Conspiracy Theory (sky Meetings)

[salty]

You mention Eastbourne and Lynn wanting 14 meetings, but that is with the current cost base of overseas riders and fitting in meetings around international fixtures.

You offer Buster, Dugard or whoever a league comprised of domestically domiciled individuals available every Saturday and Sunday and then Eastbourne and Lynn would probably be quite happy holding weekly (probably weekend) Speedway again.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Is there an opportunity for genuine promotion and relegation with two leagues of similar standard?

 

I think finances in speedway are too fragile to go down that route. Promotion and relegation only really works where there's more demand for places in a higher league than can be accommodated, and where there are sufficient replacement teams to replace any that financially fall by the wayside.

 

Speedway teams need to be able to race at the level most appropriate to their economic situation - the sport can't afford to lose any unnecessarily.

[manchesterpaul]

I had opted out from speedway for over a decade when the last merger occurred so not sure what caused it to fail. I think i remember reading something since about self-interest in rider reallocation or something? However i so long for the leagues to be united as one - in a non-geographical divide.

 

The current handful of same old, same old teams on Sky each week must be a little puzzling and tiresome for general sports viewers, even speedway fans. So long as rider resources are shared fairly and TV income likewise then i think it would be a great boost. Only trouble is if we have to have the pitiful, shameful and farcical 'pick and choose' fixture set up we have now.

 

A full home and away schedule would mean just over 20 home meetings a year. Now some tracks who in recent years pulled out of the KO Cup etc because they can only afford to run a skeletal fixture list will have to hope that 22 meaningful matches without seeing the same opponent more than once will bring the fans in to cover the few extra meetings they'd have to run. At the end of the day you sign up to compete in the sport and the full league programme or you don't.

[Grand Central]

I had opted out from speedway for over a decade when the last merger occurred so not sure what caused it to fail. I think i remember reading something since about self-interest in rider reallocation or something? However i so long for the leagues to be united as one - in a non-geographical divide.

 

The current handful of same old, same old teams on Sky each week must be a little puzzling and tiresome for general sports viewers, even speedway fans. So long as rider resources are shared fairly and TV income likewise then i think it would be a great boost. Only trouble is if we have to have the pitiful, shameful and farcical 'pick and choose' fixture set up we have now.

 

A full home and away schedule would mean just over 20 home meetings a year. Now some tracks who in recent years pulled out of the KO Cup etc because they can only afford to run a skeletal fixture list will have to hope that 22 meaningful matches without seeing the same opponent more than once will bring the fans in to cover the few extra meetings they'd have to run. At the end of the day you sign up to compete in the sport and the full league programme or you don't.

 

I think you are both right and so, so wrong all at the same time.

 

I thought that 1995-1996 was a brilliant time for watching Speedway, for all the reasons you say. And more.

But truthfully it did not work at all.

Trying to amalgamate so many different 'wants' of promotions, riders etc etc under the one umbrella was completely impossible.

 

And I bet it will prove to be again. Even with some Sky dosh (hopefully) to paper over the cracks.

I am genuinely sorry to say.

 

 

 

[luluthetiger]

The Premier clubs will have nothing to do with the Elite League if they know what's good for them,if it was nearly financial suicide in 1995 it may well be even worse now

 

Go back further.

 

Nearly sixty years ago, the top league ran aground, and incorporated the lower division into 'one big league'. It didn't work, and the sport had to be saved by the arrival of a new lower league in 1960.

 

In 1963, the top league was in disarray and tried to 'promote' Wolverhampton against their will -- result was a year of rebellion and total divorce of the two divisions, ending with the virtual capitulation of the top league.

 

In 1990 the top league was in trouble (again) and totally conned the lower division into surrendering five clubs to prop it up.

 

In 1995 the top league was wobbling once more and forced lower-league clubs into that financially-cripping 'one big league".

 

Three years ago the Elite League was in a panic, and bribed Lynn and Birmingham to move out of the PL to prop it up. That's worked, hasn't it? Or maybe not.

 

We must await the next six months with interest.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I had opted out from speedway for over a decade when the last merger occurred so not sure what caused it to fail. I think i remember reading something since about self-interest in rider reallocation or something? However i so long for the leagues to be united as one - in a non-geographical divide.

 

Not really. Although I enjoyed the 'one big league' in 95-96, it was doomed failure as it raised the costs of the former NL/BL2 teams too much. The simple fact was that even if the top riders had been more evenly distributed around, some of the teams in the league simply couldn't have afforded them.

 

The cracks were already starting to show when teams started drop out, and moves were made to re-create the old NL. It's clear that a two division structure at the very least is needed to accommodate the different economics of different tracks.

[Guest]

 

It shouldn't be hard to work something out. Tais wnats to ride British League but he's too good, so give him the challenge of starting form 15 metres. The same could be done for any other EL rider with an average over 7.2. That way rider either ride on their PL average or they can ride on their EL average from 15 metres. So you could have Kennett on 10.5 from the tapes or 6.5 from 15 metres. Any rider with a fro the gate average of over 8 could be give the choice of starting 15 metres back on a reduced average. It also means that when Craig Cook is an 11 point man, rather than Edinburgh having to send him off to the EL, he can just ride for 15 metres for them on a 7 point average.

 

 

What a fiasco this idea was when something similar was tried in the 1960s.

[The White Knight]

Oh for the days of the British Leagues One and Two. :approve:

 

Happy days. :approve:

[spanner47]

Wouldn't argue with that. Showing Scunthorpe and Somerset all the time is akin to gping to Lynn every week. Why not show Ipswich, Glasgow and Rye House? 3 tracks that get a slating

Delete Ipswich and replace with Leicester. Ipswich spent a lot of money on reshaping the track, and us Ippo fans are seeing decent speedway again, after years of dross. Reading and hearing reports from Coventry, I cant see sky going there in the near future, or back to Poole until they get a trackman that knows what he's doing. But I really hope that sky pull out, at the start it was going to be great for speedway, but lets face it, fans stay at home to watch it on the telly, and it hasn't done that much for the sport. And as with every sport that sky get involved with, for every £1,000 that comes in, the riders/players want £1,200 of it.

[SCB]

Delete Ipswich and replace with Leicester. Ipswich spent a lot of money on reshaping the track, and us Ippo fans are seeing decent speedway again, after years of dross.

Fair point. Last time I went to Ipswich the track was much improved. Luckily, I think most people got the point I was making.

[Gearhead]

AGREE with most of your last sentence flagrag although not sure Sky do themselves any favours with their choice of co-commentator at Premier League meetings, plus of course some woeful pit interviews. Just a personal view of course...

I quite agree that the pit interviews,I actually believe that whole area is poor,as for a choice of co-commentator,I thought Rosco was ok recently,far better than Tatum's usual drivel,maybe they should keep trying new faces,or give Norris another call?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Gearhead

[freddyfivetoes]

Interesting topic, with better-stated viewpoints than usual.

 

Is this what the BSF is supposed to be like?

 

While I forsee some form of amalgalgamation, I am sure there will be a greater degree of caution than in the past, and at least half the current PL clubs will opt to stay with, or drop into, an extended NL.

 

Certainly those aware of what happened to the "promoted" clubs in both 1990/91 and again in 1995/96 will be supping with a very long spoon when they sit down to talk about any form of reorganisation.

[ch958]

I think I read that Tai will be 'going home' to Australia when he finishes riding....

But that shouldn't be a bar...British and Colonial riders only in new league please..and only those who sign up to all UK fixtures. Applying that rule means we will be left with what we are left with; but no British promoters paying for flights, and no machines to maintain in other countries should immediately bring the cost of our admission down a quid or two..

If Scotty wants to ride in continental meets then he will have to sit out the UK.

The sooner we get riders having home meetings EVERY week from april-september in the UK the better...guarantee them 60 meetings a year and hopefully the choice for some will be easier..

It's a vicious circle at the moment..less meets because of rider availability means it's more likely they will need foreign leagues...Address point 1 and bingo point 2 disappears.

If any promoter thinks they can run 14 meetings a season then i'm sorry they are not guaranteeing british based riders a chance to make a living..so there should be no place in the short term for those tracks (except at NL level). If and when the upturn comes then they will be welcome back on the above terms. NO FULL SEASON, NO ENTRY!

 

 

if i wasn't at work i'd be standing up and applauding this post

absolutely bang on the nail

 

PROBLEM not so much his wages but his ability... easy pickings in a combined league

 

true but chances are he wouldn't ride for the money on offer so no problem

 

Let's hope so. :approve:

 

I hope so too TWK but at PL levels not EL - why should the PL (a relatively succesful league) bust itself

[The White Knight]

if i wasn't at work i'd be standing up and applauding this post

absolutely bang on the nail

 

 

 

true but chances are he wouldn't ride for the money on offer so no problem

 

 

 

I hope so too TWK but at PL levels not EL - why should the PL (a relatively succesful league) bust itself

 

Precisely ch958.

[ciderman]

After tonight's exciting (never thought I'd live to say that again about a domestic speedway match) Somerset-Edinburgh set-to, surely SKY should be giving more money for PL than for the EL dross they buy.

 

Tonight proved what I've been saying for ages, speedway is still exciting... but it's got to have men willing to want to race and not just ride. Perhaps PL boys aren't tired racing around the globe for various tams in various countries and have a freshness and hunger to race.

 

My belief in the sport has been woken up.

 

Thanks Somerset and Ediburgh. Let's see more lower league(s) activity and less of the so-called star riders.

Absolutely correct in my opinion, the top riders have far to much at stake financially to give 100% effort in the EL, I can't comment on their desire to race in league meetings abroad because I haven't seen it.

How many times do we see them just sitting in position (Ulamek immediately springs to mind) and following each other round, it's just another pay cheque to the majority of them, why risk injury and race in a league meeting, certainly in the EL they are almost certainly guaranteed 2 points because of the diluted team strengths. It's had a negative effect on the sport because the racing is pretty tame. Same riders in a GP round are prepared to knock lumps out of each other and race,thats certainly missing in League meetings.

I think they only have themselves to blame should SKY decide to spread their wings to both leagues.

PL racing has been more exciting because the guys are riding for their income, no huge wages to fall back on from Poland.

People watch the sport for the racing not to see big names half a lap in front and the others following each other round.

Let's face it take out the top seven averaged riders in the EL and the rest are PL heatleaders so the product for SKY wouldn't be much different than they have now.

In fact it may play into there hands because Tatum & Pearson would not have to mention the GP's now that SKY aren't showing them.

It's been interesting listening to commentary that the GP's are rarely mentioned now.

I would not like to lose TV matches because of the credibility it gives to the sport, should it be lost next year then I very much doubt it would ever return and that would be a major nail in the coffin.

[ch958]

"Let's face it take out the top seven averaged riders in the EL and the rest are PL heatleaders so the product for SKY wouldn't be much different than they have now."

 

i made this point in a post about the kings lynn match the other day and got slaughtered. But its true - when a PL rider can pull off an 18 pt max in the EL you know the leagues could merge quite easily - i suggested if you lost 5 of the riders at that meeting it was a pl fixture

[manchesterpaul]

How many times do we see them just sitting in position (Ulamek immediately springs to mind) and following each other round, it's just another pay cheque to the majority of them, why risk injury and race in a league meeting, certainly in the EL they are almost certainly guaranteed 2 points because of the diluted team strengths. It's had a negative effect on the sport because the racing is pretty tame. Same riders in a GP round are prepared to knock lumps out of each other and race,thats certainly missing in League meetings.

 

That's a very good and in several, or indeed many?, cases accurate observation.

[jimmy jimmy]

SGP ... hearing much the same as you.

 

Lots of merger talk regarding the EL and PL doing the rounds at Tuesday's General Council, especially if it helps to secure a TV deal. One thing is for sure... EL cannot carry on as it is, most if not all tracks haemorrhaging financially.

 

Talk is that the big earners and highest averaged riders will have to be sacrificed but where would that leave someone like Tai Woffinden. Would he be effectively barred from racing in his own country?

 

Exactly, the problem is that Woffinden, Harris and Nicholls won't get a ride, replaced by yet more cheap sub standard European riders.

 

"Let's face it take out the top seven averaged riders in the EL and the rest are PL heatleaders so the product for SKY wouldn't be much different than they have now."

 

i made this point in a post about the kings lynn match the other day and got slaughtered. But its true - when a PL rider can pull off an 18 pt max in the EL you know the leagues could merge quite easily - i suggested if you lost 5 of the riders at that meeting it was a pl fixture

 

You are right, but there aren't enough riders to go around to have one big league, you can probably fill about 12 teams with riders who won't have other commitments elsewhere, and the quality won't be great. And as soon as any are good, the European leagues will snap them up and then you won't see them again.

[Mike.Butler]

....if british riders can get contracts abroad and are lost to the uk leagues then so be it.. It's no good pretending we have an elite league if we cannot afford the top riders. What we have in the UK is a a quantity of tracks that beats any other country. I don't see why that would change..new top riders will emerge albeit paid what we can afford commensurate with gate receipts they generate

Look at the amount of south american footballers plying their trade in Europe. It doesnt mean there aren't domestic league in brazil and argentina.....

[jimmy jimmy]

There are a lot more footballers than speedway riders. If you want to keep all tracks going, then you need over 200 riders who will ride in the UK. Many EL teams will be starting from a very small squad as most of their existing riders wouldn't be back.

Edited June 16, 2013 by jimmy jimmy