£10 Sport?

[oldace]

Page after page of dragging the sport down to make it fit into some "it's a bit crap, but at least it's cheap" edict.

 

Every other sport has over recent years has at least tried to evolve and maximise value AND maximise its income through improvement. Speedway & a majority of fans more spend time languishing in 40 year old memories.

 

The reason speedway is in the state it's in is because that's where it and the majority of supporters are suited.

 

Spot on, speedway cant look to be adding new fans to the majority of existing ones, the radical overhaul speedway needs to attract a new younger audience would (and should) alienate most of the geriatric sandwiches and Thermos brigade.

 

The fact someone considered music as just a filler to be on whilst you chat and fill in your programme tells you something. There is more atmosphere at a Darby and Joan social evening. The correct music choice is the single biggest thing a presentation team has to use to build an atmosphere but clubs don't get it, but of course an 80 year old announcer wouldn't (and couldn't) get it

[arthur cross]

One of the other key things which need to be done is to increase the supply of Speedway matches, because a basic rule of economics is supply and demand. If supply is limited then price will rise as the wealthy will pay more to have what the poor can't afford!

 

So, say I attend 14 home matches at £17, that's an expenditure of £238. Say there are 25 matches throughout a season at £10 each and I attend all of them. That's an income of £250. Not much of an increase I hear you say but at £10 a few (let's say for every die hard 2) ex-fans get interested again and in year 1 attend 5 matches perceived to be the best the season has to offer, e.g. Swindon v Poole; King's Lynn; Birmingham; Wolves and Lakeside in the current season.

 

Let's say there are 1000 die hards who each spend £250 in the season, that's an income of £250,000. But also, for every die hard you have 2 (another 2000) spending £10 on 5 matches (£100,000!) So now you have an income of £350,000 a year as opposed to 1000 X 14 X £17= £238,000!!! An increase in revenue of 47% on the basis of reducing the price and increasing the supply-both things which every fan would die for.

 

 

Are you for real with boneheaded economic thinking like that ? !!

 

Yes, you've come up with a way you think would increase total revenue by 47% but you seem to have conveniently ignored whether going down your route might increase your costs as well.

 

in fact, you've committed yourself to raising your on-the-day costs by 79% (the leap from 14 meetings to 25 meetings) - that's certainly the case for booking your medical cover, paying the referee's match-fee, each meeting's insurance and your track-prep team ... it'll also be the case for renting your stadium unless you're in the minority that already own their own venue (or the very few who pay a lump sum of annual rent to the stadium owner).

 

On top of that, by committing yourself at the start of the year to 25 meetings instead of 14, you're leaving yourself much less room to squeeze in the re-staging of any rained-off meetings without having to use some off-nights that won't suit your die-hards (never mind the more occasional supporters) ... alternatively, later in the season you'll probably end up running a re-staged meeting just to get it out of the way in damper conditions than those under which it was called off in the first place back in the spring so that's another way you won't even get all the fans you think are die-hards attending (never mind those more occasional supporters).

 

Overall (in any line of business, not just speedway), if I told you I might increase your total revenue by 47% providing the weather stays lovely but you've got to find 79% more on-the-day costs and it'll all go belly-up once you've had 3 or more wet days dumped on you by the fickle British climate, would you:

 

A - still plunge ahead with staging 25 meetings instead of 14 ?

 

B - be far more realistic about what you've regarded as a triumphant 47% increase in revenue ?

 

Come on then folks ... who's answering A ... and who's answering B ?

Edited June 27, 2013 by arthur cross

[Backless]

Would it help if, at those additional meetings, the clubs prise a shiny 50p "donation" from every child?

 

Look at all the Kids For A Quid deals - what has that done? Charge the little buggers more than adult prices.

 

Then, when they're earning, they can drop off the old folk at the Day Care Centre / Speedway for a good natter of an evening.

[ch958]

Page after page of dragging the sport down to make it fit into some "it's a bit crap, but at least it's cheap" edict.

 

Every other sport has over recent years has at least tried to evolve and maximise value AND maximise its income through improvement. Speedway & a majority of fans more spend time languishing in 40 year old memories.

 

The reason speedway is in the state it's in is because that's where it and the majority of supporters are suited.

 

 

here we go again with the criticism

 

WHERES YOUR IDEAS?

 

get more GP riders

pay more air fares

charge £20, 25, 30

[Fromafar]

Page after page of dragging the sport down to make it fit into some "it's a bit crap, but at least it's cheap" edict.

 

Every other sport has over recent years has at least tried to evolve and maximise value AND maximise its income through improvement. Speedway & a majority of fans more spend time languishing in 40 year old memories.

 

The reason speedway is in the state it's in is because that's where it and the majority of supporters are suited.

The trouble with British speedway is that the variations in tracks sizes and shapes and technical nature of the sport is that modern technology has taken over ,the BSPA over the years have done very little in technical aspects of the sport to address this issue in British speedway and the entertainment value has dropped due to gate and go racing.Tracks in. Poland ,Sweden and recent British purpose built tracks are better suited to modern technology and is therefore much more likely to produce more entertaining racing.You can price anything according to the demand from the public.British Superbikes being an example . Edited June 27, 2013 by Fromafar

[Chalkie]

Are you for real with boneheaded economic thinking like that ? !!

 

Yes, you've come up with a way you think would increase total revenue by 47% but you seem to have conveniently ignored whether going down your route might increase your costs as well.

 

in fact, you've committed yourself to raising your on-the-day costs by 79% (the leap from 14 meetings to 25 meetings) - that's certainly the case for booking your medical cover, paying the referee's match-fee, each meeting's insurance and your track-prep team ... it'll also be the case for renting your stadium unless you're in the minority that already own their own venue (or the very few who pay a lump sum of annual rent to the stadium owner).

 

On top of that, by committing yourself at the start of the year to 25 meetings instead of 14, you're leaving yourself much less room to squeeze in the re-staging of any rained-off meetings without having to use some off-nights that won't suit your die-hards (never mind the more occasional supporters) ... alternatively, later in the season you'll probably end up running a re-staged meeting just to get it out of the way in damper conditions than those under which it was called off in the first place back in the spring so that's another way you won't even get all the fans you think are die-hards attending (never mind those more occasional supporters).

 

Overall (in any line of business, not just speedway), if I told you I might increase your total revenue by 47% providing the weather stays lovely but you've got to find 79% more on-the-day costs and it'll all go belly-up once you've had 3 or more wet days dumped on you by the fickle British climate, would you:

 

A - still plunge ahead with staging 25 meetings instead of 14 ?

 

B - be far more realistic about what you've regarded as a triumphant 47% increase in revenue ?

 

Come on then folks ... who's answering A ... and who's answering B ?

Well, you are a very rude individual, whose surname seems to be thoroughly apt. I had ignored costs of running the extra 11 meetings and I thank you for pointing out my omission. You could have also argued with my other assumptions, e.g. 2 extra attendees for each diehard, each extra attendee attends 5 matches and the fact that I also proposed some fairly radical cost cutting by promoters. However, you cannot argue the basic laws of supply and demand, which were the basic premiss of my theory.

 

Mind you, you have made me question why I bother to post on this forum with people like you who have to be aggressive and call others names, just because your opinion is more worthy then theirs. It's supposed to be a place where we can discuss and debate things of interest but I'm pretty sure the rules ask that you do not abuse other members.

[New Science]

semi pro is the only way to go for el and pl in britain. theres nothing to worry about - the racing will be fine

you dont need the big names

Do we not have this model already ! Its called the National League,majority semi pro and £10 in. Problem is this model is still not attracting big crowds or making profit for promoters.Granted Dudley are an exception but even their promoters were financially not in a position to move up a league and increase their costs even thou their fans wanted the move.If £10 speedway was the answer why is the National League not an unreserved success ? It seems to be the blueprint that everyone is advocating.

[arthur cross]

I had ignored costs of running the extra 11 meetings and I thank you for pointing out my omission.

 

However, you cannot argue the basic laws of supply and demand, which were the basic premiss of my theory.

 

Mind you, you have made me question why I bother to post on this forum with people like you who have to be aggressive and call others names, just because your opinion is more worthy then theirs. It's supposed to be a place where we can discuss and debate things of interest but I'm pretty sure the rules ask that you do not abuse other members.

 

Thank you for your reply and in response to it ...

 

1. By admitting you forgot about the extra costs associated with running your 11 extra meetings, you've totally justified my assessment of your economic thinking as "boneheaded" because that's a rather huge aspect to forget !!

 

2. Correct, you can't argue against the basic laws of supply and demand ... but based on what I was taught within economics at O-level, A-level and for half of my university degree, it's a pity you haven't a clue what you're talking about ... in reality, those basic laws of supply and demand have to be set alongside the figurework of profit and loss so that you can work out the best economic way forward.

 

You can bring in as much revenue as you like from different varieties of your admission prices and the number of meetings you're running ... but if the costs of staging all those different mixes of supply and demand keep leaving you with a loss rather than a profit, there's not much point trying any of them !!

 

3. Correct, the guideline/rule on this forum (and most others) are "attack the post, not the poster" ... I have nothing personal against you whatsoever but I do feel that guideline/rule covers the way I've commented about what you wrote a couple of days ago (especially in view of your subsequent admission about simply forgetting the extra costs).

 

Clearly what I'd regard as a helpful and intelligent response to your original post, you regard as "aggressive" ... I'd argue that far too often, far too many people on this forum whinge that they're being "abused" when all they're actually doing is struggling to cope with others being prepared to stand up for a different view to their own.

Edited June 27, 2013 by arthur cross

[Chalkie]

Thank you for your reply and in response to it ...

 

1. By admitting you forgot about the extra costs associated with running your 11 extra meetings, you've totally justified my assessment of your economic thinking as "boneheaded" because that's a rather huge aspect to forget !!

 

2. Correct, you can't argue against the basic laws of supply and demand ... but based on what I was taught within economics at O-level, A-level and for half of my university degree, it's a pity you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

 

3. Correct, the guideline/rule on this forum (and most others) are "attack the post, not the poster" ... I have nothing personal against you whatsoever but I do feel that guideline/rule covers the way I've commented about what you've written.

You certainly surprised me there, as I was expecting an apology! Let me quote Collins Dictionary. Boneheaded is an adjective of Bonehead "a foolish, stupid or obstinate person" well I may be foolish/stupid but obstinate I ain't so I won't be responding to any more of your comments because if you have nothing against me personally, I would hate to experience it if you did!

[arthur cross]

Let me quote Collins Dictionary. Boneheaded is an adjective of Bonehead "a foolish, stupid or obstinate person" well I may be foolish/stupid but obstinate I ain't so I won't be responding to any more of your comments because if you have nothing against me personally, I would hate to experience it if you did!

 

If someone subsequently admits he might be 2 out of the 3 dictionary definitions of the word I used earlier to describe his economic thinking, I reckon my description was rather accurate !!

[Grand Central]

I see that tickets bought in advance for the Kings Lynn SWC Round are £15.

This seems just about right.

 

It would not be unreasonable to expect a league match to cost a few quid less.

But not more.

[ch958]

Do we not have this model already ! Its called the National League,majority semi pro and £10 in. Problem is this model is still not attracting big crowds or making profit for promoters.Granted Dudley are an exception but even their promoters were financially not in a position to move up a league and increase their costs even thou their fans wanted the move.If £10 speedway was the answer why is the National League not an unreserved success ? It seems to be the blueprint that everyone is advocating.

 

its attracting small crowds because they are the smallest clubs

besides its not the model - there would be current pl riders too but riding for money promotors can afford

[New Science]

its attracting small crowds because they are the smallest clubs

besides its not the model - there would be current pl riders too but riding for money promotors can afford

Any room for the Elite league boys (Harris,Nicholls,King,Bridger,Mear)who have served British speedway well or will they be surplus in the new £10 model ?

[Backless]

 

 

 

here we go again with the criticism

 

WHERES YOUR IDEAS?

 

get more GP riders

pay more air fares

charge £20, 25, 30

 

Is that what I suggested? No - just the typical bleating bobble hat wearing response to anyone who doesn't agree with with the "crap but cheap" brigade.

 

For years GB has been a PL country. So run a PL standard league. If it means a few "names" aren't riding here, fine - they don't particularly want to anyway. That why the Elite League has disappeared up its own backside by cancelling the KO Cup and half the B fixtures.

 

I wouldn't advocate 25 instead of 14 but what the Hell is with14 fixtures spread over 6 months or more?

 

If it means 1 or 2 Brits are squeezed out, so be it.

 

Then, instead of Golden Wedding Record Requests (dear God), put on a proper bloody show instead of the disheveled farce that goes on at the vast majority of tracks.

 

If riders can be served up to answer inane questions from the bint on Sky, they can do the same at every match - but not being interviewed by geriatrics who remember Johnnie Hoskins in his prime.

 

It's about a SHOW not background music, it's about making an effort.

[arthur cross]

Any room for the Elite league boys (Harris,Nicholls,King,Bridger,Mear)who have served British speedway well or will they be surplus in the new £10 model ?

 

On current ability/form, only any riders who would be much better than the standard of current PL number-1's would need to fear being "surplus" in relation to their scoring power if there's a merging of the Elite & Premier Leagues to fit into a "£10 model" ... whether they'd feel "surplus" because they'd reckon they wouldn't be paid enough within a "£10 model" is a different matter depending on how those potential "£10 model" earnings would compare to their Polish or Swedish wages.

 

Given the scores that riders like Edward Kennett, Simon Stead (get well soon Simon) and Ben Barker have been getting in recent weeks as PL number-1's, I don't see riders like Danny King and Lewis Bridger being far too strong for the Premier League if they were currently riding for any of those teams while I'd be surprised if Robert Mear even claimed the number-1 racejacket at that level.

 

So among British riders, that probably leaves just Tai Woffinden, Chris Harris and Scott Nicholls even reaching any discussion of "would they be far too strong ?".

 

From what I've seen in 2013, my answers would be that only Woffinden would be too strong by a wide margin with Harris being a bit too strong and Nicholls right on the borderline ... however, given the stage he's at in his career, Nicholls might well dip below that borderline by the time any merger took effect.

 

It's also worth noting that in Sweden (where the Elit and the Allsvenskan are by far the closest equivalents to our Elite and Premier), as high profile a GP-rider as Andreas Jonsson was in Rospiggarna's title-chasing squad last year in the Allsvenskan enabling that club to decide each Thursday whether they wanted a top-heavy lineup that included him or a strength-in-depth lineup that gave him the night off ... if he could still take part in his homeland's second level, it ought not to be too hard to accommodate just one or two British superstars in any team-building rules over here.

 

While wanting to encourage new fans (or lapsed fans back into the sport), I also think a "£10 model" is a bit too cheap a route to be sketching out for the future of the sport regardless of how neat and tidy a figure it looks ... I'd reckon a "£12 model" would be more appropriate if you're realistically going to find the balance between a fair price for the fans and a fair wage for the risks the riders are taking.

Edited June 27, 2013 by arthur cross

[Backless]

Any room for the Elite league boys (Harris,Nicholls,King,Bridger,Mear)who have served British speedway well or will they be surplus in the new £10 model ?

 

Well, there would be an empty berth for Robert Mear, who served Rye House so well this year.

 

 

[Shale Shaker]

here we go again with the criticism

 

WHERES YOUR IDEAS?

 

get more GP riders

pay more air fares

charge £20, 25, 30

 

Most "new" fans I have come across recently have been turned on to the sport by watching the GP's on TV.

 

Having been exposed to that level of presentation, excitement professionalism, imagine their disappointment on turning up to a crumbling stadium to stand amongst old men watching lacklustre racing.

 

Now imagine lowering the standard of everything even further by going down the £10 route and it's not difficult to see how the sport becomes even less attractive.

 

British speedway should be aspiring to the levels attained by the GP's, not further degrading an already shoddy product.

Otherwise what future is there?

[arthur cross]

British speedway should be aspiring to the levels attained by the GP's, not further degrading an already shoddy product.

Otherwise what future is there?

 

 

In an ideal world, of course we'd love British speedway to aspire to GP-levels ... but given how long-drawn-out it's proving to build just one shiny new international stadium in this country (the new Belle Vue down the road from the current one), how long's it going to take to build smart-enough venues to match your aspirations for every Elite club over here ?

 

Remember, the new Belle Vue relies on the local council stumping up the majority of the funding to build it which the Aces will then repay as a 60-year loan.

 

Think about the new venues which have been completed in this country in the last 15 years ... all of Somerset, Scunthorpe, Redcar, Plymouth and Leicester have been built in fairly basic fashion to begin with (while also leaving room for further facilities to be added) because no-one's been anywhere close towards wanting to risk a bolder initial development.

 

Somerset's fine clubhouse that can bring in extra revenue from social gatherings is probably the best item that's been added later to any of those new venues but I suspect all 5 of them aren't keeping up with the pace of developments their respective original architects had in mind.

 

Other sports in this country are littered with plush venues that are surplus to realistic requirements ... look at how little use London''s Olympic Stadium will get before West Ham finally move in about 4 years after the Olympics themselves ... Durham cricket has already handed back for re-location some of the less money-spinning internationals it's been granted ... and don't go near any Coventry or Wolves football fans to tell them about aspirational new or expanded venues as those sides prepare to meet each other in a few months in their sport's third level.

 

The only realistic long-term route for British speedway is to accept its current place in the world pecking-order well beneath the GP-glitz and try to gradually climb up towards that shiny target ... good luck finding the money, administrative talent and public enthusiasm for any much quicker fix after many years of sliding towards shoddiness.

Edited June 27, 2013 by arthur cross

[MattK]

 

British speedway should be aspiring to the levels attained by the GP's, not further degrading an already shoddy product.

Otherwise what future is there?

 

I agree, but this would require significant investment in promotion and marketing. I don't think the current speedway establishment are capable or willing to do that.

 

The alternative is cutting your cloth accordingly, which I think is the more sustainable option going forwards.

[Shale Shaker]

The only realistic long-term route for British speedway is to accept its current place in the world pecking-order well beneath the GP-glitz and try to gradually climb up towards that shiny target ... good luck finding the money, administrative talent and public enthusiasm for any much quicker fix after many years of sliding towards shoddiness.

 

But if we accept that, then where are the new fans going to come from to stop the whole thing going completely down the drain?

 

What you are saying is that British speedway is effectively finished.