Grand Central Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Got to love it. It wasn't unfair back in the good old days was it, when the weaker team won due to tactical rules... The weaker team didn't. This was a two-legged home and away fixture. Belle Vue used tac subs in the first leg as well. If you're going to pick fault. Be accurate. . Edited July 8, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I will pick faults and I will be accurate. The old tac sub system was THE MOST UNFAIR system the sport has ever had. To attempt to use it as an example of how the sport was 'great' and is now marred by the current Tac system is hypocritical and ignorant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Worth remembering that both the Polish and Swedish leagues gave the double-point / joker / tactical ride a try and kicked it out after a season or two. Maybe we should use the Polish rule that they use today...when 6 points behind,any rider can be brought in as a tactical substitute...oh wait a minute...haven't we seen that before somewhere? Anyway...ANOTHER proposal IF SkySports coverage is to end, then how about getting rid of that stupid rule that says that team race suits have to be black below the waistline? The EL, to satisfy Sky, are the only league anywhere to adopt this rule, and even the race suit designers are trying to get away from it with clever coloured embellishments. Scrap the rule entirely I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Worth remembering that both the Polish and Swedish leagues gave the double-point / joker / tactical ride a try and kicked it out after a season or two. Only used now in some MINOR leagues - Germany, Czech Republic, Denmark, U.K ... And worth remembering that Polish speedway is going down the pan faster than speedway over here. The crowds are falling and it is now much more expensive to watch than speedway over here. I hardly think we should be looking at the Polish model as to how to run a sport, they are merely recreating all the faults British Speedway has made over the last 30 years/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 For every team with 7 heatleaders, there must have been two teams with 1. I bet them match ups were great! No all teams had 7 heat leaders, all with averages above 6. Makes you wonder how it was done with only 6 points available every race but there you go. And a proper world championship with star studded fields every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) No all teams had 7 heat leaders, all with averages above 6. Makes you wonder how it was done with only 6 points available every race but there you go. And a proper world championship with star studded fields every year. And all races had 4 riders of equal standing in, the racing was never spread out.. Edited July 8, 2013 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonbee48 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 And worth remembering that Polish speedway is going down the pan faster than speedway over here. The crowds are falling and it is now much more expensive to watch than speedway over here. I hardly think we should be looking at the Polish model as to how to run a sport, they are merely recreating all the faults British Speedway has made over the last 30 years/ Have to pull you up on a factual basis here. Watching the two Polish League matches yesterday, in front of packed crowds both, i asked our Polish colleague what was the admission charge. Two sources replied that it was 8 pounds.The two crowds yesterday would exceed total Elite League attendances for a week or two i guarantee, so the Poles must be doing something right. People can reply about average wages in Poland, but you state explicetly that "it is mre expensive" and, sorry, it isn't so. Regards. Alan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Have to pull you up on a factual basis here. Watching the two Polish League matches yesterday, in front of packed crowds both, i asked our Polish colleague what was the admission charge. Two sources replied that it was 8 pounds.The two crowds yesterday would exceed total Elite League attendances for a week or two i guarantee, so the Poles must be doing something right. People can reply about average wages in Poland, but you state explicetly that "it is mre expensive" and, sorry, it isn't so. Regards. Alan. Well that proves my point then, it is far higher than here in real terms I didn't realise it was quite so high though, what would that equate to here £25.00 maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Have to agree with Alan and also point out that both TV matches had a great atmosphere with both sets of supporters making themselves heard throughout the match. Here on UK TV meetings the few fans there hardly ever make any noise worth the meaning of the word so anyone watching would not feel any great urge to go along and join in with their local supporters. Polish fans are enthusiastic about the sport. Our lot mostly look bored. The Polish and Swedish matches on TV promote the sport. Here they probably put people off. I can remember seeing such enthusiastic crowds but then I am an old man and the sport needs young people. Standing in a decrepit stadium waiting endlessly for riders to get themselves out and take part in a heat with equally endless dealays and poor to non existent presentation and zero entertainment during the breaks is hardly going to interest that many people. The Russian Togliatti model is one to learn from. They entertain the crowd during the breaks with all manner of insane and inventive ideas from blokes bending steel bars with their heads to sexy women dressed as toy soldiers to ninja free for alls on the centre green. Cheap cheerful and hugely entertaining. Where our speedway is two hours of drudgery interspersed with maybe the odd couple of actual speedway races 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Kind of got me thinking, and gave me an excuse to air one of my thoughts... NO FACILITIES for teams where a rider is absent, due to justifiably withholding their services. So what does that mean? Well, imagine a club not paying a rider, and that rider not riding for that team again until his debts are paid. Why should a club get to benefit from a guest or rider replacement for running up bad debts? Why shouldn't a rider be able to say, without getting suspended for it, "if you're not paying me, I'm not travelling across Europe to attend your meeting at my own cost"? That's just one example of where a rider has a justifiable reason. There may be others too. Seems that the teams are in a no-lose situation and can treat their riders the way no other employers can treat their staff in any other line of business. How to administer this rule will need to be thought out, as relying on the mutual back-scratching society isn't the answer. Perhaps some kind of notice with supporting evidence lodged with the FIM or parent governing body? Or something...??? I do agree with you, that clubs that don't play by the rules should not be given 'options' like r/r/guest, but then the problem is the fans suffer, so it's bit of a lose/lose. I will pick faults and I will be accurate. The old tac sub system was THE MOST UNFAIR system the sport has ever had. What, a tac sub for being 6 points behind was unfair? Do you mind if I ask why? or do you mean the previous double points unfair tac sub ride... which I would fully agree with you, unfair and stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinuteWarning Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 And worth remembering that Polish speedway is going down the pan faster than speedway over here. The crowds are falling and it is now much more expensive to watch than speedway over here. I hardly think we should be looking at the Polish model as to how to run a sport, they are merely recreating all the faults British Speedway has made over the last 30 years/ Speedway is more expensive to watch in Poland than in the UK???????? Completely untrue. Price to watch Polish Extraleague matches is either 25 or 30 zlotys, £5 or £6 UK. PLEASE tell me which British EL track charges less than that? Crowds are down in Poland? Yes, they have had a recession too. Crowds down for Extraleague regular season matches from an average of 9,303 in 2008 to 7,442 in 2012. Still way ahead of other leagues for which figures are available. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Speedway is more expensive to watch in Poland than in the UK???????? Completely untrue. Price to watch Polish Extraleague matches is either 25 or 30 zlotys, £5 or £6 UK. PLEASE tell me which British EL track charges less than that? Crowds are down in Poland? Yes, they have had a recession too. Crowds down for Extraleague regular season matches from an average of 9,303 in 2008 to 7,442 in 2012. Still way ahead of other leagues for which figures are available. But speedway in Poland is watched by Poles living in Poland, working in Poland, earning a Polish type salary. Like I said speedway in Poland is now far more expensive than here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sancho Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Isn't Polish speedway also sponsored by a state owned company (ENEA) Imagine that over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 What, a tac sub for being 6 points behind was unfair? Do you mind if I ask why? or do you mean the previous double points unfair tac sub ride... which I would fully agree with you, unfair and stupid. I do hope you are joking here.. Are you suggesting that double pts tac rides are 'unfair' but the old tac sub for being 6 points behind was not? The old system was the most unfair of all, by quite some way. Not that I am against it, or indeed particularly against the current rule. Neither of them are the reasons for the sports problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 What, a tac sub for being 6 points behind was unfair? Do you mind if I ask why? I would certainly say the old tac sub (anybody in when 6 points down) was unfair. I remember being at Brandon one day watching Panthers pulling away from the home side when up came heat 8. Bees made a double tac sub bringing in Hancock and Hamilll for their #2 and #7 against a visiting reserve and second string. Result, an easy 5 - 1 from which Coventry never looked back. Why were they allowed to do it, oh yes, they'd fallen 7 or 8 points behind, at home, in the first 7 heats! No way could that be described as fair. I'm sure most of us following the sport back then could come up with a similar legitimate injustice but, for me, that was the occasion that showed just how unfair that rule was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinuteWarning Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 But speedway in Poland is watched by Poles living in Poland, working in Poland, earning a Polish type salary. Like I said speedway in Poland is now far more expensive than here. Average earnings of £2,000 a month in the UK dwarfs the typical wage of £635 in Poland. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209255/Polish-migrants-return-Britain-search-work-despite-UKs-struggling-economy.html#ixzz2YSvnhzl5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Average earnings of £2,000 a month in the UK dwarfs the typical wage of £635 in Poland. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209255/Polish-migrants-return-Britain-search-work-despite-UKs-struggling-economy.html#ixzz2YSvnhzl5 That's what Oldace is saying??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I do hope you are joking here.. Are you suggesting that double pts tac rides are 'unfair' but the old tac sub for being 6 points behind was not? The old system was the most unfair of all, by quite some way. Not that I am against it, or indeed particularly against the current rule. Neither of them are the reasons for the sports problems. THAT is an opinion - NOT a provable fact BW. My opinion differs from yours. Whilst not being totally responsible for Speedway's downfall in popularity - there is NO WAY that you can argue that this Double Points rubbish has helped the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Average earnings of £2,000 a month in the UK dwarfs the typical wage of £635 in Poland. Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2YSvnhzl5 Have you been on the sherry this afternoon!!!!! Thats the point I was making and you were arguing with me a while back, now you are posting links to back up my point THAT is an opinion - NOT a provable fact BW. My opinion differs from yours. Whilst not being totally responsible for Speedway's downfall in popularity - there is NO WAY that you can argue that this Double Points rubbish has helped the situation. It has neither helped, nor hindered. It is totally insignificant in speedways slow demise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoMinuteWarning Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 That's what Oldace is saying??? No, that's what the Daily Mail is saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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