Air Fences

[neb]

lets presume sky are with us next year would it not be possible for the sky money (i dont know how much clubs get) to be used to buy all e lge clubs new air fences and the old one's to be donated to prem lge clubs or if not maybe an air fence sharing scheme could be setup? i realize this will be hassle but its got to be better than losing clubs because they cant afford to buy one.

[bigcatdiary]

All the tracks provide a bond to the BSPA when starting so why not use that, the clubs could then repay it back over the next few years.

[Mr Ore]

Have been watching racing at Rye since 76 and if there is a better, safer fence in speedway then i have yet to see it.

 

Ok so Ipswich have an airfence but that didnt help Mark Loram much as he missed it. False sense of security as other more serious dangers are forgotten as airfences are the flavour of

 

are they the best judges. How many complain about the closeness of the lamp-standards at places like Somerset, or the solid concrete wall at Kings Lynn that would be hit if they silde under the fence or the metal stock car fence at Kings Lynn or the Electrical control boxes a couple of feet from the airfence at Mildenhall. Airfences are an easy bandwagon to jump on and forget things that are potentially far more dangerous

 

I bow to your superior knowledge regarding Rye with my 2-3 visits a year being insignificant alongside. However Ii can easily recall injuries to riders hitting the fence during my few visits so am sure you would have at least seen those too. The portly Yorkshire version of Scott Smith's injury is still in the memory. If you want an easily proved recent case why not ask Jason Garrity if he would have rather hit an air fence at Sheffield or almost lose his eye with the extremely safe mesh alternative?I know that riders are not he best judges of their own safety but why not humour him and ask?

 

My point about the Foxhall fence was that it was alleged there had been no serious injuries there. I mentioned Brett Saunders as one example that the claim was rubbish. There are too many sweeping comments made which are crap and you don't or shouldn't mess with rider safety.

 

Having seen my favourite rider die a few feet in front of me owing to the safety fence you may appreciate why I find the blaze attitude of many posters on here so offensive. Again I have heard loads of complaints about other dangers around the tracks, which seem to have passed you by, and agree that they have been given a deaf ear on occasions. It doesn't mean that you do nothing: you deal with it and for £20 a fan most issues could be sorted. The fact that two things need sorting out doesn't mean you ignore both. Sadly a riders life to Briish fans is not worth such a small contribution.

 

Finally I think you should have put a smiley face with your joke as I am sure the humour went above people's heads. To say you shouldn't have an air safety fence as it would obstruct the view of those on the bends at Rye is comedy genius. Who in their right mind would prefer a rider to be injured than have some minor inconvenience to their sightline?

 

 

 

[FTM]

Regarding FTM's point above and deflating airfences, at Sheffield would have to be removed fully when it stages Stock Cars.

Thx Buxton Tiger didn,t know they ran Stock Cars so that would be reason enough for the H&S to try and insist each re-erection of the bags would class as a new build smacks of extra money in to their coffers as I suppose they don,t do it for nowt.

Najjer I think B,T,s answered both our queries

[The Voice Of Reason]

I'm quite certain that the local Council's Health & Safety Executive has no jurisdiction whatsoever relating to a speedway track's perimeter (fencing), the track nor the infield - unless, of course, the track is actually owned by that respective council. The aforementioned are strictly under the ownership of a club's promotion; who must subsequently comply with SCB Regulations regarding track and safety standards. Other aspects of the stadium, etc. certainly are under the local and county council's/emergency services jurisdiction - but the perimeter fence, track and infield are not. The HSE have absolutely no authority over these aspects whatsoever.

 

A track homologation certificate is issued by the SCB, and is valid for three seasons. This covers all aspects of the track, it's size, construction, type of fence, neutral zones, lighting and infield zones. Any deviation from the certificate must be bought to the attention of the SCB immediately who, at their discretion, may order a re-inspection.

 

Moreover, it is general practice for a referee to inspect the safety fence prior to the meeting, and to include the details of his inspection within the meeting's summary report. Any requirement for remedial actions is reported to the SCB for them to pursue. Rest assured, if failures are noted, these are fed back via Rugby and subsequently re-inspected before the following home meeting, by the referee, to ensure that repairs, modifications, etc. have been duly actioned.

 

On the matter of air fences. I doubt whether anyone can disagree that there are substantial benefits regarding their contribution towards safety within the sport. However, they are extremely costly and, the point that I haven't seen mentioned to date within this thread, is that air bags have a limited shelf life. They are certainly NOT a one-off purchase.

 

In my experience, one of the major problems appears to be burn holes appearing underneath when a bike gets trapped - and the silencer/engine burns(s) into it. They are designed to be fire-retardant but the material certainly melts under such extreme heat. Repairs are possible; initially with cable ties and thereafter, more permanently with new vinyl being patched in.

 

Another problem, on the older type airbag design, is that the heavy duty zips become worn and eventually break. The Velcro strips (that hold advertising hoardings) also become worn and need to be replaced. To this end, even during the life of an airbag, there are constant, ongoing repairs. These aren't quick fixes; so another point is that a track needs to have a significant number of spare bags as replacements - temporary or otherwise.

 

Another cost is the generators; coupled with the fuel to keep these working throughout a meeting. However, these costs pale into insignificance when you consider the next one - namely, the purchase of at least one flatbed lorry or truck! Think about it folks; at tracks where the airbags have to be taken down and stored (because of other things such as stock cars, etc.) you also have to find significant, and secure, storage space for the vehicle/bags.

 

In other words, purchase of the airbags is just one aspect to consider when considering overall costs!

 

Just to add that unzipping airbags after a meeting, particularly when they are caked with wet shale is an absolute bloody nightmare. They also weigh a ton - and generally take at least four blokes to fold and lift onto the back of a trailer. I can say through experience that, especially when it's peeing down with rain, it's not particularly a lot of fun.

Edited June 17, 2013 by The Voice Of Reason

[Lord Lucan]

Heard over the PA tonight that a series of fund raising events are to take place in order to contribute to an air/foam fence around DP, going to take an awful lot of em to cover our boundary??

[Shadders]

Heard over the PA tonight that a series of fund raising events are to take place in order to contribute to an air/foam fence around DP, going to take an awful lot of em to cover our boundary??

They don't have to cover the entire fence, just the bends

[xmas]

This is the simple answer to this problem

 

All the tracks provide a bond to the BSPA when starting so why not use that, the clubs could then repay it back over the next few years.

[CardinalSin]

My point about the Foxhall fence was that it was alleged there had been no serious injuries there. I mentioned Brett Saunders as one example that the claim was rubbish. There are too many sweeping comments made which are crap and you don't or shouldn't mess with rider safety.

Alleged by who? I can recall John Louis stating that Foxhall had an excellent safety record over the years with the collapsable fence, but I can't recall him, or anyone at Ipswich ever saying that NO serious injury had EVER occurred at Foxhall?

[Trees]

All fans, riders and officials should donate to their tracks fund!!!! Put your hands in your pockets for a very important cause!!!!

 

As a Lynn fan I have sent money to the Newcastle fund ............ lots of small amounts adds up to loads of money

 

£18,000 for the Buxton fence so that's 900 people donating £20 ............ not impossible!!

Edited June 17, 2013 by Trees

[Lord Lucan]

They don't have to cover the entire fence, just the bends

 

Thank's for that Shadders, was hoping someone would say that!! Still hurt though if your unlucky enough to hit the bit that aint covered?

[Shadders]

Thank's for that Shadders, was hoping someone would say that!! Still hurt though if your unlucky enough to hit the bit that aint covered?

Luke Bowen smashed into the home straight fence at Somerset last year after picking up drive coming out of the fourth turn, breaking a thigh bone. Pretty sure an air fence wouldn't have covered that part of the track as he ended up lying close to the start/finish line

Edited June 17, 2013 by Shadders

[Mr Ore]

Alleged by who? I can recall John Louis stating that Foxhall had an excellent safety record over the years with the collapsable fence, but I can't recall him, or anyone at Ipswich ever saying that NO serious injury had EVER occurred at Foxhall?

Sadly I can't go through years of reports as I have a full time job which takes up all my working week. I assure you however (and I do have links with Ipswich) that this came about when they were talking of making them compulsory in the Elite League. That will be the time to check your newspaper cuttings. I said to my Ipswich connections then, what about Brett?

As I was trying to imply with my comments regarding witnessing a death in front of me, I don't believe the issue should be finding excuses to prove that other things are equally or more dangerous to discourage actions from being taken. You may want to watch Steve Coogan's excellent swimming pool sketch on "The Day Today" where he lists the years he has been the attendant at the pool with no drownings. Sheer comedy genius but he picked that up from life observations and having heard similar comments it is so British speedway in mentality. My feeling is that one tragedy is 2 too many so do whatever you can to minimise risks. Hearing what Shadders said regarding Luke Bowen it seems that was a similar spot to where Gary Stead received his injury. Whilst an air fence on the bends would not have helped either I don't believe that we should wait for a similar incident on an uncovered bend (obviously not Somerset) before taking action.

With my Ipswich links I often have a cheeky dig at all things Norfolk yet am pleased to see young Trees from that county adopt the same stance as me in saying fans can assist in riders’ safety for peanuts. For all the moaning that the fans do on here it seems that we could group and resolve this safety issue by pulling in the same direction for once. I seriously hope that you don't witness what I have before thinking "We should have taken some steps already to stop that. "

[cyclone]

I'm quite certain that the local Council's Health & Safety Executive has no jurisdiction whatsoever relating to a speedway track's perimeter (fencing), the track nor the infield - unless, of course, the track is actually owned by that respective council. The aforementioned are strictly under the ownership of a club's promotion; who must subsequently comply with SCB Regulations regarding track and safety standards. Other aspects of the stadium, etc. certainly are under the local and county council's/emergency services jurisdiction - but the perimeter fence, track and infield are not. The HSE have absolutely no authority over these aspects whatsoever.

 

A track homologation certificate is issued by the SCB, and is valid for three seasons. This covers all aspects of the track, it's size, construction, type of fence, neutral zones, lighting and infield zones. Any deviation from the certificate must be bought to the attention of the SCB immediately who, at their discretion, may order a re-inspection.

 

Moreover, it is general practice for a referee to inspect the safety fence prior to the meeting, and to include the details of his inspection within the meeting's summary report. Any requirement for remedial actions is reported to the SCB for them to pursue. Rest assured, if failures are noted, these are fed back via Rugby and subsequently re-inspected before the following home meeting, by the referee, to ensure that repairs, modifications, etc. have been duly actioned.

 

On the matter of air fences. I doubt whether anyone can disagree that there are substantial benefits regarding their contribution towards safety within the sport. However, they are extremely costly and, the point that I haven't seen mentioned to date within this thread, is that air bags have a limited shelf life. They are certainly NOT a one-off purchase.

 

In my experience, one of the major problems appears to be burn holes appearing underneath when a bike gets trapped - and the silencer/engine burns(s) into it. They are designed to be fire-retardant but the material certainly melts under such extreme heat. Repairs are possible; initially with cable ties and thereafter, more permanently with new vinyl being patched in.

 

Another problem, on the older type airbag design, is that the heavy duty zips become worn and eventually break. The Velcro strips (that hold advertising hoardings) also become worn and need to be replaced. To this end, even during the life of an airbag, there are constant, ongoing repairs. These aren't quick fixes; so another point is that a track needs to have a significant number of spare bags as replacements - temporary or otherwise.

 

Another cost is the generators; coupled with the fuel to keep these working throughout a meeting. However, these costs pale into insignificance when you consider the next one - namely, the purchase of at least one flatbed lorry or truck! Think about it folks; at tracks where the airbags have to be taken down and stored (because of other things such as stock cars, etc.) you also have to find significant, and secure, storage space for the vehicle/bags.

 

In other words, purchase of the airbags is just one aspect to consider when considering overall costs!

 

Just to add that unzipping airbags after a meeting, particularly when they are caked with wet shale is an absolute bloody nightmare. They also weigh a ton - and generally take at least four blokes to fold and lift onto the back of a trailer. I can say through experience that, especially when it's peeing down with rain, it's not particularly a lot of fun.

 

Thanks for a comprehensive insight re air fences.

 

Would the same problems be encountered with the alternative of foam fences or do they have different operational problems ?

[freddyfivetoes]

Thanks for a comprehensive insight re air fences.

 

Would the same problems be encountered with the alternative of foam fences or do they have different operational problems ?

 

Foam-fences are almost certainly much-more-durable than airbags. King's Lynn remove and replace theirs for each meeting, so have the problem of lifting and storing -- although the squabs are easier, I understand, to lift and stack than deflated, shale-covered airbags.

 

Berwick are more fortunate, their foamfence is permanently installed, and stands there all year long. It was even there in mid-winter, when the football was broadcast on ESPN. I understand it gets power-washed each week, but require no other attention.

 

Once installed, the foam jobs are by far the better option, not needing any generators, pre-meeting inflation, delays when punctured by a bike, etc, etc.

[Najjer]

Luke Bowen smashed into the home straight fence at Somerset last year after picking up drive coming out of the fourth turn, breaking a thigh bone. Pretty sure an air fence wouldn't have covered that part of the track as he ended up lying close to the start/finish line

 

One of the worst crashes I've ever seen - do you remember when Gathercole and Frampton had a collision, and Frampton ended up near enough on the clubhouse patio after going up and over the fence? He got up, walked back to the pits and went on to complete a five ride maximum!

[Shadders]

One of the worst crashes I've ever seen - do you remember when Gathercole and Frampton had a collision, and Frampton ended up near enough on the clubhouse patio after going up and over the fence? He got up, walked back to the pits and went on to complete a five ride maximum!

I wasn't there, but probably updating that night as I can picture it in my minds eye. It's remarkable how the most innocuous fall can end in a serious injury, but a crash like that and the rider walks away relatively unscathed. I witnessed a horrific incident at Rye House with Tommy Allen hurtling at full speed through the 4th bend fence, just missing a floodlight pylon, ending up about 30ft from the track. We all feared the worst, but he got up almost immediately and walked along the dog track back to the pits.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Shadders

[oldtimer]

Foam-fences are almost certainly much-more-durable than airbags. King's Lynn remove and replace theirs for each meeting, so have the problem of lifting and storing -- although the squabs are easier, I understand, to lift and stack than deflated, shale-covered airbags.

 

Berwick are more fortunate, their foamfence is permanently installed, and stands there all year long. It was even there in mid-winter, when the football was broadcast on ESPN. I understand it gets power-washed each week, but require no other attention.

 

Once installed, the foam jobs are by far the better option, not needing any generators, pre-meeting inflation, delays when punctured by a bike, etc, etc.

 

It is my understanding that the foam fence is a lot more expensive than the air bag.

[Boobs]

This topic, which has raised interesting information and provoked good discussion, is straying away from the fact.

 

No matter how amazing chain or board fences might sometimes be, only "soft" barriers will be permitted at speedway in 2014.

 

Will clubs cope?

[Fromafar]

This topic, which has raised interesting information and provoked good discussion, is straying away from the fact.

 

No matter how amazing chain or board fences might sometimes be, only "soft" barriers will be permitted at speedway in 2014.

 

Will clubs cope?

The extra expense will certainly not help the struggling clubs,but who knows a winter of discontent awaits I fear.If clubs like Edinburgh were claiming £30,000 losses last season from what I gather this will be another loss making season and other Clubs as well.