£10 Sport?

[SCB]

People are saying drop the price from £17 to £10 is a 70% drops in costs but if 60% of your costs are rent and insurance, you're not going to get it under £10 though are you? Even if the riders ride for nothing. to some extent, I feel for the BSPA here in that it might just be impossible. On the other hand, if 90% of the cost is the riders and the riders are spending 50% of their earnings on engine tuners, theres an obvious cost cutting route there.

[E I Addio]

If the admission cost is £10 then almost £2 of that is V.A.T. It costs around £2000 to hire the stadium and roughly £600 for first aid, then you have the cost of shale, repairs to air fences, insurances and other overheads, losses due to rain-offs, accountancy and book-keeping. printing plus all the other overheads of running a business before you start paying riders

 

I would love some of those who reckon the sport could be run on what is effectively an £8 admission after VAT to tell us how they work the sums out and their basis for saying the crowd increase would be sufficient to break even let alone show a profit.

[ch958]

If the admission cost is £10 then almost £2 of that is V.A.T. It costs around £2000 to hire the stadium and roughly £600 for first aid, then you have the cost of shale, repairs to air fences, insurances and other overheads, losses due to rain-offs, accountancy and book-keeping. printing plus all the other overheads of running a business before you start paying riders

 

I would love some of those who reckon the sport could be run on what is effectively an £8 admission after VAT to tell us how they work the sums out and their basis for saying the crowd increase would be sufficient to break even let alone show a profit.

 

 

i dont "reckon" it could be run on £8 I'm just saying the market says its only worth a tenner

 

and so do some of the thousands who have abandoned the sport - obviously there are other factors

 

as usual people criticise but dont offer an answer or an idea - what would you do??

[orion]

If the admission cost is £10 then almost £2 of that is V.A.T. It costs around £2000 to hire the stadium and roughly £600 for first aid, then you have the cost of shale, repairs to air fences, insurances and other overheads, losses due to rain-offs, accountancy and book-keeping. printing plus all the other overheads of running a business before you start paying riders

 

I would love some of those who reckon the sport could be run on what is effectively an £8 admission after VAT to tell us how they work the sums out and their basis for saying the crowd increase would be sufficient to break even let alone show a profit.

 

Surely all above costs are the same if the admission is £17 as they are £10 so not sure what your point is ? surely it's a simple question of would you get enough fans at £10 to make more money overall then having less fans at £17 ..to me that means you would more or less have to double the crowd and for that reason I don't think it would work .

[ch958]

Surely all above costs are the same if the admission is £17 as they are £10 so not sure what your point is ? surely it's a simple question of would you get enough fans at £10 to make more money overall then having less fans at £17 ..to me that means you would more or less have to double the crowd and for that reason I don't think it would work .

 

thats cos you havent been paying attention

 

the idea is to reduce costs to achieve a reasonable entrance fee

 

yes the rent yes first aid

 

but air fares, tuners, fancy vans?

 

when i started watching speedway the riders were car mechanics during the day who strapped a bike to the back of their cortinas

 

when i started watching speedway the riders were car mechanics during the day who strapped a bike to the back of their cortinas

 

that makes me an old fart i know

Edited June 16, 2013 by ch958

[E I Addio]

Surely all above costs are the same if the admission is £17 as they are £10 so not sure what your point is ? surely it's a simple question of would you get enough fans at £10 to make more money overall then having less fans at £17 ..to me that means you would more or less have to double the crowd and for that reason I don't think it would work .

 

That's correct. I only mentioned costs because many people overlook the basics which are quite a lot of money before you even think about paying the riders. As you say you would have to more or less double the crowd to break even.

[Grand Central]

When one is looking to help an Alcoholic recover, it is essential that you reach one critical point

Where the person, themselves, 'admits' that they have a problem.

Until this recgonition is reached then treatment will be impossible.

 

In British Speedway so many people within the sport are swaying in the alleyway, one arm against the wall for support shouting 'we don't have a problem'.

They push away the offers of help from the sober folk that can see the mess they are in.

And after one more drunken rendition of 'I Did it My Way' they stagger off home.

Only to repeat the whole sorry process when they next get paid.

 

I am no councillor who can offer a proven panacea.

 

I just wish that my old friend would wake up tomorrow morning, have a big gulp of black coffee and agree.

Something needs to change.

[ch958]

When one is looking to help an Alcoholic recover, it is essential that you reach one critical point

Where the person, themselves, 'admits' that they have a problem.

Until this recgonition is reached then treatment will be impossible.

 

In British Speedway so many people within the sport are swaying in the alleyway, one arm against the wall for support shouting 'we don't have a problem'.

They push away the offers of help from the sober folk that can see the mess they are in.

And after one more drunken rendition of 'I Did it My Way' they stagger off home.

Only to repeat the whole sorry process when they next get paid.

 

I am no councillor who can offer a proven panacea.

 

I just wish that my old friend would wake up tomorrow morning, have a big gulp of black coffee and agree.

Something needs to change.

 

ha ha brilliant! I've had enough flak from the don't want to change brigade - I'll never top this!!

[E I Addio]

 

 

 

 

when i started watching speedway the riders were car mechanics during the day who strapped a bike to the back of their cortinas

 

 

Jack Parker, Split Waterman, Peter Craven, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Ole Olsen, Peter Collins Malcolm Simmons, Bruce Penhall, Hans Nielson,car mechanics by day ? News to me.

 

If we apply your logic and remove names like those and other top riders from speedway history the sport would be in a worse state than it is now. In any sport its the top stars that draw the crowds.

 

People moan about a watered down league as it is. If you got rid of the all the top stars people are not going to flock to see second strings because its only 10quid. More to the point the big names bring in the sponsors and in many ways that is just as important in terms of cash flow as punters through the turnstiles.

 

Of course costs are spiralling to a ridiculous degree, everybody accepts that, but getting rid of highly paid riders is not going to solve the problem.

[The White Knight]

Jack Parker, Split Waterman, Peter Craven, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Ole Olsen, Peter Collins Malcolm Simmons, Bruce Penhall, Hans Nielson,car mechanics by day ? News to me.

 

If we apply your logic and remove names like those and other top riders from speedway history the sport would be in a worse state than it is now. In any sport its the top stars that draw the crowds.

 

People moan about a watered down league as it is. If you got rid of the all the top stars people are not going to flock to see second strings because its only 10quid. More to the point the big names bring in the sponsors and in many ways that is just as important in terms of cash flow as punters through the turnstiles.

 

Of course costs are spiralling to a ridiculous degree, everybody accepts that, but getting rid of highly paid riders is not going to solve the problem.

 

Well something has to be done to make Speedway a viable proposition.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Well it would appear the cost to watch top flight speedway in Poland is about £12 & seems to be a much better product than over here.

[Grand Central]

Jack Parker, Split Waterman, Peter Craven, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Ole Olsen, Peter Collins Malcolm Simmons, Bruce Penhall, Hans Nielson,car mechanics by day ? News to me.

 

If we apply your logic and remove names like those and other top riders from speedway history the sport would be in a worse state than it is now. In any sport its the top stars that draw the crowds.

 

People moan about a watered down league as it is. If you got rid of the all the top stars people are not going to flock to see second strings because its only 10quid. More to the point the big names bring in the sponsors and in many ways that is just as important in terms of cash flow as punters through the turnstiles.

 

Of course costs are spiralling to a ridiculous degree, everybody accepts that, but getting rid of highly paid riders is not going to solve the problem.

 

 

" I ... DID ... IT.. MYYY ... WAYYYYY"

[E I Addio]

Well it would appear the cost to watch top flight speedway in Poland is about £12 & seems to be a much better product than over here.

 

Their average wage is less than a third of ours so in relation to average income its like spending three times as much to get in (£36), so be careful what you wish for.

Edited June 16, 2013 by E I Addio

[ch958]

Jack Parker, Split Waterman, Peter Craven, Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ivan Mauger, Ole Olsen, Peter Collins Malcolm Simmons, Bruce Penhall, Hans Nielson,car mechanics by day ? News to me.

 

I said the riders I watched - Tom Leadbitter, Pete Reading, Dave Durham, Tim Swales

 

 

If we apply your logic and remove names like those and other top riders from speedway history the sport would be in a worse state than it is now. In any sport its the top stars that draw the crowds.

 

People moan about a watered down league as it is. If you got rid of the all the top stars people are not going to flock to see second strings because its only 10quid. More to the point the big names bring in the sponsors and in many ways that is just as important in terms of cash flow as punters through the turnstiles.

 

Daft as it sounds - without the big names second strings become heat leaders

 

Of course costs are spiralling to a ridiculous degree, everybody accepts that, but getting rid of highly paid riders is not going to solve the problem.

 

well what is??

 

i wish people would stop posting how wrong i am and give me some ideas

Edited June 16, 2013 by ch958

[E I Addio]

well what is??

 

A good start would be regular meetings so fans get the speedway habit. This is probably the worst season ever for a spasmodic fixture list. Most EL clubs only have 14 home league matches now, so if someone goes to say 10 of them that's only £170 admission over the course of a season which is not a lot of money for most people to spend on entertainment, but when the fixture list is hit and miss and matches cancelled on a whim and at a moments notice people get used to spending their money on other things. So if we could get some consistency of the fixture list and if the rules were applied transparently and fairly so all teams had a fair crack of the whip, that wouldn't solve all the sports problems but it would be a big step in the right direction.

 

 

[Vincent Blachshadow]

Of course costs are spiralling to a ridiculous degree, everybody accepts that, but getting rid of highly paid riders is not going to solve the problem.

 

In many discussions on here, we keep getting told that, for most, speedway is all about four blokes racing round a track and much of the rest is incidental. So if the sport is now almost down to the bare-bones of support most will be of the 'all about four blokes' type so should still come regardless of who's out there.

 

 

I don't know if leaving these highly paid riders out is the answer but we'll never know until we try. What I can see though is that, if clubs are making huge losses with these expensive to employ and maintain riders, without them clubs will probably still make losses, but they should be smaller.

 

Cutting the amount of the loss could be the first step to cutting losses all together.

 

A good start would be regular meetings so fans get the speedway habit. This is probably the worst season ever for a spasmodic fixture list. Most EL clubs only have 14 home league matches now, so if someone goes to say 10 of them that's only £170 admission over the course of a season which is not a lot of money for most people to spend on entertainment, but when the fixture list is hit and miss and matches cancelled on a whim and at a moments notice people get used to spending their money on other things. So if we could get some consistency of the fixture list and if the rules were applied transparently and fairly so all teams had a fair crack of the whip, that wouldn't solve all the sports problems but it would be a big step in the right direction.

 

That could stop some regulars giving up coming but will it get newbies? The high cost of the sport could be a deciding factor as to whether a newbie attends a meeting or not. £17 is a lot of money to come and find out you don't like it specially in today's financial state and with plenty of alternatives to spend the money on one does like.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Vincent Blackshadow

[T.N.T.]

The only way Speedway could be a £10 sport is to have a strict pay policy which would in effect mean most of the current EL heat leaders would not make it pay and would be ruled out of riding here.

 

 

So the sport in general would be less appealing to the media (ie Sky) so you would almost certainly lose their money ..... but you would in balance not have to pay out the big cheques to the big riders.

 

Second string EL riders like Lewis Bridger, Nicolai Klindt or Adam Skornicki may think it wont pay, but then think they would be scoring 10-12 a meeting instead of 5-7 so would be earning better money.

 

Trouble is, how could you have Ben Barker, Ricky Wells or Stuart Robson averaging 9+ in the EL and also 9+ in the PL ..... It would in effect mean the EL and PL would have to join forces to make one big league ...... which PL tracks dont want, especially when they have riders of that standard already but are charging the same as EL tracks at present so their costs would hardly change but their income would be 40% less.

 

 

Yes they may increase their gate ..... but if a track has 2,000 regulars now, they eould have to increase that by at least 800 to get the same income which is hard as the sport in many people's mind is not promoted or advertised well enough to attract current non speedway fans. .... so where would those 800+ people come from ?

 

 

In the past I have posted what is known as the TNT Format which basically means the EL would be a less regular event ..... maybe 9 home meetings (10 teams) a season but ALL tracks compete in one big league split into two groups ending in play offs at the end. .... the tracks not competing in the EL would also have Premier Trophy meetings to balance up the number of meetings ridden.

 

Problem is now that there are less riders over here already as 20+ EL riders are also PL heat leaders ....... take 30+ current EL heat leaders out and 20+ less places without doubling up riders would man 50-60 NL riders would be needed to complete 24-26 teams in one big league.

 

 

Basically ....... It aint going to happen as many dont want drasstic changes ..... Turkeys dont vote for Christmas !!

[Elephantman]

I believe speedway to be a £10 sport. I've read others say the same thing.

 

you have to compare other comparable entertainment choices, e.g. cinema about £8, non league football (attracting similar crowd levels) £8-12. You can't compare pro football and I'm not talking about GPs

 

people have criticised me for saying this on here but i would just put forward one law of business:

you can not change the market price.

 

With respect you are looking at this from the wrong angle. You can change price but then you need to understand the affect that will have on demand. If there is a high fixed cost of operation (I believe there is)and demand is inelastic (I believe it is, demand does not change significantly with a change in price) then dropping the price will not cause a significant increase in attendance but will reduce revenues.

 

Speedway must either expand in their current market or make itself attractive to new markets and grow demand that way.

 

One way to do this is to improve the product. Let me give you a specific example. I know someone who will not travel to the local Elite league track (25 minutes away) to stand in a ramshackle stadium watching crap racing. They don't care what it costs, it could be £2.50 and they still would not waste an evening there. On the other hand they will travel a couple of hundred miles 3-4 per year, stay in a hotel, to go to a good stadium with proper bars and restaurants to watch what is generally entertaining racing (as you can tell money is not the issue; good use of time is).

 

The challenge speedway may have is that it does not have enough money to get the product right and attract new custom.

[Shale Shaker]

The challenge speedway may have is that it does not have enough money to get the product right and attract new custom.

 

That's exactly right.

 

Investment is what is actually needed, not reduction in revenue and lowering the quality of the product.

 

Any new track (let alone something like the new Belle Vue Stadium) would never get off the ground with a business model with a £10 entance fee.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Shale Shaker

[Grand Central]

 

Speedway must either expand in their current market or make itself attractive to new markets and grow demand that way.

 

The challenge speedway may have is that it does not have enough money to get the product right and attract new custom.

 

 

I do not disagree with any part of your last post.

But if we highlight the two most important sentences above.

All hope is lost.

 

Investment is what is actually needed

 

And again. Who could disagree.

But whence will it come?

 

.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Grand Central