Injuries

[oldace]

BRIGGO still has more knowledge about the characteristics of a speedway bike in his little finger than most could dream of. Ever since the new silencers came in a variety of riders, including some who use Peter Johns as their tuner, will tell you that they are much more difficult to ride and therefore potentially more dangerous. Even a slight lag in a speedway engine picking up or maintaining its revs, which is fundamental to how they react, can cause problems.

 

 

Short stroke motors and super lightweight flywheels dont help though, it may get to peak revs pretty darn quick but will die a death as it hits any resistance, i.e dirt. For a rider only a few feet from a fence and going the wrong direction this is a mega problem, by the time the bikes got back enough revs to slide the back wheel and make a turn the rider is already under the fence

[SCB]

Short stroke motors and super lightweight flywheels dont help though, it may get to peak revs pretty darn quick but will die a death as it hits any resistance, i.e dirt. For a rider only a few feet from a fence and going the wrong direction this is a mega problem, by the time the bikes got back enough revs to slide the back wheel and make a turn the rider is already under the fence

And there you have hit a snag. Riders want safer but also want faster/quicker/easier to win on. The reality is, as with everything in life, is striking a balance.

[Bream]

Different tyre types isnt really what speedway needs. It would not lower the price of tyres needed and would only raise the budget needed. After speedway I rode motocross just or fun and thought about racing also. Found out that you need 3-4 sets of tyres to different surfaces (deep sand, hard clay, hard packed soil..). 150-200 euros per set. It would not make racing any worse if there would have been only one tyre type. But with specific tyres for every condition it is like Cold War, you have to have them to be competitive.

[The Know]

BRIGGO still has more knowledge about the characteristics of a speedway bike in his little finger than most could dream of. Ever since the new silencers came in a variety of riders, including some who use Peter Johns as their tuner, will tell you that they are much more difficult to ride and therefore potentially more dangerous. Even a slight lag in a speedway engine picking up or maintaining its revs, which is fundamental to how they react, can cause problems.

 

Few if any speedway tracks have a completely consistent race surface which only compounds the problems.

 

Stand next to Kelvin Tatum at a GP practice and he can tell you just by listening how an engine is performing. Just because he, or Briggo, haven't raced competitively for years doesn't diminish their knowledge or experience and only a dimwit would suggest otherwise. Kelvin also has his own dyno and has carried out a number of tests to supplement his views.

 

The fact is that the FIM pushed through the new silencers regulations of sound grounds alone and failed to listen to many people, including Dave King, who could have achieved their objective without causing riders the difficulties they are currently encountering.

 

As for rear tyres, speedway is probably unique in that riders have to use the same spec tyre in all conditions, slick or deep, wet or dry. There are solutions to that which would not actually cost riders any more than they are paying now but it is another area where the FIM have a blind spot, although new Track Racing boss Armando Castagna is much more receptive to riders' view than his predecessors.

 

This is another area in which Kelvin has strong views and he maintains that by allowing a different rear tyre, especially in wet conditions when the current one can become like a slick, more meetings might actually go ahead by giving riders more confidence in racing on less than perfect conditions.

 

Talk about trying to slow down speedway bikes has been around since the old king died and isn't the solution to safety concerns. Track preparation, air-fences that do the job they were designed for and admitting that there are alternative silencers that could conceivably reduce the number of accidents are more viable options.

 

 

 

EVEN by your pathetic standards that is a stupid remark. Kelvin has a huge engineering background, not just in speedway, and I would back his knowledge against yours any day of the week.

 

I take it your some sort of pratt them Phil living in the past, a bit like others you mention. You dont know my background and i tell you now, i will go up agaist Tatum anytime, regarding BIKE,CAR,BOAT,PLANE engines or Lifts as i KNOW my stuff.

[The White Knight]

I take it your some sort of pratt them Phil living in the past, a bit like others you mention. You dont know my background and i tell you now, i will go up agaist Tatum anytime, regarding BIKE,CAR,BOAT,PLANE engines or Lifts as i KNOW my stuff.

 

So does Kelvin in my opinion. I don't happen to think that Briggo is ignorant either. In fact I reckon that they are more in 'The Know' than you are.

 

Remember they are BOTH former World Champions in different disciplines.

[PHILIPRISING]

YOU seem to have missed out your World Championship speedway successes. You may well be the world's greatest authority on bikes in general,cars, boats, planes and lifts but I am not sure how that is relevant to the problems undeniably being experienced by many riders these days.

 

Living in the past? The knowledge of Briggs and Tatum regarding how speedway engines react under different circumstances is as relevant now as it has ever been.

 

But if you don't like those two then how about Gollob and Hancock, Hampel and Jonsson? Ask Niels-Kristian Iversen why he came off in Copenhagen when he was racing on his own. What is Simon Stead's view after crashing during practice at King's Lynn?

 

I believe that Chris Louis had a spin recently with a view to doing an exhibition ride but has now declined. BSI and Kelvin talked about him riding a GP track with a camera and mic to provide an insight into what was required at each particular circuit. Both consider the risks associated with the unpredictable and volatile nature of a current speedway bike to be too great.

 

And don't try and tell me that most if not all the top riders don't have a better understanding of why speedway bikes are now generally considered to be tougher to ride. I can knock a golf ball round to a decent standard but wouldn't pretend to have the insight of Justin Rose into what is actually how it should be done.

[Arson fire]

 

 

I take it your some sort of pratt them Phil living in the past, a bit like others you mention. You dont know my background and i tell you now, i will go up agaist Tatum anytime, regarding BIKE,CAR,BOAT,PLANE engines or Lifts as i KNOW my stuff.

that doesn't mean Tatum is talking crap though, his opinion is just different to yours.

[Cockney Rebel]

Why does every post end up in name calling. Just because people have different opinions doesn't make them stupid. Anyway back to the topic, over the years the FIM have proved they haven't got a clue about speedway and don't really understand the uniqueness of it. They bought in these silencers despite a massive protest from the Poles and will continue with them despite complaints from many many riders. They won't listen to anybody else because they are the "Mighty FIM and we do not make mistakes" Why won't they allow any type of silencer as long as it's within the noise levels? Is there someone in the FIM who is a director of the company that makes these? Just asking. Every decision they make makes the sport more expensive or more difficult to run at club level which is where the sport is watched mainly. The "Mighty FIM" decided that the under 21 world champs should go to Argentina despite many of the youngsters not being able to afford it. Thank goodness Castagna stopped that idea. They've decided all tracks should have air fences despite the cost and the facts that many tracks have perfectly good safety fences. Doesn't matter to them if some of the smaller tracks close because they can't afford them. They must be obeyed and will not enter into negotiations or listen to other peoples opinions. If all the ruling organisations stuck together I'm sure some of their sillier ideas would not get off the ground. If any body disagrees with this I will not call you an idiot or a moron because it's just my opinion.

 

an independent ruling body would deal with this sort of matter without links to individual tracks, riders, manufacturers so that sensible decisions are arrived at. Currently the sport is essentially leaderless and makes knee jerk decisions..

The FIM is supposed to be independent body but it's them that made the decision.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Cockney Rebel

[Shale Shaker]

I recently watched the movie documantary "Senna" and after seeing the lamentable actions and attitude of the FIA at the time, there are undeniably similarities with the current actions and attitude of the FIM.

[Vince]

Whatever the problems associated with making bikes quieter the sport needs to find a way to live with it because in the future the noise limit is going to continue to reduce. Complaining about how it ruins things for spectators or how it makes the bikes more expensive or harder to ride is a waste of time. For every Speedway fan and rider there are dozens of people happy to jump on the noise nuisance bandwagon and try and put a stop to anything remotely noisy unless it is their own hobby.

 

Perhaps this would be a good time to introduce a minimum stroke and or flywheel weight. Or the rev limiter, seems to have gone quiet on that one at the moment. Logic says that a longer stroke and lower revs will allow engines to be tuned for torque and make them easier to ride. Would increased piston speeds cause more problems with heat that have been associated with the new silencers? I don't know but it's possible that what is seemingly obvious may not be the answer after all.

[iris123]

The "Mighty FIM" decided that the under 21 world champs should go to Argentina despite many of the youngsters not being able to afford it. Thank goodness Castagna stopped that idea.

 

 

The FIM is supposed to be independent body but it's them that made the decision.

Castagna was the person who had the idea in the first place and made a number of promises that were then "forgotten"........so it was nice of him at least to realise his idea wasn't that good.A bit too tale for the riders last year though.And i wonder if this would have been dropped from the FIM calendar if it wasn't for the tragic death that made it basically impossible to keep.

 

Must be remembered that Italy have stronger ties with Argentina than almost any country in the world,particularly the speedway world .Some on here were applauding Castagnas appointment,but if this is an example of his work then i am not so sure there will be much difference at FIM towers than previously.

Edited July 13, 2013 by iris123

[New Science]

Whatever the problems associated with making bikes quieter the sport needs to find a way to live with it because in the future the noise limit is going to continue to reduce. Complaining about how it ruins things for spectators or how it makes the bikes more expensive or harder to ride is a waste of time. For every Speedway fan and rider there are dozens of people happy to jump on the noise nuisance bandwagon and try and put a stop to anything remotely noisy unless it is their own hobby.

 

Perhaps this would be a good time to introduce a minimum stroke and or flywheel weight. Or the rev limiter, seems to have gone quiet on that one at the moment. Logic says that a longer stroke and lower revs will allow engines to be tuned for torque and make them easier to ride. Would increased piston speeds cause more problems with heat that have been associated with the new silencers? I don't know but it's possible that what is seemingly obvious may not be the answer after all.

Suppose when tracks with lengthy motorsport history like Western Springs are forced to close we just have to say "well thats the way of the world" If it happens there it can happen at any track in the world,what do we do then ?

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Suppose when tracks with lengthy motorsport history like Western Springs are forced to close we just have to say "well thats the way of the world" If it happens there it can happen at any track in the world,what do we do then ?

start world war 3 cause without speedway life would be not be worth living ,lol

[Cockney Rebel]

Castagna was the person who had the idea in the first place and made a number of promises that were then "forgotten"........so it was nice of him at least to realise his idea wasn't that good.A bit too tale for the riders last year though.And i wonder if this would have been dropped from the FIM calendar if it wasn't for the tragic death that made it basically impossible to keep.

 

Must be remembered that Italy have stronger ties with Argentina than almost any country in the world,particularly the speedway world .Some on here were applauding Castagnas appointment,but if this is an example of his work then i am not so sure there will be much difference at FIM towers than previously.

Wasn't aware that it was Castagna's idea to take it there only read that he decided that they wouldn't do it again.

[iris123]

Wasn't aware that it was Castagna's idea to take it there

Obviously not,but it does highlight a subject of safety.It does appear that the FIM who supposedly inspect tracks,turn a blind eye in certain instances(the lesser speedway nations maybe?) whilst rejecting other tracks from the more popular nations.How the track in Argentina got through an FIM inspection god only knows.The same could be said previously for the Belgian track and Wiener Neustadt in Austria was also a known dodgy track with large stones in the shale that could cause injuries.On the one hand i can understand the FIM wanting to help the sport get stronger on the peripheries,but safety there must be of the same standard as elsewhere.Castagna seems to be following the same path as previous incumbants with his Argentina episode

[The White Knight]

Obviously not,but it does highlight a subject of safety.It does appear that the FIM who supposedly inspect tracks,turn a blind eye in certain instances(the lesser speedway nations maybe?) whilst rejecting other tracks from the more popular nations.How the track in Argentina got through an FIM inspection god only knows.The same could be said previously for the Belgian track and Wiener Neustadt in Austria was also a known dodgy track with large stones in the shale that could cause injuries.On the one hand i can understand the FIM wanting to help the sport get stronger on the peripheries,but safety there must be of the same standard as elsewhere.Castagna seems to be following the same path as previous incumbants with his Argentina episode

 

Perhaps a Meeting between the Falkland Island 'Islanders' and the Argentine 'Ass****s' would help. :shock:

[The Know]

YOU seem to have missed out your World Championship speedway successes. You may well be the world's greatest authority on bikes in general,cars, boats, planes and lifts but I am not sure how that is relevant to the problems undeniably being experienced by many riders these days.

 

Living in the past? The knowledge of Briggs and Tatum regarding how speedway engines react under different circumstances is as relevant now as it has ever been.

 

But if you don't like those two then how about Gollob and Hancock, Hampel and Jonsson? Ask Niels-Kristian Iversen why he came off in Copenhagen when he was racing on his own. What is Simon Stead's view after crashing during practice at King's Lynn?

 

I believe that Chris Louis had a spin recently with a view to doing an exhibition ride but has now declined. BSI and Kelvin talked about him riding a GP track with a camera and mic to provide an insight into what was required at each particular circuit. Both consider the risks associated with the unpredictable and volatile nature of a current speedway bike to be too great.

 

And don't try and tell me that most if not all the top riders don't have a better understanding of why speedway bikes are now generally considered to be tougher to ride. I can knock a golf ball round to a decent standard but wouldn't pretend to have the insight of Justin Rose into what is actually how it should be done.

 

Hi Phil, i have not said these riders dont know what there on about, only commented on tatum and briggs. Yes the bikes may be harder to ride but its not all down to the silencer. How about, the riders wanting more power all the time, short stroke high revs. Its supply and demand. Poor track preperation and very low quailty material. Very poor tyre to use. All these and more effect how the bike rides and as i said the riders want quicker bikes which are harder to ride.There are many way to try and help the problem like,good programable ignition systems, better engine design. The green want quiet so loud exhausts wont return.

 

Has anyone looked at injuries since say 2000. Is there more riders being hurt ? May pay to look at this and see if there is an increase across the board in the last 10 years ?

 

On a side note, who knows at the age of 17 if i had chosen a differant path i may of been a world champion contender, as i was offered a works ride by cagiva. I have also riden a speedway bike when we hired newport a few years back,yep i was crap and indeed went over the bars, but with maybe a few million laps might of got half decent lol.So yes i understand they are not easy to ride at all without these recent problems.

Edited July 15, 2013 by The Know