Elephantman Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I do not disagree with any part of your last post. But if we highlight the two most important sentences above. All hope is lost. And again. Who could disagree. But whence will it come? . All hope need not be lost, if there is no money then you need agreement. What I mean by that is if no sugar daddy or big money is available you have to get all stakeholders (don't you hate that term)to understand what each of them can do to help the sport progress. That requires discussion, a plan and agreement on how to move forward. Speedway needs to get its best people around a table, whether they be promoters or not, agree a way forward and publish a five-year development plan with meaningful, measurable goals. If you've got nothing to aim for you are aiming at nothing! By the way setting goals and missing them is not always a disaster just the act of setting goals will reinvigorate and motivate all those involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 All hope need not be lost, if there is no money then you need agreement. What I mean by that is if no sugar daddy or big money is available you have to get all stakeholders (don't you hate that term)to understand what each of them can do to help the sport progress. That requires discussion, a plan and agreement on how to move forward. Speedway needs to get its best people around a table, whether they be promoters or not, agree a way forward and publish a five-year development plan with meaningful, measurable goals. If you've got nothing to aim for you are aiming at nothing! By the way setting goals and missing them is not always a disaster just the act of setting goals will reinvigorate and motivate all those involved. Yet again who could disagree? If only we were talking of an entirely different business or sport. But the only people we have are Speedway promoters. The use of words such as plan, agreement etc along with 'Speedway's best people' can only make me repeat. All hope is lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yet again who could disagree? If only we were talking of an entirely different business or sport. But the only people we have are Speedway promoters. The use of words such as plan, agreement etc along with 'Speedway's best people' can only make me repeat. All hope is lost. I do hope not! If it provides an indicator of what can be achieved Cycle Speedway attracts a similar demographic in terms of support and participation with a history of the same types of internal conflict and partisan decision making that can be seen in most sports. CS was in a significant degree of difficulty some years ago (and in some areas still is) but it got together a 5 year plan on how to move forward and make the clubs in the sport self sustaining. Some have made it work some haven't but it is in a far better position than it was. A completely different business model of course, but if the issue is people not working together for the greater good, CS can show Speedway how it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I do hope not! If it provides an indicator of what can be achieved Cycle Speedway attracts a similar demographic in terms of support and participation with a history of the same types of internal conflict and partisan decision making that can be seen in most sports. CS was in a significant degree of difficulty some years ago (and in some areas still is) but it got together a 5 year plan on how to move forward and make the clubs in the sport self sustaining. Some have made it work some haven't but it is in a far better position than it was. A completely different business model of course, but if the issue is people not working together for the greater good, CS can show Speedway how it was done. Well, I genuinely admire your hope and your faith in the people charged with handling all this. I really, really don't want to be one to quash that optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I Personaly was disappointed that there was so little new ideas and change came out of the Promoters Conference thus giving fans the impression that everything was Ok and all these mutterings of discontent was from a small majority on forums and Facebook ect. Unfortunately it looks like a lot fans who don't use these Media's for voicing their opinion's have just drifted away IMO.Negative opinions don't show the sport in good light,but constructive criticism should be taken on board.You could argue all day on the way forward for the Sport but the Promotions are the people who run the show and it is up to them collectively to get the show back on the road (providing they think something is not working).Reading some Promoters response to fans survey in the Speedway Star I was not impressed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I believe speedway to be a £10 sport. I've read others say the same thing.... now i'll await the flak No flak. Just an idea. Word is that Tony Mole is about to reopen Bradford. Why not everyone on BSF who agrees with the "Speedway fo a Tenner" idea club together as a consortium and go into partnership with Tony Mole, and put your own money where your mouths are? Bradford could then be the £10 Team you all want. If they succeed then you will be hero's and will show the way to everyone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Greyhound racing could be comparable in many ways to Speedway, dwindling crowds, run down Stadia, but a few years ago, they came up with the 6 Pack for a Tenner idea, admission, a drink, fast food meal, a bet, program, and re admission to another meeting all for a TENNER, now normal admission is £5 on average. Greyhound racing is comparable with Speedway, and its fighting for the same leisure pound. Speedway admission prices, its NOT what WE as supporters see Speedway as, its what NON Speedway fans see us as, and i am pretty sure, they see us as a £10 sport, promoters HAVE got to get it DOWN to that or see it die as WE know it. For years now promoters have paid lip service to supporters, and taken us for granted, the time has come where either they listen, and react, or they will get bitten in the bum, especially if sky pull out. Edited June 17, 2013 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well it would appear the cost to watch top flight speedway in Poland is about £12 & seems to be a much better product than over here. In a country where a pint of quality beer is about £1, by your logic it costs 12 pints of beer to see a Polish speedway meeting. That's at least twice as much as it costs in Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 In a country where a pint of quality beer is about £1, by your logic it costs 12 pints of beer to see a Polish speedway meeting. That's at least twice as much as it costs in Britain. Speedway is now very expensive in Poland, this is reflected in the falling attendances. Why the big issue over these so called overheads. A speedway bike is the simplest form of motorbike around and yet tuners charge a fortune, why?. Quite simply because they know the worth of a few extra points to a top rider. It is the high wages that have driven the high costs in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduds1 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the admission cost is £10 then almost £2 of that is V.A.T. It costs around £2000 to hire the stadium and roughly £600 for first aid, then you have the cost of shale, repairs to air fences, insurances and other overheads, losses due to rain-offs, accountancy and book-keeping. printing plus all the other overheads of running a business before you start paying riders I would love some of those who reckon the sport could be run on what is effectively an £8 admission after VAT to tell us how they work the sums out and their basis for saying the crowd increase would be sufficient to break even let alone show a profit. If EL promoters receive £100k sky money which seems to be the general consensus on here, then running 14 meetings a year would cost in the region of £36,400 per season in rent and first aid leaving £63,600 for other expenses. Those expenses would'nt get anywhere near this sum so a fair amount of £63k would be left for riders expenses, add to this entrance money, programmes and sponsorship. We need to employ riders that are committed to the EL and living in this country ( I think a lot of riders live in this country anyway during the season ) thus cutting out expensive flights, if they want to ride in Poland/Sweden then let them pay for flights both ways or the riders to contribute towards them Why don't clubs employ a mechanic or two to look after all there riders bikes, they could even clean them after the meeting because the riders would only need them in this country ( obviously a different system would have to be put into place for doubling up riders ) the club could then buy there own van to transport them and the riders could use there own cars as 99% of the working populace have to. This would'nt cost any more than now as clubs are already paying out for mechanics and vans for some riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) No flak. Just an idea. Word is that Tony Mole is about to reopen Bradford. Why not everyone on BSF who agrees with the "Speedway fo a Tenner" idea club together as a consortium and go into partnership with Tony Mole, and put your own money where your mouths are? Bradford could then be the £10 Team you all want. If they succeed then you will be hero's and will show the way to everyone else. I'll have to politely decline your kind invitation. I cannot put my money where my mouth is at the moment as I am a little over extended. I made the comment that I thought RBS were not performing well so have had to put all my savings and spare time into running their company; and that comes on top of my previous commitments to Syria, the G8, the EU and the promises I made to Michael Gove to sort out his GCSE problems. The thing is I keep forgetting that whenever you express an opinion on any subject in the world you always have to be prepared to take on the running of the whole thing. Otherwise you are meant to be silent. Silly, silly me. If EL promoters receive £100k sky money which seems to be the general consensus on here, then running 14 meetings a year would cost in the region of £36,400 per season in rent and first aid leaving £63,600 for other expenses. Those expenses would'nt get anywhere near this sum so a fair amount of £63k would be left for riders expenses, add to this entrance money, programmes and sponsorship. We need to employ riders that are committed to the EL and living in this country ( I think a lot of riders live in this country anyway during the season ) thus cutting out expensive flights, if they want to ride in Poland/Sweden then let them pay for flights both ways or the riders to contribute towards them Why don't clubs employ a mechanic or two to look after all there riders bikes, they could even clean them after the meeting because the riders would only need them in this country ( obviously a different system would have to be put into place for doubling up riders ) the club could then buy there own van to transport them and the riders could use there own cars as 99% of the working populace have to. This would'nt cost any more than now as clubs are already paying out for mechanics and vans for some riders. I think I would agree with a great many of the cost cutting points you make. I fear that others may attack you on the basis that the figures may be a little off. Each club gets quite bit less than £100,000 for sure. There is the GoSpeed cut for a start. . Edited June 17, 2013 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 In a country where a pint of quality beer is about £1, by your logic it costs 12 pints of beer to see a Polish speedway meeting. That's at least twice as much as it costs in Britain. tax skews the price here though so your argument is a bit flat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelcroucher Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sppedway has got too expensive for this country. People watch their money a lot more now then a few years ago. With this in mind then speedway needs to come down in price. I know some people will say £15 - £17 not bad but when you think you are only getting 17mins avg for £15 it expensive. A race is normally 1min or less sometimes just over with only 15 races as someone has said it works out £1 a race. The thing is for me that I find its not so much the paying to get in it’s the add on like a programme, food, fuel, car parking (which is a joke). A normal meeting for me locally will cost around £40-£50 for the night. I don’t have that type of money for week in week out. I have stopped going to speedway as much for the reason its too expensive. When we had teams all over the place then it wasn’t a problem. Promoters need to do something and we have always said on here that they don’t do as much as they use to. With also riders coming from abroad and not making the money because of their outlay well that’s simple don’t sign to ride for that club. I cant seeing speedway changing for years with its price and everything else. For myself its cheaper to use my Avios points a go to Poland which I have done than watch a match in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldswindonsupporter Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 If the market will only pay £10 entry speedway has a real issue. Many costs are fixed and many are outside of the sports control. Add in to this the winter clamour of supporters calling for promoters to get their hands in their pockets to pay for the better riders and all together you have a recipe for disaster. Then the sport's governing body (whatever or whoever that might be really needs to grasp the nettle and sort out quite how to make the sport affordable - it is no good chasing a dream if you can not afford it! Be interesting to see what would happen if the TV contract which ends this year is not renewed quite how drastic the trimming of the product might have to undergo, fixed costs or not. Currently there isn't the money to spend on ferrying riders here there and everywhere, forget the riders deserve everything comment, they do, but, not at a price whereby there is ultimately no product. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 tax skews the price here though so your argument is a bit flat Not in the slightest. Check out (wikipedia for example) what economists call "opportunity cost" - measuring the cost of an item in terms of the foregone alternative. It doesn't matter what the tax on beer is. What matters is, that in Britain, speedway costs about 5 pints of beer and in Poland speedway costs 12 pints of beer. Also worth noting that the average salary for a citizen of (for example) Gorzow and Zielona Gora, (where the best crowds are to be found) is about £800 per month.(Gross) Now work out the cost of speedway in terms of the proportion of monthly earnings and then do the comparison to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'll have to politely decline your kind invitation. I cannot put my money where my mouth is at the moment as I am a little over extended. I made the comment that I thought RBS were not performing well so have had to put all my savings and spare time into running their company; and that comes on top of my previous commitments to Syria, the G8, the EU and the promises I made to Michael Gove to sort out his GCSE problem... I think that you will find that Tony Mole, Len Silver, CVS, Matt Ford etc etc encounter exactly these considerations as well. Surely though if £10 speedway is such a great idea, you'll be able to convince a backer (try the Dragons Den) as you're convinced that the profits will roll in, helping you to pay for the RBS recovery etc etc out of your Corporation Tax and Income Tax payments... Heck, by the end of it, you could even be accused on BSF of being a greedy money grabbing so and so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Not in the slightest. Check out (wikipedia for example) what economists call "opportunity cost" - measuring the cost of an item in terms of the foregone alternative. It doesn't matter what the tax on beer is. What matters is, that in Britain, speedway costs about 5 pints of beer and in Poland speedway costs 12 pints of beer. Also worth noting that the average salary for a citizen of (for example) Gorzow and Zielona Gora, (where the best crowds are to be found) is about £800 per month.(Gross) Now work out the cost of speedway in terms of the proportion of monthly earnings and then do the comparison to the UK. i cant be arsed working it out - Poland's Poland. When people stop watching there they'll have to think of ways to get the crowds back. Whats your idea? All i've said is its not worth more than 10/12 quid thats why people go the flix or shopping but dont go to tracks. I can go to the pics for 8 quid, watch Whitley Bay, £8, 8 cans Kronenberg £8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Shaker Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 i cant be arsed working it out - Poland's Poland. When people stop watching there they'll have to think of ways to get the crowds back. Whats your idea? All i've said is its not worth more than 10/12 quid thats why people go the flix or shopping but dont go to tracks. I can go to the pics for 8 quid, watch Whitley Bay, £8, 8 cans Kronenberg £8 Eight "Ace" £1.49 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Eight "Ace" £1.49 i have standards you know!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Eight "Ace" £1.49 arlll wash me fookin' speedyweh for that, ar wood, und neva aft ter bray me missus fet ter go neetha.. I go back 40 odd years watching the sport 'off and on' and have to say that taking the rose tinted specs off, a lot of what I watched even in 'the good old days' was processional racing with my team BV, in particular at hyde rd, hammering most teams by 20 point margins.. The difference from then to now is when we got yet another 5-1 the crowd level, and therefore subsequent noise level, created an 'atmosphere' that was far greater than the sum of what entertainment value we had watched.., Thus it became a self fulfilling prophecy in that the crowd were involved (as you were stood with thousands you were not inhibited to join in), more away fans were there so more banter took place and therefore regardless of result, you had had a 'good night' and would return the week later... Therefore the equation isnt so much about ten pound speedway but what price level will fill the stadium to bring back that elusive crowd level and 'lost atmosphere'.. The debate about whether cheaper entrance could be afforded could be counted with how much could you charge for sponsorship/season tickets/bar take/prorammes etc if you had 5000 attending every week and how much extra revenue would the increased local (national?) media interest bring in? Always wondered why promoters dont budget their seasons costs with one less meeting's income and let the 'world' in for free to kick start their season, a full house would persuade far more to return the week after I would venture as it would maybe give them the impression the sport was a success and they had been 'missing out'... One thing is for sure, the sport at its current admission levels is unsustainable in its current guise, as its ever dwindling fan base, eroding almost weekly, is testament to.. . Edited June 18, 2013 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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