by just staying here.

 

So, in a nutshell, the sooner the new stadium at Belle Vue comes to fruition, the better. This is going to be styled on the old Hyde Road / Polish tracks and will give us a facility where we can develop British talent.

 

Getting a maximum around Lakeside/Wolves/Belle Vue has no relevance at all when looking at the continental tracks. We've seen a World U-21 champion recently look like a novice at Wolverhampton and then perform really well in the SWC for Poland.

 

PC and Michael Lee were both world champions and used to ride on big British tracks, which set them up well for what they found on the continent. Hopefully, our time will come again

[SteveLyric2]

Not sure why anyone thinks the BSPA care about how Team GB do in the SWC.

 

They are simply a group of businessmen/women who administer a sport to allow them to make the most profit they can. If the SWC resulted in them making extra profit they would perhaps finance the youngsters development thro test matches and tours etc. As it is, they don't make any extra so can see no merit in forking out for riders to gain experience. Why else didn't they not back Rob Lyon?

 

They use foreigners because they think they will win matches and therefore increase the number of fans thro the gate, they don't give a toss about British riders. That's very short sighted in my view as fans identify far more with a local lad.

 

Middlo is a safe bet for the BSPA, he doesn't rock the boat, makes the right noises when a mic is put under his nose and that's all the BSPA care about. When someone actually wants them to spend money or speaks out against the current non-system they turn the other way. I really can't see that changing.

I don't see why the BSPA should have (or want) the responsibility of the National team - whatever its called??! For most of them it doesn't do anything for their day-to-day speedway businesses either in the short or long term under current rules!! Maybe the ACU or this new 'Parliamentary Speedway Group' should take it under their wing, with separate management, development, training, sponsorship and funding!!?

Edited July 19, 2013 by Skidder1

[jim3751]

So we need to put the kids in? Right.Do it next year and give the critics what they want. Barker used Harris's bike and was immediately quicker. Will the youngsters have the better machinery and who will pay for it? Has Harris got as much sponsorship now as he had when doing the GPs? Is that why he's now on the slide?

 

Middlo clearly refers to the need to gate. Fall behind and you're a dead duck. Harris now openly admits he's a poor gater - after all this time. So did he ever work on it? Tai has applied himself and is now reaping the benefits but even he was caught in the the wrong place at the wrong time on a couple of occasions - shut out on turn 2 - and no amount of speed could catch the rider in front on a track like that. I'll be recording it on Saturday so I should be able to knock it out in about an hour.

 

Slagging off our riders is all well and good but how many Czechs and Russians show up well over here? So bring on the Latvians.

[The Know]

 

 

And tell us all what Tatum would do differently to what is being done now with the riders at Neils disposal??

 

Didnt to much for Scott when he brought him into the gp to try and turn his dire performaces round. Would be terrible choice

[Fromafar]

So we need to put the kids in? Right.Do it next year and give the critics what they want. Barker used Harris's bike and was immediately quicker. Will the youngsters have the better machinery and who will pay for it? Has Harris got as much sponsorship now as he had when doing the GPs? Is that why he's now on the slide?

 

Middlo clearly refers to the need to gate. Fall behind and you're a dead duck. Harris now openly admits he's a poor gater - after all this time. So did he ever work on it? Tai has applied himself and is now reaping the benefits but even he was caught in the the wrong place at the wrong time on a couple of occasions - shut out on turn 2 - and no amount of speed could catch the rider in front on a track like that. I'll be recording it on Saturday so I should be able to knock it out in about an hour.

 

Slagging off our riders is all well and good but how many Czechs and Russians show up well over here? So bring on the Latvians.

Its not a forward step in their career for Foriegn riders to ride in UK these days ,but it would be for Brit to ride abroad.The off -track antics of of the Young Brits in recent years MIGHT tell us something though.

[KevtheRev]

The BSPA are reaping what they sowed when they didn't let Rob carry out his long term vision unfortunately.

 

Not sure if he would come back with co promoting duties at Lynn but I'd be on the blower to him now. Next year people like Kennett, King and Barker should be nowhere near the squad.....get Cook and Worrall riding abroad every week and build the side around them with Tai and Bridger (not everyone's cup of tea I know but for me he has lots of natural ability and is still young enough). Have Lambert, Ellis, Howarth, Garrity, Birks, Kerr, Blackbird, Nielsen etc in and around the squad learning all the time......they won't all make the grade but give them the chance at least. Get Nicholls and Harris involved in some capacity, if they care about GB they'll buy into it. They have the experience and would be good coaches. Get the team practicing together regularly and riding tests home and away, get some team spirit going.

 

And most importantly get some proper structure to under 15 racing, so that youngsters have more competitive track time. And start trying to recruit moto x riders at a younger age, this is where most of our prospects are coming from but we need to get to them earlier.

 

Well said that man !