World Cup Race Off - 18th July 2013

[JC!]

Whilst 4th place was a disaster, and couldn't have been predicted, I don't believe that anyone would have done a great deal better than Middlo. There are many things that could have been done better, but if you don't have the riders available you wont make a mark even if you get every decision right.

 

I know it is a bit 'left field' in terms of management experience but I would like to see the likes of Mark Loram and Joe Screen given a role within the structure of the national team - they know what it takes to ride successfully on the continent, seem to have the respect of the young riders, and would bring some fun and passion back into the GB race jacket. The saddest thing of the whole SWC for me was that we were represented by what outwardly appeared to be such a surly, miserable bunch (Tai excluded).

[jimmy jimmy]

This year was too early for Cook, Worral, Birks, Howarth et al. They may get there, I believe Cook and Worrall will, the other two not too sure about yet. I don't know why Nicholls didn't want to ride, but our best team just weren't there. Danny King, whilst not GP standard, is good enough to do a better job than Lads still plying their trade in the PL.

 

In a couple of years, Tai, Harris, Worrall, Cook and Lambert may be an ok team, not Poland or Denmark, but not too bad.

[waiheke1]

Middlo has made massive mistakes tonight? Why take Bomber out of his ride when he scored 5 from his last 2? If you wanted to use the joker then use him. That would have gave Tai an xtra ride later on. Bizzare pulling out your 2nd best rider.

Then replaces our 2nd best rider to put Tai in on a joker against the best rider of the night in Hancock!!!

i'm no fan of Middlo, but to criticize his use of the joker seems harsh.

if you left harris in and he finished ahead of woodward, then you wouldn't have been able to use tai as a tactical in heat 15 as we wouldn't have been 6 points behind, and then tai was in heat 16 anyway (and hancock in that also). and you cant use the tac ride or joker after heat 16 is my understanding.

. He picks Kennett, to obvious consternation from the masses, but then shows no faith in his selection during the meeting.

because it's a ridiculous decistion to use your tactical and joker rides to replace your weakest rider with your to strongest? again, i'm no middlo fan and he has made mistakes, but i think his use of the tac riders in the swc have been pretty much the oviocus and correct ones (i know i disagreed wtih scb around the timing of the harris ride, but not the principle of replacing two kennet rised with tai and bomber)

 

my thoughts:

firstly, obviously disapointed as this was our best chance in the near future to get a medal, and finishing below latvia and usa is well below how i thought we would do.

 

like many i would have picked worral over kennet, and retained cook for the gaters paradise of prague.

But, at the current time we have tai who is world class, bomber who is still internastional class, and then a bunch with not much between them. no guarantee that if middlo had selected differently we ould ahve done better. if we ere going to make the final we reslly needed tai to perform as hancock did (not a criticiasm of tai), and that bridger and barker needed to outperform woodward.

looking ahead, cook and worral will hopefully become international class, but it shard to see them becoming world class. to win the swc i'd say at a minimum you need two world class riders, and to inetrnational class. the hope has got to be that young lambert fulfills his potential, cook and worral likewise, and maybe uin five years time we could challenge for honours.

on cook's outburst, while its a little disapointing, at the same time at leats it shows passion so not neccesarily a bad thing (a little like when footballers sulk when subbed, in some ways its better than a player not caring), and hopefully he will be back in the team next year.

[Grand Central]

There are really some bizarre names being put forward for Team GB Manager here.

Ex riders with no proven aptitude for Management, or even an appetite for it all.

Havelock, Loram and Screen are just complete unknown quatities for the job.

 

Surely the last few years have shown that entusiastic amateurism is worthless.

 

The greatest charge against Middleditch is lack of skill at the job.

I imagine that he did not go for his licence as he feared being the first person in history who would FAIL the test.

 

The greatest need is for COMPETENCE.

I'd go down on bended knee to beg Pete Adams.

[JC!]

There are really some bizarre names being put forward for Team GB Manager here.

Ex riders with no proven aptitude for Management, or even an appetite for it all.

Havelock, Loram and Screen are just complete unknown quatities for the job.

 

Surely the last few years have shown that entusiastic amateurism is worthless.

 

The greatest need is for COMPETENCE.

I'd go down on bended knee to beg Pete Adams.

 

Please re-read my post re. Screen and Loram, I acknowledged the lack of management experience and suggested 'a role for them within the structure', I most certainly did not suggest them as Team GB manager.

 

By the way, didn't Billy Hamill seem to get his team motivated and pulling in the same direction.........

[Grand Central]

Please re-read my post re. Screen and Loram, I acknowledged the lack of management experience and suggested 'a role for them within the structure', I most certainly did not suggest them as Team GB manager.

 

By the way, didn't Billy Hamill seem to get his team motivated and pulling in the same direction.........

 

Yes fair enough., I see that.

The lads you mention were great at what they did.

But I genuinely don't see an ounce of help they could offer.

Top ex-riders don't always move to good communicators, or Managers.

Joe and Gary are not good at motivational speaking really are they?

 

Individual world titles, yes.

But not one successful Team GB year to look back on for any of them.

Most of the WTC teams they were involved in as riders were disappointing and much maligned.

Remember that embarrassing 93 final at Coventry.

 

To be honest Tatum would be a better ex-rider to go for.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Grand Central

[Starman2006]

To be honest Tatum would be a better ex-rider to go for.

 

And tell us all what Tatum would do differently to what is being done now with the riders at Neils disposal??

Edited July 18, 2013 by Starman2006

[Rico]

I would beg forgiveness and.get Rob Lyon back on board.

 

Let him carry out his vision.

[SCB]

By Middlos standards he did an ok job tonight. The riders let him down, every one of them. How many lasts has Tai had in the GPs? That last was pretty big in the scheme of things. Why is Doyle and Woodward could step it up couldn't Bridger and Barker?

 

Even I think Middlo was pissing in the wind!

 

Let's start again, at the bottom. Let have a test series against the Swedes, the Russians, the Latvians. Frankly the Germans, Finns and Norweigans. idiot clashing with EL, Poland, Sweden etc. We need to get our riders riding abroad. Get rid of doubling up after a season it's not helping. It's allowed Barker and Cook to be complaisant.

 

As for Havvy. HaHaHa. Rob Lyon and Phil Morris.

Edited July 18, 2013 by SCB

[Grand Central]

And tell us all what Tatum would do differently to what is being done now with the riders at Neils disposal??

 

No I won't .

As I don't think I ever offered any opinion whatsoever on that matter.

That is a construct of your own making.

 

Difficult for some of us though it may be.

I think with a litlle counselling we will have to get used to Team GB without Neil.

He must be allowed to move away.

There is nothing more he can or could do.

[nw42]

And tell us all what Tatum would do differently to what is being done now with the riders at Neils disposal??

 

Bit oversensitive there if you don't mind me saying Neil. The way I saw it he was using Tatum as an alternative to Screen or Havvy ey al, he's right as well imo.

 

But you probably knew that eh...

[diamond_ren]

Just got what we deserved in the end nothing absolutely pathetic! I don't care if you had King and Nicholls in so maybe we'd have won it and got through to the final then been embarrassed in the final like usual and you would've had people on complaining you don't give the kids a chance... cant win. The whole structure of English speedway needs completely restructuring until then we will be embarrassing in world cups etc. Next year go with Woffy, Worrall, Cook and Birks/Lambert someone like this the danes tried and to be honest we cant do as bad as we have this year or previous years

[Speedy swindon pete]

I said after the KL round on Monday things must be bad if people wanted barker to ride in Prague...getting someone in who'll "give it his all" is all well and good, but without any refinement you'll get nowhere on the big stage. It was incredible in those few hours after the second round how many people just completely forgot how poor Barker (and Bridger) are on the international circuits. I can't remember either of them doing anything of note in any meetings on the continent. I wasn't completely surprised to see how bad we were.

 

Sure, at somewhere like any of the midlands tracks those 4 would have probably been taking the Aussies to a last heat decider with the yanks and Latvians somewhere adrift, but on the continent, we are generally absolutely awful. We've no experience on these big, flat slick tracks. Tai seems to have mastered it, Nicholls had it more or less and Harris in flashes (in the past) did and it was Rico's ace up his sleeve most of the time, from a British perspective.

 

People can bang on about opportunities in the British leagues for British riders till your ears bleed, to an extent they are right, but if they are to be expected to perform on the world stage, they need to be practicing and racing on the continent continually. They can look great banging in the points on the heinz variety tracks in the UK, but show them somewhere big and open with a few European juniors and they're completely ruined.

 

Our boys turn up there without a clue how to set up for the tracks and conditions, can't gate and then get the riding style completely wrong. Bridger and Barker are kicking out and all over the bike, wrestling it like its a greasy weasel, as if the dirt is a foot deep with ruts and holes all over the place, whilst all the other riders let the bike flow and keep a smooth line on the slick, sweeping curves, keeping momentum up and the bike pointing forward.

 

People are surprised the Latvians did so well...tracks like that are all they know though! Some have said that some promoters will be getting them in their phone books to get over here. You'd be a fool to think they'd ride like that the instant you get them over here though. Most tracks here would be completely alien to them. Sure a couple might get the hang of them after a while, but it won't matter much to them because they'll be earning the big money and growing their presence on the world stage on the tracks in Europe.

 

Yes we can blood through some talent in the British league, but don't expect them to turn world class overnight by just staying here.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Speedy swindon pete

[A ORLOV]

By Middlos standards he did an ok job tonight. The riders let him down, every one of them. How many lasts has Tai had in the GPs? That last was pretty big in the scheme of things. Why is Doyle and Woodward could step it up couldn't Bridger and Barker?

 

Even I think Middlo was pissing in the wind!

 

Let's start again, at the bottom. Let have a test series against the Swedes, the Russians, the Latvians. Frankly the Germans, Finns and Norweigans. idiot clashing with EL, Poland, Sweden etc. We need to get our riders riding abroad. Get rid of doubling up after a season it's not helping. It's allowed Barker and Cook to be complaisant.

 

As for Havvy. HaHaHa. Rob Lyon and Phil Morris.

Also add to the above if a new tv contract is negotiated that a percentage of the income is kept back to purchase or rent a track where the youngsters can learn, have leagues for youngsters as they do abroad, pay for the likes of Loram etc to help with the younger riders to race against youngsters from abroad in mini test matches both here and abroad on the big European tracks as they become more experienced.

 

The series that is taking place between GB and Aus with pl riders is a start, but there needs to be a lot more done. Unfortunately the Sky money does not seem to have been spent wisely and I do not know if the BSPA is the right organisation to set something up as their record to date has not been good.

 

It may be too late to bring back test matches for established riders with all the teams they ride for and the GPs, but they could do it for the youngsters, if an income stream to pay for it can be secured.

Edited July 18, 2013 by A ORLOV

[david2905]

Whoever we put in isn't up to the task in all honesty, and I doubt chucking in some youngsters is the answer either, ok they haven't let us down before, but do you see anything in them to suggest they are Grand Prix material ?.

 

I would suggest steps to nuture and develop some decent talent after 10 years or so, but have zero faith in our promoters and associations to actually implement such things if it doesn't offer an instant fix to their rider and financial issues.

 

British Speedway is in dire straights currently, lack of money, lack and talent and lack of interest, and it's a vicious circle that's extremely difficult to fix one of those problems without having the others available.

[orion]

 

 

And tell us all what Tatum would do differently to what is being done now with the riders at Neils disposal??

Not get beat by USA.

[uk_martin]

Latvia, a country with only one speedway track but with a will to win and a youth development program that is producing results.

 

GB with it's "Elite" League, "Premier" League and National League and a population 10 times bigger and we get well and truly stuffed.

 

When this Sky deal comes to an end we need a Day Zero approach to the sport in this country.

[TheReturn]

Latvia, a country with only one speedway track but with a will to win and a youth development program that is producing results.

 

GB with it's "Elite" League, "Premier" League and National League and a population 10 times bigger and we get well and truly stuffed.

 

When this Sky deal comes to an end we need a Day Zero approach to the sport in this country.

 

Well and truly stuffed? We got beat. narrowly, not stuffed.

[Dave_minall]

Is it just me or did anyone else think that we should have given Worral a chance at Kings Lynn? Granted he is VERY inexperienced at this level, but Lynn is his home track. Couldn't have done much worse than Kennett did.

 

Also, Please Middlo (or whoever ends up as GB team manager next year) - give some of our younger riders a go. At least then if it goes ** up it's because we're chucking our youth in at the deep end to give them experience at this level.

[speedwaysliders]

THINK this pic on middlos twitter page gives the game away!!!! .Not a GB racesuit in view but a couple of AUSSIE SUITS hanging there that middlo has just cleaned in Middlo towers.!!!

 

https://twitter.com/middlo57

Edited July 18, 2013 by speedwaysliders