Why No Speedway Track...?

[Tsunami]

Plenty of motorsport events are held outwith the jurisdiction of the official governing bodies, and the trend is increasing of late. There's a lot of scaremongering about untrained officials and lack of insurance etc.. but even officially licensed circuits can and indeed do run both sanctioned and unsanctioned events. I'd agree it's easier to get insurance if events are run under the auspices of some sort of sanctioning body, but there are alternatives to the ACU and MSA.

 

Whilst I'd agree that official governing bodies do perform some useful roles, in my experience they've lost sight of the realities of the amateur levels of motorsport and expect everything to be run along the lines of F1 or MotoGP. I therefore don't think that having alternatives is at all unreasonable, because at amateur levels the option may in some cases be no motorsport at all.

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks. In 'black' events the same standards and provisions are not usually prevalent and in say dog racing, standards and medical provisions are or were not up to scratch and inadequate. These are the problems with black events. Who says what is safe and fair, and the promoters probably just run it for the profits made by not paying for provisions not provided. Where do the competitors come from. If they are motor cyclist trying a form of speedway, Ok, so be it on their heads. If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured. If he is uninsured, or has poor insurance, it is bound to impact on the time he is going to be out or affects the quality of his gear that he can't repair/replace back to the original standard. The only time alternative promoters could be allowed to run meetings, is if they maintain the same standards(including air fence, etc), same medical facilities, and recognised and trained officials who know what they are doing, and have the appropriate insurance for riders, officials and public liability.

 

I seem to remember the worrying comments that Oxford speedway fans made on here when a Dirt Track meeting was held at Oxford, and most of the likes of the fence had been removed after closure of the speedway there.

[Ray Stadia]

Agree it looks a nice track and set up,but there are about 50 people there and I guess most are friends and family.Just like a Danish 1st division meeting,only the standard of racing is much poorer.It is hard to charge people for that level.In Denmark those meetings are free

 

I don't disagree with the idea.The problem with running outside of the BSPA/ACU is where are the riders coming from?They would be amateurs I guess.OK like scb said the locals wouldn't know the difference at first.But after a meeting or two you can at that level have a big difference and see that some guys or girls can hardly get round the bends and it doesn't really have much of a future....Maybe looking at the big picture of this whole venture they could afford to run meetings at a loss though,and they can attract a few youngsters who would progress to league speedway......

The riders at Lydd are amateurs. They do have the odd meeting, but just for fun. The main purpose is training. I believe they do have ex riders riding there and ex riders helping out and giving advice. Yes, it is a 'track in a field', but it gives a lot of people a lot of pleasure, which in my opinion, is what it is all about.

[25yearfan]

I agree that had Tim Stone still been alive today then Newport speedway would still be running!

 

That said as I've argued with Vince on here in the past about, Tim Stones rude abrupt non delegating nature with fans, sponsors and track staff played a massive part in Newport speedways decline because he drove hundreds of people away from the club!

 

I'm aware that after a club opens or reopens, the novelty factor means that interest is high and this eventually wanes over the years but in Newports case this was accelerated much faster than it should have been!

 

The Mallets indeed tryed but so much damage had been done by that stage. But in their case, in the end didn't want their egos damaged by selling much of the stadium for scrap instead of letting Phil Morris have a go at it, a guy in my opinion could have made a go of it!

 

Newport speedway at Queensway Meadows to me is a very frustrating tale cause it was purpose built for speedway with little restrictions in an area that had a decent hardcore support.

 

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

[uk_martin]

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks.

 

The one obvious difficulty in running a speedway meeting at a "black track" is who is going to referee it? All referees belong to the SCB, and of course that's the organisation that is being by-passed,

 

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

[SCB]

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

I've just tweeted a couple of photos of the "stadium" as it stands now.

 

https://twitter.com/shawncbrown/status/687401891169480704

https://twitter.com/shawncbrown/status/687401929970987008

[Humphrey Appleby]

Where do the competitors come from.

Licensed competitors can compete in both sanctioned and unsanctioned motor sport events. As with anything in motor sport, the competitor does so at their own risk, but one assumes most of the competitors at these sort of events would be amateurs anyway.

 

I fully agree that running under an official body should be preferable, and my own take is that unsanctioned events often run under the technical and safety regulations developed by the official body anyway, which I think is slightly immoral. Equally though, for amateur events the permit costs are pretty high (in our case one third of our entry fees), the MSA didn't even have proper regulations to cover our specific discipline and we had to develop a lot of them ourselves, and then they put roadblocks in the way of running events on spurious safety grounds (one being that it's effectively impossible to run events under floodlights). There's all sorts of other daft regulations about incompatibility of officials which make sense at higher levels, but fail to take into account that amateur events usually have a shortage of volunteers, and that most of the time it's competitors organising things themselves.

 

I know my colleagues running bike events have similar issues with the ACU, but the autotrackers seem to manage without any of the official bodies.

 

If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured.

Where professional riders can and can't ride is a matter for who they're contracted to. I don't think it's unreasonable for BSPA promoters to insist their riders only compete on ACU/SCB licensed circuits and in BSPA sanctioned meetings, but I do think it unreasonable if the BSPA is claiming exclusivity on running speedway in Britain, especially at amateur level.

[uk_martin]

..but I do think it unreasonable if the BSPA is claiming exclusivity on running speedway in Britain, especially at amateur level.

 

I don't think that they do. My understanding is that speedway in Great Britain is run by the SCB by authority of the ACU, who in turn are the recognised authority by the FIM.

 

The BSPA's job is to run the leagues and the competitions within the leagues.

[Ray Stadia]

 

The one obvious difficulty in running a speedway meeting at a "black track" is who is going to referee it? All referees belong to the SCB, and of course that's the organisation that is being by-passed,

 

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

It's all very well taking 'the Michael', but my point is and I believe I am correct, Lydd and SITRA (Iwade) are run outside of the BSPA and probably the ACU and SCB, therefore, it is already happening and therefore could happen at the new venture in Wales. If the new venture are to hold track days for road racers and racing cars, why not for speedway bikes? (obviously on a speedway track!).

[Vince]

Yes, but the whole thing brings in what are called 'black' tracks. In 'black' events the same standards and provisions are not usually prevalent and in say dog racing, standards and medical provisions are or were not up to scratch and inadequate. These are the problems with black events. Who says what is safe and fair, and the promoters probably just run it for the profits made by not paying for provisions not provided. Where do the competitors come from. If they are motor cyclist trying a form of speedway, Ok, so be it on their heads. If he is a licensed rider to a BSPA run team, he will have signed a contract to ride exclusively for them, hence the reason why guest rides have to be asked for via the promotion. What would you think if you had a rider under contract, and he gets hurt riding in a black meeting, damaged his gear and is unable to ride for you because he is injured. If he is uninsured, or has poor insurance, it is bound to impact on the time he is going to be out or affects the quality of his gear that he can't repair/replace back to the original standard. The only time alternative promoters could be allowed to run meetings, is if they maintain the same standards(including air fence, etc), same medical facilities, and recognised and trained officials who know what they are doing, and have the appropriate insurance for riders, officials and public liability.

 

I seem to remember the worrying comments that Oxford speedway fans made on here when a Dirt Track meeting was held at Oxford, and most of the likes of the fence had been removed after closure of the speedway there.

 

First thing I should address is the Dirt track at Oxford. I rode in the last meeting held there and all the safety fence and all other requirements of the ACU were met, in fact the club was still affiliated to the ACU at that time. The only comments I remember were from Chris Brown about shale getting onto the dog track and that was because it was very windy and the covers were difficult to keep down. At no time have I ever seen Dirt track racing held where safety wasn't a priority and if anything the rules have been tightened up since affiliating to the MCF. I'm way too old and too experienced in the ways of motorcycle racing to involve myself with anything that didn't take safety seriously.

 

I think the days have long gone where the ACU were the only people capable of running safe, good quality meetings. There are other federations out there now who can do as well and in many cases better, they train officials to at least the same standard as the ACU, carry equivalent or better insurance and have many years of experience behind them. Generally they are set up because somebody has reached the end of their tether with the ACU not meeting the needs of their members.

 

For something like the track we are talking about it is difficult to see what benefit they gain from joining the ACU, SCB, BSPA with the costs involved if they have no intention of running league meetings. If somebody wants to run a Speedway meeting under a different affiliation why shouldn't they? The ACU will try and bully riders by threatening to revoke their licences but that would be illegal as proven in court somewhere around 40 years ago by the AMCA. More recently that threat was made about anybody riding at Lydd, they did nothing except wonder why their members view them with suspicion. If you want to run league meetings or involve yourself in International meetings then the ACU is the only option. If you want to run a training track with perhaps the odd meeting thrown in then in my opinion there are better options. Those options are in some cases very professional, very well run federations who are already running some of the biggest meetings in off road motorcycle sport in the UK.

 

The BSPA could I suppose reach a gentlemans agreement not to use riders who compete outside the ACU. However that would run the risk of opening the can of worms that is the asset/ self employed status of riders. They would be far better treating it like a rider who competes in the odd Grasstrack or Motocross and ignoring it. You never know somebody else might just come up with some good ideas that they can copy.

[Humphrey Appleby]

So if it's going to be done amateurishly, then why not pass on the job of officiating to a committee of BSF "scribes"? After all, who knows better than the people on here?

I'm quite confident that I could run amateur speedway as well as the ACU, and that I know the regulations better than some licensed officials. I've not refereed speedway, but I have clerked other motor sport events.

[Tsunami]

 

First thing I should address is the Dirt track at Oxford. I rode in the last meeting held there and all the safety fence and all other requirements of the ACU were met, in fact the club was still affiliated to the ACU at that time. The only comments I remember were from Chris Brown about shale getting onto the dog track and that was because it was very windy and the covers were difficult to keep down. At no time have I ever seen Dirt track racing held where safety wasn't a priority and if anything the rules have been tightened up since affiliating to the MCF. I'm way too old and too experienced in the ways of motorcycle racing to involve myself with anything that didn't take safety seriously.

 

I think the days have long gone where the ACU were the only people capable of running safe, good quality meetings. There are other federations out there now who can do as well and in many cases better, they train officials to at least the same standard as the ACU, carry equivalent or better insurance and have many years of experience behind them. Generally they are set up because somebody has reached the end of their tether with the ACU not meeting the needs of their members.

 

For something like the track we are talking about it is difficult to see what benefit they gain from joining the ACU, SCB, BSPA with the costs involved if they have no intention of running league meetings. If somebody wants to run a Speedway meeting under a different affiliation why shouldn't they? The ACU will try and bully riders by threatening to revoke their licences but that would be illegal as proven in court somewhere around 40 years ago by the AMCA. More recently that threat was made about anybody riding at Lydd, they did nothing except wonder why their members view them with suspicion. If you want to run league meetings or involve yourself in International meetings then the ACU is the only option. If you want to run a training track with perhaps the odd meeting thrown in then in my opinion there are better options. Those options are in some cases very professional, very well run federations who are already running some of the biggest meetings in off road motorcycle sport in the UK.

 

The BSPA could I suppose reach a gentlemans agreement not to use riders who compete outside the ACU. However that would run the risk of opening the can of worms that is the asset/ self employed status of riders. They would be far better treating it like a rider who competes in the odd Grasstrack or Motocross and ignoring it. You never know somebody else might just come up with some good ideas that they can copy.

I seem to remember that a fan reported on here, that they had been down to the track and part of the safety fence had been removed, and they questioned how they were going to get away with it with only days to go before the meeting. Perhaps there was a rethink and the fence was re-elected.

[MC7]

I seem to remember that a fan reported on here, that they had been down to the track and part of the safety fence had been removed, and they questioned how they were going to get away with it with only days to go before the meeting. Perhaps there was a rethink and the fence was re-elected.

The issue with the safety fence at Oxford for that last Flat Track meeting was that the safety fence on the bends was altered at the end of the 2003 season to accommodate the new air fences, which were made compulsory at Elite League tracks in 2004.

In order to maintain the width of the track, the original fence was removed and a new structure was fitted 50cm or so further back, just using solid scaffolding poles as posts with a weld mesh to mount the air fence to, therefore making the new fence unsafe without an air fence in front of it.

 

This was the concern with using the track without an air fence

Edited January 15, 2016 by mc7

[gee jay]

I agree that had Tim Stone still been alive today then Newport speedway would still be running!

 

That said as I've argued with Vince on here in the past about, Tim Stones rude abrupt non delegating nature with fans, sponsors and track staff played a massive part in Newport speedways decline because he drove hundreds of people away from the club!

 

I'm aware that after a club opens or reopens, the novelty factor means that interest is high and this eventually wanes over the years but in Newports case this was accelerated much faster than it should have been!

 

The Mallets indeed tryed but so much damage had been done by that stage. But in their case, in the end didn't want their egos damaged by selling much of the stadium for scrap instead of letting Phil Morris have a go at it, a guy in my opinion could have made a go of it!

 

Newport speedway at Queensway Meadows to me is a very frustrating tale cause it was purpose built for speedway with little restrictions in an area that had a decent hardcore support.

 

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

 

I agree that had Tim Stone still been alive today then Newport speedway would still be running!

 

That said as I've argued with Vince on here in the past about, Tim Stones rude abrupt non delegating nature with fans, sponsors and track staff played a massive part in Newport speedways decline because he drove hundreds of people away from the club!

 

I'm aware that after a club opens or reopens, the novelty factor means that interest is high and this eventually wanes over the years but in Newports case this was accelerated much faster than it should have been!

 

The Mallets indeed tryed but so much damage had been done by that stage. But in their case, in the end didn't want their egos damaged by selling much of the stadium for scrap instead of letting Phil Morris have a go at it, a guy in my opinion could have made a go of it!

 

Newport speedway at Queensway Meadows to me is a very frustrating tale cause it was purpose built for speedway with little restrictions in an area that had a decent hardcore support.

 

What has become of the land the stadium once stood on?

absolutely spot on. i lost count of the people that tim said " if you don't like it don't come" and they didn't. mind you the mallets had upset a fare few during tim's reign so they wouldn't come back and let the club die, even most of the long time heat sponsors . i also think somerset had a lot to do with it. there was a massive amount of duel supporters and when somerset were improving both track and facilities and the rivalry grew, when money got tighter people picked one team. bspa sh*t on us by giving the pairs to somerset the night before cardiff we lost the revenue from a massive crowd when tim only had to pay out for a normal league meeting, that was a big loss on food alone never mind thousands in gate money.

Edited January 16, 2016 by gee jay

[Tsunami]

The issue with the safety fence at Oxford for that last Flat Track meeting was that the safety fence on the bends was altered at the end of the 2003 season to accommodate the new air fences, which were made compulsory at Elite League tracks in 2004.

In order to maintain the width of the track, the original fence was removed and a new structure was fitted 50cm or so further back, just using solid scaffolding poles as posts with a weld mesh to mount the air fence to, therefore making the new fence unsafe without an air fence in front of it.

 

This was the concern with using the track without an air fence

Many thanks for that mc7. I remembered the concerns expressed on here about how safe the track/fence was going to be.

 

absolutely spot on. i lost count of the people that tim said " if you don't like it don't come" and they didn't. mind you the mallets had upset a fare few during tim's rein so they wouldn't come back and let the club die, even most of the long time heat sponsors . i also think somerset had a lot to do with it. there was a massive amount of duel supporters and when somerset were improving both track and facilities and the rivalry grew, when money got tighter people picked one team. bspa sh*t on us by giving the pairs to somerset the night before cardiff we lost the revenue from a massive crowd when tim only had to pay out for a normal league meeting, that was a big loss on food alone never mind thousands in gate money.

Quite agree about the loss of the Friday meeting. It was starting to become a regular feature of the weekend, and I seem to remember it used to be Glasgow that was the regular opposition.

[2ndBender]

I personally don't think Speedway will ever be staged in Newport again. There's no site and no promoter. More importantly, perhaps, there are not enough people in the city who want it! The fan base that existed in the Somerton Park era, and in the early years of Queensway Meadows, have grown up, died or just lost interest, and the younger kids don't even know what Speedway is. As I've said on here before, if it doesn't involve the use of a ball, forget it! And Speedway in Ebbw Vale....??!! Not a chance!

[Vince]

The issue with the safety fence at Oxford for that last Flat Track meeting was that the safety fence on the bends was altered at the end of the 2003 season to accommodate the new air fences, which were made compulsory at Elite League tracks in 2004.

In order to maintain the width of the track, the original fence was removed and a new structure was fitted 50cm or so further back, just using solid scaffolding poles as posts with a weld mesh to mount the air fence to, therefore making the new fence unsafe without an air fence in front of it.

 

This was the concern with using the track without an air fence

 

To be honest don't remember this being on here if it was at the last meeting and obviously didn't notice an issue at the track. Fact still remains the meeting was run under the ACU and therefore isn't an example of what could go wrong if they aren't involved.

[Gatwick Rocket]

Just seen this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35526111

[MattK]

Looks like the Welsh Government are pulling out

 

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/news-detail/welsh-assembly-pull-plug-on-circuit-of-wales-backing

[MrBeanti]

Has there been any discussions regarding continuing the Wasps as a Second Half Team? Exeter have done this with great success. From living in Exeter it certainly meant there was media interest and growing support for the club to return. I'm not as knowledgable as a lot of you when it comes to how a club is run and the work that goes on behind the scenes so it may not be viable... Just a thought...

[longlivefrankie]

Has there been any discussions regarding continuing the Wasps as a Second Half Team? Exeter have done this with great success. From living in Exeter it certainly meant there was media interest and growing support for the club to return. I'm not as knowledgable as a lot of you when it comes to how a club is run and the work that goes on behind the scenes so it may not be viable... Just a thought...

 

Ive often wondered that I guess it needs someone or a few people with enough passion to do it

I'm sure a few second half meetings at Somerset or Swindon testing the water might be an idea

 

I followed the wasps from 64-77 then 97 till they closed

 

Only attended British GPs and a few other big meetings and one meeting at new belle vue since

 

I would be tempted by a wasps outfit running somewhere

 

 

 

Time has gone on now and as someone else posted speedway is losing any grip it had in the city

Edited August 4, 2016 by Ken Morgan