£10 Sport?

[ch958]

Is that what I suggested? No - just the typical bleating bobble hat wearing response to anyone who doesn't agree with with the "crap but cheap" brigade.

 

For years GB has been a PL country. So run a PL standard league. If it means a few "names" aren't riding here, fine - they don't particularly want to anyway. That why the Elite League has disappeared up its own backside by cancelling the KO Cup and half the B fixtures.

 

I wouldn't advocate 25 instead of 14 but what the Hell is with14 fixtures spread over 6 months or more?

 

If it means 1 or 2 Brits are squeezed out, so be it.

 

Then, instead of Golden Wedding Record Requests (dear God), put on a proper bloody show instead of the disheveled farce that goes on at the vast majority of tracks.

 

If riders can be served up to answer inane questions from the bint on Sky, they can do the same at every match - but not being interviewed by geriatrics who remember Johnnie Hoskins in his prime.

 

It's about a SHOW not background music, it's about making an effort.

 

 

still no ideas then???? plenty smart mouth comments but no ideas

 

Any room for the Elite league boys (Harris,Nicholls,King,Bridger,Mear)who have served British speedway well or will they be surplus in the new £10 model ?

 

if they'll ride for the money on offer - they're performing in front of 5 - 800 people for gods sake

Edited June 27, 2013 by ch958

[MattK]

 

if they'll ride for the money on offer - they're performing in front of 5 - 800 people for gods sake

 

It's not jsut money, but ability as well. Nicholls, Woffinden and Harris would be head and shoulders above every other rider and it would make the clubs who sided them too strong.

 

It is harsh, but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere.

[Backless]

 

 

 

still no ideas then???? plenty smart mouth comments but no ideas

 

 

I'm sorry, I had no idea you were seemingly bereft of the ability to read.

[ch958]

I'm sorry, I had no idea you were seemingly bereft of the ability to read.

 

"For years GB has been a PL country. So run a PL standard league. If it means a few "names" aren't riding here, fine - they don't particularly want to anyway. That why the Elite League has disappeared up its own backside by cancelling the KO Cup and half the B fixtures."

 

i can read that - it seems quite sensible

except half the pl clubs can't make ends meet either

so it needs ideas to lessen costs to achieve a reasonable entrance fee commensurate with a sport that attracts the number of people it currently does

THEN try and build things up from there

[Shale Shaker]

"For years GB has been a PL country. So run a PL standard league. If it means a few "names" aren't riding here, fine - they don't particularly want to anyway. That why the Elite League has disappeared up its own backside by cancelling the KO Cup and half the B fixtures."

 

i can read that - it seems quite sensible

except half the pl clubs can't make ends meet either

so it needs ideas to lessen costs to achieve a reasonable entrance fee commensurate with a sport that attracts the number of people it currently does

THEN try and build things up from there

 

Hang on a minute. You are advocating a £10 admission fee to only maintain the current fanbase. Surely if the turnover is lowered, then more fans need to be attracted to balance the books.

 

Why knock things even further down if your plan is to build up?

 

Why not invest in the sport and improve the product so that it's worthy of a £17 or even £20 entrance fee.

 

People will not turn out to watch a shoddy product, no matter how it's priced. Will your £10 product subsequently only be worth £5 or £6?

[ch958]

Hang on a minute. You are advocating a £10 admission fee to only maintain the current fanbase. Surely if the turnover is lowered, then more fans need to be attracted to balance the books.

 

Why knock things even further down if your plan is to build up?

 

Why not invest in the sport and improve the product so that it's worthy of a £17 or even £20 entrance fee.

 

People will not turn out to watch a shoddy product, no matter how it's priced. Will your £10 product subsequently only be worth £5 or £6?

 

i'm getting bored with folks who havent read earlier posts

sorry i've made my points i cant go over it again and again

costs would need to be lowered obviously

 

investment? are you having a laugh? clubs are threatening to go bust for supplying an air fence

Edited June 27, 2013 by ch958

[Shale Shaker]

investment? are you having a laugh? clubs are threatening to go bust for supplying an air fence

 

So how is a £10 entrance fee going to help them?

 

Sorry if you're getting bored O saviour of British Speedway

[ch958]

So how is a £10 entrance fee going to help them?

 

Sorry if you're getting bored O saviour of British Speedway

 

 

you got any ideas then or just another smart mouth?

sorry but you're making points that were made and dealt with ages ago on this post

[Shale Shaker]

you got any ideas then or just another smart mouth?

sorry but you're making points that were made and dealt with ages ago on this post

 

Maybe it's you who ought to re-read the thread.

 

I can't see any of your "ideas", or any real reasoned debate.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

It would be interesting to hear Mr Rising from the speedway star thinks about all this & if he thinks the sport will sort its self out in this country.

[The White Knight]

Well having read a number of ageist Posts on here - I reckon that I should pack up my blanket, folding chair, sandwich box and flask - stop going to Speedway and get myself in to an Old Peoples Home where I can play or watch tiddleywinks in nice plush surroundings whilst listening to Vera Lynn on the wireless. :sad:

 

I'm 68 years of age - obviously FAR too old to attend Speedway at Concession Rate. I should probably leave the Sport for the youngsters - er?? Where are they?

[PHILIPRISING]

It would be interesting to hear Mr Rising from the speedway star thinks about all this & if he thinks the sport will sort its self out in this country.

 

HAVE written a piece for speedwayXtra this week (which will also go in Speedway Star next week) ... have never been as concerned about the future of British speedway as I am right now. Lack of real leadership at times of crisis is a major worry as is the fact that league speedway in the UK is becoming or is already an anachronism.

 

Even those of us who love the sport must surely admit that in its current form (league matches between unbalanced teams, no continuity of race-nights and team members, continual bending of rules, of which there are far too many that are destructive rather than constructive, no independent ruling panel, no real value for money week in, week out, no real effort to attract youngsters either to ride or watch and too many promoters who seem to think it will all turn out right in the end) it can and will survive.

 

HAVE written a piece for speedwayXtra this week (which will also go in Speedway Star next week) ... have never been as concerned about the future of British speedway as I am right now. Lack of real leadership at times of crisis is a major worry as is the fact that league speedway in the UK is becoming or is already an anachronism.

 

Even those of us who love the sport must surely admit that in its current form (league matches between unbalanced teams, no continuity of race-nights and team members, continual bending of rules, of which there are far too many that are destructive rather than constructive, no independent ruling panel, no real value for money week in, week out, no real effort to attract youngsters either to ride or watch and too many promoters who seem to think it will all turn out right in the end) it can and will survive.

 

That should read doubt it can survive...

[oldace]

Well having read a number of ageist Posts on here - I reckon that I should pack up my blanket, folding chair, sandwich box and flask - stop going to Speedway and get myself in to an Old Peoples Home where I can play or watch tiddleywinks in nice plush surroundings whilst listening to Vera Lynn on the wireless. :sad:

 

I'm 68 years of age - obviously FAR too old to attend Speedway at Concession Rate. I should probably leave the Sport for the youngsters - er?? Where are they?

 

You don't get it Ian. No one would suggest a campaign to stop old folk attending, the point is, marketed and presented as it should be it is highly likely Speedway would have no attraction to them. Lots of oldies used to frequent Lakeside for the BDO darts, have a look at a modern evening of Premier League darts and see how many old folk are there, there is no campaign to stop them but presented that way they do not wish to attend

 

Do you go to a nightclub on a Friday night in Sunderland? I am guessing the answer is no, now why is that do you think

[arthur cross]

But if we accept that, then where are the new fans going to come from to stop the whole thing going completely down the drain?

 

What you are saying is that British speedway is effectively finished.

 

I don't reckon as basic a statement as "British speedway is effectively finished" is correct ... providing it adopts a realistic economic attitude to its current plight, it can give itself a chance to settle down before trying to build itself back up (the biggest worry in all of that is whether enough clubs or supporters are patient enough to accept that's going to take some time to achieve).

 

However, I'm certain the current format of British speedway is effectively finished ... in fact, given plenty of clubs in both the Elite and Premier leagues have been losing hefty sums of money for at least the last 3 seasons, it's been effectively finished for some time but it's been allowed to stagger towards even greater decline because too many of the people in charge clung onto the lovely hope of "it must get better eventually" and spent far too long bickering over relatively trivial matters within the sport while the juggernaut of the general economic downturn hurtled towards them.

 

The Premier League collectively have made a huge effort this year towards keeping their costs under better control ... there's still a long way to go but at least the momentum's now in place to avoid carelessly letting costs spiral out of control again.

 

There's been plenty of debate on this forum in recent years (from their own fans and on a wider basis) about whether Ipswich were right or wrong to choose to drop down from being a 2010 Elite team into being a 2011 Premier team ... from what I've seen, that decision has turned out to be exactly the kind of realistic economic thinking I'd recommend for the whole sport.

 

I can understand Shale Shaker's concern about where new fans are going to come from but given the current situation, I'd argue too many aspects of British speedway aren't ready yet to make the most of new fans and hang onto them ... hence, maybe it's better to get the current mess sorted out first so that any future push towards attracting those new fans has the best possible chance of succeeding.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Meanwhile, although I've been very critical sometimes on this forum regarding Philip Rising's posts, I'll willingly applaud him for his post on this thread early this morning summing up the article he's written on his concerns about the current situation.

 

It looks like he's adopting a totally realistic and accurate view about just how much damage has been done already on top of previous damage which makes it so much harder to unravel everything now.

Edited June 28, 2013 by arthur cross

[Guest]

I am coming increasingly to the view that speedway should drop the league/team racing format and base meetings on the style that have developed and survived so successfully in the USA.

Additionally, it could be that promoters should stage meetings perhaps only every two weeks over a season from mid-Apriil and ending at the second week of September.

[Ommer Mon]

Totally agree with Philip Rising and Arthur Cross.

 

For the good (or even survival)of the sport we really do need to have some serious discussions and hard decisions about restructuring over the Winter, especially if Sky pull out.

 

Whilst I am sure we would all want to end up at Shale Shaker's position of new fans being attracted in healthy numbers, in the short term it is more about protecting the attendance levels we have and making sure that cost increases don't force more people to stay at home.

 

Let's look at the costs for riders, equipment, maintenance and flights and feed any savings through to the poor old punter who is still trying to fund his hobby whilst being battered economically on all fronts.

 

I think the majority of fans would appreciate leadership and bold decisions as long as we thought it may preserve the sport and allow it to improve and perhaps even flourish again when the economy picks up.

 

Whether its £10 or not the very basic message has to be 'no more price rises' because the money is not there at the moment.

[ch958]

Totally agree with Philip Rising and Arthur Cross.

 

For the good (or even survival)of the sport we really do need to have some serious discussions and hard decisions about restructuring over the Winter, especially if Sky pull out.

 

Whilst I am sure we would all want to end up at Shale Shaker's position of new fans being attracted in healthy numbers, in the short term it is more about protecting the attendance levels we have and making sure that cost increases don't force more people to stay at home.

 

Let's look at the costs for riders, equipment, maintenance and flights and feed any savings through to the poor old punter who is still trying to fund his hobby whilst being battered economically on all fronts.

 

I think the majority of fans would appreciate leadership and bold decisions as long as we thought it may preserve the sport and allow it to improve and perhaps even flourish again when the economy picks up.

 

Whether its £10 or not the very basic message has to be 'no more price rises' because the money is not there at the moment.

 

i think this sums up the whole point of this post and despite all the nasty comments from some i think it was a discussion worth having and i sincerely hope someone of influence is persuaded. People talk about crap product but lesser riders are just as exiting to watch as gp stars most of the time. In any case this is where i bow out of the discussion - thanks for the positive comments and support from most. Few of the critics have offered an alternative. Maybe £10 isnt right but neither is 17

[daveallan81]

There may be more to the earlier musical analogy than you think. I've been in and around the club/pub cabaret scene for over 25 years in a multitude of guises from performer to roadie and there are undoubtedly parallels to speedway. The clubs were at their peak in the seventies to the extent that if you weren't in the queue at 7 o'clock there was a good chance you weren't getting a seat. In many towns across the country it was THE place to be of a weekend. When I entered the game in the mid-eighties things had taken a dip but you could still easily find work 3/4 nights a week, more if you were a true top liner. Many acts were full-time performers, no need for a day job, and they commanded wages that the ordinary working man could only dream about.

 

As the eighties rolled over to the nineties it was plain to see that crowds were fading away. The clubs became more unfashionable with what we term the 'younger generation' as they saw the fare on offer as something for their mums and dads. The majority of promoters/convenors did little to address this. Crowds continued to dwindle and work for acts began to dry up. Where once you could easily make a living on your own doorstep, you were now having to travel much further afield to keep the diary full. The faces in the crowd got older and older, fewer and fewer and still it was bingo and a singer.

 

Fast forward to today and you're lucky to have a gig a week in your diary. Thursday/Friday/Sunday nights are all but gone, and clubs and pubs have closed down in their thousands. You can blame the smoking ban, cheap supermarket booze, the recession, whatever takes your fancy but the bottom line is they failed to move with the times and many have now paid the ultimate price. There are those who survive, indeed prosper, and those are the places that adapted to demand, changed the bill, promoted to the younger crowd and tried at least to keep it fresh. But by and large you stand on the stage looking out a smattering of faces, most of them in their 50's and 60's, all waiting for their bingo card and yet another rendition from the Tony Orlando songbook.

 

You can swap out 99% of the above and replace it with speedway - riders having to race across two, even three leagues to make any sort of living. Deserted stadiums populated only with those who have been traipsing along for years. Little effort (apparently) being made to modernise and refresh the entertainment on offer, and those that try do so in the fear that they will isolate their remaining crowd, such is the thinness of the line they are walking financially.

 

The £10 notion is an honourable one but it is completely unworkable. Based on figures provided by the management at Glasgow they would have to double their average gate to break even. You'd have to be either wildly optimistic or clinically insane to believe that will happen. The sport has had myriad opportunities to build a solid base for it's future but chose not to do so for whatever reason and, like the club and pub circuit, has largely had it's day. Like the acts who once commanded £400 a night but now work for a third of that just to do what they love, riders have to realise, or be made to realise, that the money at UK level isn't there any more. Address that issue and you might, just might, save the sport in some form in this country.

 

Over the years I've heard many convenors tell me their answer to dragging their social club out of the mire. The one that has always remained with me came from arguably one of the most successful clubs still operating in the West of Scotland - "Never pander to the minority". Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there. Perhaps not. Perhaps it's too late to make any difference.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Looks like Speedway Star could well be an interesting read next week. I just hope that the powers that be take onboard now that things need to change & start the planning for that to happen from next season. Is it time for another Lord Shawcross type of thing as was done in the 1960's?

[mikebv]

Looks like Speedway Star could well be an interesting read next week. I just hope that the powers that be take onboard now that things need to change & start the planning for that to happen from next season. Is it time for another Lord Shawcross type of thing as was done in the 1960's?

 

just read the piece in speedway star xtra. Excellent, objective comment from Philip Rising...

 

my concern sadly is that in Philip's comments, nothing is new, as all is blindingly obvious and has been put into print thousands of times over the past ten to fifteen years or so by fans the length and breadth of the country..

 

however, when I say 'blindingly obvious' it seems to have only been so by an ever decreasing fan base themselves and not the people who have driven speedway down a cul de sac the wrong way for what seems like forever.

 

let's be honest, even as recent as the start of the season in an edition of the speedway star, one promoter deemed everything as rosy in the garden and wondered why fans knocked what was on offer each week !,

 

truly, truly mind blowing..

 

perversely though, maybe the sport is so knackered now that even the most blind of promoters are seeing the true picture of the dire situation that exists and 'one or two' may even be considering that 'the recession', 'the olympics', 'the world cup', 'the euros', 'wimbledon', the boat race', 'climate change' etc etc etc are not the reasons fans have deserted the sport in droves over the years and maybe, just maybe, 'one or two' may feel that they too have had a 'small part' to play in the sports demise in this country?

 

sadly, given the evidence of their track record, I do fear that those who run the sport haven't got the capability, or foresight, to do something anywhere near radical enough to completely change the sports direction and fortunes, such is the frankly amateurish way the sport 'governs itself'..

 

without an independent, strong, leadership team who have a clear vision for success (and more importantly can deliver it over a set period of time) then the sport in this country is I would suggest for want of a better phrase irrevocably 'donald ducked'...

 

that would be a great shame, however you do reap what you sow, and the head in the sand/make it up as you go along/survival of the weakest/stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and go "laaa laaa I cant hear you" mentality which has prevailed for so long is certainly delivering the only outcome it could....

 

maybe they will listen to you Philip?

 

God knows the fans that are left have tried!!

Edited June 28, 2013 by mikebv