£10 Sport?

[uk_martin]

Didn't I read somewhere that Belle Vue tried Speedway for a tenner a couple of seasons ago? The result was an initial improvement on the crowd levels which lasted for one or two meetings and then the crowd levels slowly sank down to the old levels resulting in the same numbers turning up as before, and the promoters getting £5-£6 per person less at the turnstiles?

 

Maybe a Belle Vue fan would care to elaborate/correct me on this matter?

[Irk Deflector]

Merge the EL and PL then charge £12 including 8 page race card/mini program on cheap paper.

 

Need to give the promoters a chance of making some money! Track rental, medical cover, stewards take up a huge chunk of the admission money, will need to get rid of over paid Heat Leaders (perhaps a wage cap or income/wages cap could work) and reduce/stop flight re-imbursement. Do nothing and the sport bleeds to death!

Edited June 18, 2013 by Irk Deflector

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

speedway needs to get the feel good factor back , the feeling it had way back when ,it needs people talking about it ,it needs the teraces full but your not going to get that by charging £16+ to watch a league meeting .if you listen to terry russell all is well and you can charge that and people will pay but in the real world where you and i live its just too expensive but also it needs a damm good shake up from the top to the bottom because its bordering on taking the p**s at the moment ,i love world speedway but british speedway is suffering and its time to change .when a rider gets his british licence he has to tick a box to say that if called he will ride in the british final etc , there should be another box saying apart from world championship events they have to put british speedway first and not miss a match for another country ,if they dont tick the box they dont ride here simple , it may sound harsh but without the paying public there is no speedway and it the paying public which really matter and they are being short changed,they are the be all and end all .over the years the scb/bspa/fim have introduced some stupid expensive ideas which have done nothing for the sport but have cost riders more money .ie enviro mats £50 per bike ,stupid idea ,speedway bikes drop very little oil anyway and if they did where the hell does oil come from anyway ? and we dont want to drop a bit of oil where the day before a stock car has dropped the contents of it sump , dirt deflectors £200 per bike ,still the biggest rip off in speedway ever , do nothing to stop flying shale ( phillip rising can suck up to his buddy barry all he likes but they dont work and given the choice they would be gone forever ), silencers £200 per bike ,a joke + a heat shield £80 to stop riders getting burnt by the previous mistake , you couldnt make it up could you , just a couple of needless things and ive saved a rider over £500 per bike , , licences over £70 for a british licence (where does the money go )? on top of £30 for an ACU one ,im sure they dont need to be that expensive ,all these things should be disscussed every year in meetings between riders and bspa to find ways forward without putting up expenses all the time , some of the mechanics are on really good money ,they do work hard but they are being paid what speedway cant afford to pay , vans ,living expenses, maybe its time to end the proffessional rider ,there are a couple in the national league for god sake , there are savings to be made on all sides ,its going to be bloody painfull in the short term but surely worth it in the long term ,surely it would be easier to attract new fans to a cheaper simpler sport that a expensive badly run one and thats where we are today . and then you get nights like somerset tonight just to drive the points home

Edited June 18, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[pawel115]

Speedway in UK is pretty cheap compared to Poland ,for example in Rzeszow ticket for adult for league match is 30zl unless you want the new grandstand then its 50zl in that region most common salary take home pay is in 1200-1700zl range( 240 Pounds-340 Pounds ) divide that by about 5 to get Pounds, when I was living in Poland it use to be cheaper plus the unemployment rate was way lower then, the whole south east of Poland (speedway cities Rzeszow,Tarnow,Krosno) has one of the highest unemployment rates in Poland,lot of folks take their kids to matches then you buy food etc and the cost goes up ,most of my friends who live abroad(UK,France,Germany) would come back to Poland tomorrow for 800 Pounds a month salary.

[Grand Central]

Speedway in UK is pretty cheap compared to Poland ,for example in Rzeszow ticket for adult for league match is 30zl unless you want the new grandstand then its 50zl in that region most common salary take home pay is in 1200-1700zl range( 240 Pounds-340 Pounds ) divide that by about 5 to get Pounds, when I was living in Poland it use to be cheaper plus the unemployment rate was way lower then, the whole south east of Poland (speedway cities Rzeszow,Tarnow,Krosno) has one of the highest unemployment rates in Poland,lot of folks take their kids to matches then you buy food etc and the cost goes up ,most of my friends who live abroad(UK,France,Germany) would come back to Poland tomorrow for 800 Pounds a month salary.

 

My 'take' on this sort of valuable information is

 

Polish Speedway is doing something sufficiently 'right' that not very well paid people are prepared to pay a reasonably high proportion of their take home pay to go and watch regularly and still in quite high numbers.

Whereas British Speedway does not seem to be achieving this.

 

I presume, from what you say, Pawel, Speedway in Rzeszow 'feels' like a 30zl Sport.

 

I just maintain that, to me, a Speedway watcher of 40 years plus, British Speedway 'feels' like it is worth £10. Right now.

But we are paying up to £17.

Just in dwindling numbers.

 

Whether the costs can ever be reduced to anything like the £10 price point I really do not know.

I suspect that none will actually try and we will have to continue to considerably pay more than £10 but still get just £10 of product.

And numbers will dwindle further..

[ch958]

Dean Machine i salute you - your post is right on the money and you know what you're talking about.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Dean Machine i salute you - your post is right on the money and you know what you're talking about.

lol .i wouldnt go that far

[rhidassa]

Dropping the admission to £10 will certainly increase the crowds but, without the associated drop in costs, it'd be financial suicide.

 

Out of interest, when promotions have been run by clubs reducing meetings to £10 or the like, what has been the effect on crowds? Was it a sufficient increase in numbers to cover the lost revenue from the price reduction?

 

I actually think the problem is attracting new supporters whatever the price, ten pound is about right though.All this stems from promoters over the years taking the diehards supporters for granted.

 

Yup, marketing. You can reduce the price of the product, but if you don't target the likely market, it won't help over much.. Particularly with the amount of competition in the leisure industry in light of the recession (and so on, so forth). As to what the current level of marketing is both overall and club specific, I guess that varies. But then that IS another cost...

 

its easy to pick holes in my analogy but 90 percent of the posters think the same as me. If you disagree - fine - but what do you think should be done?

 

I didn't see a poll for if people agree or not to get that statistic

Without wanting to dishearten anyone, we can agree, disagree and discuss all we want about it... but are any of in a position to actually change anything?

 

And that may be is the real problem, no good sticking your head in the sand, if the market will only pay / support £10 then the cost of the product needs to be trimmed, that is basic business logic! If speedway wants to survive, it has to cut costs as there isn't the appetite to pay for it at current prices.

 

If the cost of the product can be trimmed. Unless there is something agreed prior to season, there isn't over much that can be trimmed I wouldn't have thought (looking from outside) - one team could sign cheaper riders and not go for the expensive ones and have to deal with flights etc, for example. But if every other team decides to spend more and this leads to that team being uncompetitive... well, catch 22 situation. It's very easy to say costs need to be cut. In reality for any business, it's not always so easy. And without seeing exact figures.... and knowing what goes where, it's even more difficult to judge!

 

Away support increases the atmosphere at tracks, so slash away support admission, which would help potential travellers with fuel costs etc

 

 

Just on this idea - would you, as a home fan, be happy for away fans to get in cheaper? That could result in a loss of loyal home fans..

 

i dont "reckon" it could be run on £8 I'm just saying the market says its only worth a tenner

 

and so do some of the thousands who have abandoned the sport - obviously there are other factors

 

as usual people criticise but dont offer an answer or an idea - what would you do??

 

Perhaps this is because there is no simple solution, and the majority of people reading this will not have access to the type of financial data to be able to suggest a solution. You can't suggest how a business cuts costs / becomes more viable without seeing what is spent on what area's etc - put simply, we don't know what costs what and how the books stand, so we can't try to improve them.

 

Speedway is now very expensive in Poland, this is reflected in the falling attendances.

 

Why the big issue over these so called overheads.

 

A speedway bike is the simplest form of motorbike around and yet tuners charge a fortune, why?. Quite simply because they know the worth of a few extra points to a top rider. It is the high wages that have driven the high costs in the first instance.

 

Overheads are an issue. How do you reduce them?

 

If an increase in wages led to an increase in costs (which doesn't consider many other factors including price rises probably across the board affecting parts etc), then a new market equilibrium was reached. How do you propose a lower market equilibrium is reached? Demand isn't likely to change... and as many riders prefer established engine tuners, neither is supply...

 

If EL promoters receive £100k sky money which seems to be the general consensus on here, then running 14 meetings a year would cost in the region of £36,400 per season in rent and first aid leaving £63,600 for other expenses. Those expenses would'nt get anywhere near this sum so a fair amount of £63k would be left for riders expenses, add to this entrance money, programmes and sponsorship.

We need to employ riders that are committed to the EL and living in this country ( I think a lot of riders live in this country anyway during the season ) thus cutting out expensive flights, if they want to ride in Poland/Sweden then let them pay for flights both ways or the riders to contribute towards them

Why don't clubs employ a mechanic or two to look after all there riders bikes, they could even clean them after the meeting because the riders would only need them in this country ( obviously a different system would have to be put into place for doubling up riders ) the club could then buy there own van to transport them and the riders could use there own cars as 99% of the working populace have to. This would'nt cost any more than now as clubs are already paying out for mechanics and vans for some riders.

 

This would depend on what deals riders get. Do they pay for their own mechanics including the cleaning and transportation of their own bikes anyway? All varies on the deal and the club I'd suspect... Again, without knowing exactly how things are done, it's hard to plan how things can be improved.

 

There are so many possible angles.... and we're working on so little information!

[Fromafar]

Have to agree regarding lack of information,the Promoters don't have to answer to fans how they run and finance their club for obvious reason deals with riders and Sponsers should remain confidential ,but when Clubs like Edinburgh(sorry to keep using them as an example but they did publish that they lost approx £30,000last season)and others report losing money and the average fan can see that their Team is just as expensive on paper as last years you wonder what is actually going on. I for one don't believe that the Riders are taking to drop in wages and riding to a wage code (but I may be wrong).the supporters bailed out Monarchs last year which is commendable , will they have to do it again this closed season with the price of a new Air Fence thrown in.We shall see.

[uk_martin]

My 'take' on this sort of valuable information is

 

Polish Speedway is doing something sufficiently 'right' that not very well paid people are prepared to pay a reasonably high proportion of their take home pay to go and watch regularly and still in quite high numbers.

 

Polish speedway is "cool" in that country. Simple really isn't it?

 

All the "National" companies sponsor the sport. Compare that to the dustbin collectors, scrap metal merchants and Arthur Daley's Used Car Dealers that we have in the UK. That quality of sponsor in Poland gives the sport added credability whereas in GB we are grateful to scrape the bottom of the barrel, as long as some £££ come from it.

 

Where else would away fans charter airliners to take them to their away tracks? (Falubaz fans travelling to Rzeszow) and where else do you find more home fans from out of town than local residents? I was at Zielona Gora trying to find a fan where I could find a pub that was showing speedway last Sunday evening, and every Falubaz fan I spoke to was from 50+km out of town. It was the speedway equivalent of a Man United home match.

 

Poles are patriotic and at an international level, they have riders who they can hang their hats on. That good feeling about the riders and the sport then carries over to the domestic level.

 

Polish stadiums are fantastic places to be. Great viewing, seats if you want to sit, terraces if you want to stand.

 

The Poles have a fan base that is also 30-years per person on average, younger than British fans. That youthfulness comes across in the enthusiasm with which the sport is supported. It makes for a far better atmosphere than what we have in Britain. People of that age congregate where others of that age do too, so adding to the "cool factor", making the support base resiliant. Despite the increased cost of admission since last year, he lowest attendance at Stal Gorzow this season has been 9,400ish - 3 or 4 times, I would guess, what the highest attendance in a GB league meeting has been this year.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

although there are some variants in the way they are paid(some full time ,some paid per match) the wage bill for mechanics in the elite league is around £19000 a week and a lot are paid by the club. can speedway afford that? i know mechanics deserve that money they work damm hard, i know cause i currently one but the fact is speedway cant afford it

Edited June 19, 2013 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[The White Knight]

although there are some variants in the way they are paid(some full time ,some paid per match) the wage bill for mechanics in the elite league is around £19000 a week and a lot are paid by the club. can speedway afford that? i know mechanics deserve that money they work damm hard, i know cause i currently one but the fact is speedway cant afford it

 

Gizza Job Dean. :rofl:

[mikebv]

just got a copy of 'speedway now' july 1991 from a car boot sale..

 

there is an advert in it for a tri nation test match at poole, - england, aussie and sweden..

 

admission 4.50...

 

what would it be today to watch a test match? based on the 16.50 I pay to watch the EL about 20 quid??

 

if so that would be an increase of just under 350 percent in a little over 20 years...

 

if the admission had matched the inflation rate since 1991 then todays admission should be 8.60*!!

 

wonder if that effects attendance figures?

 

(* figs from the Historical UK Inflation and price conversion website)..

Edited June 19, 2013 by mikebv

[Mike.Butler]

geronimo..i think we've got to the main root cause..

[mikebv]

although there are some variants in the way they are paid(some full time ,some paid per match) the wage bill for mechanics in the elite league is around £19000 a week and a lot are paid by the club. can speedway afford that? i know mechanics deserve that money they work damm hard, i know cause i currently one but the fact is speedway cant afford it

 

often wondered why the EL promoters dont just make the league a 'one make league' and buy all bikes themselves then employ one mechanic per team to look after all of them...

 

you could then pay a rider a lower points money as they wouldnt have any costs themselves other than their safety kit, they simply turn up and ride..

 

go down to six man teams to save a wage, buy the bikes as a 'job lot' to get best prices and then sell them off each year to PL/NL/newbie riders to recoup a fair proportion of your initial outlay to re invest on the next years purchases...

 

make plenty of rules around what can and cannot be done to the machinery (they are good at making rules), get rid of dirt deflectors and other 'non essentials', ensure proper policing and I am sure watching riders performing on bog standard kit would mean closer racing, with talent winning over those who currently have more machinery investment?

 

many motorsports now run 'one make' championships with clear rules around what can be done to improve performance (even F1 has rules around what can be modified to reduce costs) therefore surely in EL speedway it is worth a go?..

 

if as you show deano, the costs have gone out of control then something has to be done and that something needs to be radical, not another 'variation on a theme' that promoters seem to just come up with..

Edited June 19, 2013 by mikebv

[ch958]

brilliant mikebv

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Polish speedway is "cool" in that country. Simple really isn't it?

 

All the "National" companies sponsor the sport. Compare that to the dustbin collectors, scrap metal merchants and Arthur Daley's Used Car Dealers that we have in the UK. That quality of sponsor in Poland gives the sport added credability whereas in GB we are grateful to scrape the bottom of the barrel, as long as some £££ come from it.

 

Where else would away fans charter airliners to take them to their away tracks? (Falubaz fans travelling to Rzeszow) and where else do you find more home fans from out of town than local residents? I was at Zielona Gora trying to find a fan where I could find a pub that was showing speedway last Sunday evening, and every Falubaz fan I spoke to was from 50+km out of town. It was the speedway equivalent of a Man United home match.

 

Poles are patriotic and at an international level, they have riders who they can hang their hats on. That good feeling about the riders and the sport then carries over to the domestic level.

 

Polish stadiums are fantastic places to be. Great viewing, seats if you want to sit, terraces if you want to stand.

 

The Poles have a fan base that is also 30-years per person on average, younger than British fans. That youthfulness comes across in the enthusiasm with which the sport is supported. It makes for a far better atmosphere than what we have in Britain. People of that age congregate where others of that age do too, so adding to the "cool factor", making the support base resiliant. Despite the increased cost of admission since last year, he lowest attendance at Stal Gorzow this season has been 9,400ish - 3 or 4 times, I would guess, what the highest attendance in a GB league meeting has been this year.

 

Polish speedway is "cool" in that country. Simple really isn't it?

 

All the "National" companies sponsor the sport. Compare that to the dustbin collectors, scrap metal merchants and Arthur Daley's Used Car Dealers that we have in the UK. That quality of sponsor in Poland gives the sport added credability whereas in GB we are grateful to scrape the bottom of the barrel, as long as some £££ come from it.

 

Where else would away fans charter airliners to take them to their away tracks? (Falubaz fans travelling to Rzeszow) and where else do you find more home fans from out of town than local residents? I was at Zielona Gora trying to find a fan where I could find a pub that was showing speedway last Sunday evening, and every Falubaz fan I spoke to was from 50+km out of town. It was the speedway equivalent of a Man United home match.

 

Poles are patriotic and at an international level, they have riders who they can hang their hats on. That good feeling about the riders and the sport then carries over to the domestic level.

 

Polish stadiums are fantastic places to be. Great viewing, seats if you want to sit, terraces if you want to stand.

 

The Poles have a fan base that is also 30-years per person on average, younger than British fans. That youthfulness comes across in the enthusiasm with which the sport is supported. It makes for a far better atmosphere than what we have in Britain. People of that age congregate where others of that age do too, so adding to the "cool factor", making the support base resiliant. Despite the increased cost of admission since last year, he lowest attendance at Stal Gorzow this season has been 9,400ish - 3 or 4 times, I would guess, what the highest attendance in a GB league meeting has been this year.

The post about Speedway in Poland being 'cool' I would think is spot on. I'm not sure if the racing is any better or worse than the Uk but the sport has a high regard & is respected. That Is the main problem we have in this country the sport is not respected by those outside the sport & it would appear by some of those who run it. Change is needed.

[SCB]

The post about Speedway in Poland being 'cool' I would think is spot on. I'm not sure if the racing is any better or worse than the Uk but the sport has a high regard & is respected. That Is the main problem we have in this country the sport is not respected by those outside the sport & it would appear by some of those who run it. Change is needed.

And how do you make it cool? Stop letting OAPs in for a concessionary rate and cluttering up the place and offer that rate to 15-25 years olds (the "cool" people), get rid of the presenters in their 60s and bring in more younger cooler people. Realise that hits of the 90s is not modernising speedway, it's still 20 years out of date. THEN and only then you mght start attracting a younger crowd but while you've still got 60 year old presenters playing musics from the 60s and 70s you're only going to attract people in their 50s and 60s.

[oldace]

just got a copy of 'speedway now' july 1991 from a car boot sale..

 

there is an advert in it for a tri nation test match at poole, - england, aussie and sweden..

 

admission 4.50...

 

what would it be today to watch a test match? based on the 16.50 I pay to watch the EL about 20 quid??

 

if so that would be an increase of just under 350 percent in a little over 20 years...

 

if the admission had matched the inflation rate since 1991 then todays admission should be 8.60*!!

 

wonder if that effects attendance figures?

 

(* figs from the Historical UK Inflation and price conversion website)..

 

When we left Hyde Road in 1987 admission was £3.10 inc programme. That has increased by 500% to today. In perspective for every £100 you earned back then you would now need £600.00.

[rob tatum]

How to attract kids ? EASY. No charge for under 18 s. Give them something to fill out a free scoresheet. Make the riders and pit areas more accesible to kids. Why don't kids go because I can't afford to take them that's why.

 

First ever speedway meeting I ever went to at eastville as a 14 year old I had a free programme and met Phil(god)crump. I never looked back it was magic. Can't remember how much it was to get in then but It can't of been that much as my pocket money paid for entry and a programme.