Wild Cards 2014

[Dave the Mic]

What makes Lindgren any more deserving of a wild card? Didnt do qualifiers and failed to make top 8.

 

Hes a very average rider when you take away the GB league, MJJ a fresh up coming talent, has won gps before, won world under 21 titles, been part of world cup winning teams, he should of been given a wild card instead of yet another for Lindgren.

I don't remember saying he was more deserving of anything, just not deserving of the slating he was getting. I'm no fan of Lindgren, particularly, but he has won a GP as recently as last year, reached several finals and been on the rostrum and has raced and scored double figures in World Cup Finals for what has been a pretty strong Sweden team. Henhas also performed consistently in league racing for a number of years and not just in the UK, as you suggest. In 2013, his Swedish league average was almost identical to MJJ's. In addition, GP finishes of 10th, 9th, 11th, 8th, 9th, 11th in the last 6 years, hardly make him an average rider.

Exactly, but that's hardly a good statement in defence of Harris is it? Apart from his amazing win at Cardiff he's shown over many years that he does'nt really have what it takes compared to the rest of the GP riders for whatever reason. His time has passed - he's had his moment.

 

I've nothing against him - he's certainly got what it takes to be a speedway rider and can be a pleasure to watch - just not in GPs.

I'm not defending him as a GP rider, his time in that regard may well have passed. The points I made were simply against those that were slating him so mercilessly. I suspect a good proportion of those doing so were also those cheering him at Cardiff that day and when he races for England. The rights and wrongs of him being offered a place at Poole can be argued as much as you like, but he cannot be criticised for accepting the place he was offered. It isn't his fault he was asked to race and given the chance, why would he decline?

Edited October 29, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[The White Knight]

I don't remember saying he was more deserving of anything, just not deserving of the slating he was getting. I'm no fan of Lindgren, particularly, but he has won a GP as recently as last year, reached several finals and been on the rostrum and has raced and scored double figures in World Cup Finals for what has been a pretty strong Sweden team. Henhas also performed consistently in league racing for a number of years and not just in the UK, as you suggest. In 2013, his Swedish league average was almost identical to MJJ's. In addition, GP finishes of 10th, 9th, 11th, 8th, 9th, 11th in the last 6 years, hardly make him an average rider.

 

I'm not defending him as a GP rider, his time in that regard may well have passed. The points I made were simply against those that were slating him so mercilessly. I suspect a good proportion of those doing so were also those cheering him at Cardiff that day and when he races for England. The rights and wrongs of him being offered a place at Poole can be argued as much as you like, but he cannot be criticised for accepting the place he was offered. It isn't his fault he was asked to race and given the chance, why would he decline?

 

Agreed. That's a much better record than some others I could think of.

[waiheke1]

 

Agreed. That's a much better record than some others I could think of.

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

[Star Fever]

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

 

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

Edited October 29, 2013 by Star Fever

[PHILIPRISING]

 

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

[BWitcher]

Don't know what the fuss is about.

 

Lindgren has the best moustache so he should be in. End of.

[racers and royals]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

Unfortunately although you very kindly offered to find out what exactly happened within these "procedures " we have never heard what actually happened when Zagar pulled out. Certainly in order Pavlic,Buczkowski and Dilger (through their federation)should have been asked.As Buczkowski was in the country riding for Peterborough the night before i can`t understand if asked why he would turn it down ?

[The White Knight]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

 

 

An honest question Philip.

 

Do you think that the involvement of BSI in Speedway has been of any REAL value to Speedway in this Country. If the answer is - yes - then how?

[PHILIPRISING]

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

 

An honest question Philip.

 

Do you think that the involvement of BSI in Speedway has been of any REAL value to Speedway in this Country. If the answer is - yes - then how?

 

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

[The White Knight]

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

 

Oddly enough - Cardiff was the ONLY reason that was apparent to me.

[PHILIPRISING]

 

Oddly enough - Cardiff was the ONLY reason that was apparent to me.

 

BUT I didn't say only ...

[Humphrey Appleby]

YES ... many reasons but Cardiff alone is sufficient in my view.

Given how the sport in Britain has continued to decline during the years of the SGP, then I think it's actual value to the sport is very questionable. Yes, it provides the opportunity of an annual day out for the fans in this country, and there's possibly an argument that the sport would have declined even more without it. What I don't think can be claimed though, is that it's actually increased interest in the sport in any manner that helps the survival of local tracks.

 

In fairness, the SGP did appear to tap into a latent support which was reflected in reasonable viewing figures for a while, but even those seem to have greatly declined to the extent that Sky don't see speedway as a 'must have' sport anymore. I doubt that resulted in any flow of money to anywhere other than BSI and FIM though.

[The White Knight]

 

BUT I didn't say only ...

 

No you did not - I agree.

 

But you didn't give ANY other examples either.

 

Did you?

 

I would ideally see a List of the benefits that you see from their involvement. Perhaps you could expand your answer a little? You did say many.

[phillipsr]

I had given up on speedway a while back and only after watching a GP did i come back bringing the wife with me. So thats two people that British speedway gained because of the GPs. Not much i realise but every little helps and i imagine im not alone

[JT]

 

THE CCP Secretary at the FIM informed the respective federations when one of their riders was eligible to ride in the GP Challenge and it was then incumbent upon that federation to contact said rider. As and when the FIM were informed that said rider wasn't able or willing to compete the next federation in line was contacted and so on. This was done.

 

There obviously comes a stage when a line in the sand has to be drawn to ensure that the meeting has a full compliment and then the host federation (in this case the ACU) is asked to nominate a rider or riders.

 

 

You've got to admit it's all very suspicious though, Phil. Or at the very least a massive coincidence. After finally giving up on Harris pre-season, the following happens;

• Whilst Harris was a full time rider (largely through Wild Card picks) the Cardiff Wild Card has gone to the highest placed non GP rider in the British Final for the past few seasons. This system seemed to work well and gave riders in the British Final extra impetus to do well.

   

  Low and behold, as soon as Harris lost his full time Grand Prix place, and heaven forbid, risked not qualifying for Cardiff, somebody decided to gift him his place, apparently without consulting the rest of British Speedway.

• After a truly dismal qualifying performance in the first round of the Grand Prix Qualifiers, Bomber bombs out of the qualifiers for another year. Or so we thought…

• Fast forward to the Grand Prix Challenge and after some dismay from riders and fans at the Cardiff WIld Card decision, Danny King is given the Poole Wild Card. Great, we thought, finally a new rider being given a chance.

   

  Then in the build up to the meeting, Zagar, Harris' former Trelawny team mate and one of the GP Challenge favourites (and a rider who was just inside the top 8 of the Grand Prix table at the time, with no guarantee of qualifying), apparently can't decide whether he wants to do the Poole meeting or not and the following questions arise;

1. Why doesn't Zagar, after going through the effort and expense of the qualifying rounds all over Europe, just do one more meeting at a track he knows quite well?
2. Why doesn't Zagar, when his chance of qualifying by right in the Grand Prix series is still uncertain, try to GUARANTEE his place in the 2014 series by riding just five rides at Poole?
3. If Zagar felt guilty about taking the place of another rider, (although I can't remember compassion and Zagar ever going hand in hand before AND we are talking about an individual format, where none of Zagar's countrymen are next in line) why did he leave it right to the last minute to make his decision? If he wanted a deserving rider to take a place, i.e Pavlic, Buczkowski or Dilger, why not give them a plenty of time to get there?

• What happens next? Zagar, pulls out right at the very last minute, and apparently the only rider who could be bothered, or was able to reach Poole in time, was the rider about 37th in line, you guessed it, Chris Harris. This despite Buczkowski (2nd in line) being in the country the previous night…

• Phil Rising quite rightly points out that FIM organise the Grand Prix Challenge, not BSI. BUT. and it's a big BUT, Harris' inclusion in this meeting rested on Zagar's decision, a rider who BSI could 'unofficially' guarantee a place the following season anyway, irrespective of his finishing place. You see, given points 1, 2 and 3, I can't think of a single logical reason why Zagar would pull out at the very last minute, unless he was told his place was safe for 2014, whether he finished in the top 8 or not.

Of course, I'm probably reading far too much into this, and Harris (who has also received five series wild cards) has never received preferential treatment. All of the above is purely coincidental…

 

JT.

Edited October 30, 2013 by JT

[PHILIPRISING]

BUT Harris wasn't the first or only British rider to be asked to attend Poole initially as a meeting reserve, which is how he eventually got into the meeting. Had Craig Cook for example said yes he probably would have got in before Harris. It was only because Harris was prepared to go and take his chance should it arise that he is where he is today.

 

BSI had no part in this. Why would they? I am sure they would rather have Zagar in the GP than Harris anyway so why, as you seem to be suggesting, would they push Zagar into withdrawing. And Zagar would have had no idea at the time of his withdrawal who would take his place. Other riders via their federations could have come in but for various reasons (as I'm told by the FIM) declined.

[bigcatdiary]

I can remember riders in the past pulling out of FIM meetings in the past and being taken to task for it, surely if riders enter a said competition they are duly bound to compete in them as long as they accrue the necessary points for onward qualification.

 

Riders withdrawing for any reason other than injury or illness (MC required) should result in a penalty which would pretty much stop all this nonsense.

 

Harris hasn't done anything wrong other than do what he loves, riding any meeting he can, he even guested for the Panthers the night before the GP challenge when our great no 1 and team captain Kenneth Bjerre clearly couldn't be bothered.

[Star Fever]

 

 

YOU contradict yourself ... Andy Smith was only it because he was a Brit although he earned his qualification?

 

I have stated here many times.... the GP Challenge is nothing to do with BSI. It was the FIM's various procedures that eventually saw Chris Harris ride at Poole and their rules which see him as first reserve.

 

No I didn't contradict myself - Smith managed to scrape thru via the challenge OR he was chosen as a wild card for GB representation - if my memory serves. However, If my memory is wrong that he wasn't picked as a wild card at least once - then I apologise. It still doesn't deflect from the point though - that Smith had poor GP campaigns, and that Harris could possibly emulate Smith's 'achievements'.

 

And whether Harris was picked by BSI or the FIM or the ACU or whoever is irrelevant to the point - which is that he should NOT have been in the meeting and DEFINITELY NOT in the meeting with a chance of qualification!! He had his chance in the earlier qualifier and blew it!

 

I suppose we must be grateful at least that he only managed to get enough points for reserve....

Edited November 1, 2013 by Star Fever

[PHILIPRISING]

JURICA Pavlic was knocked out of the qualifying rounds for the 2012 GP Challenge and was then afforded the wild card for the Challenge on his home track in Croatia ...

blame the system by all means but why be so hard on Harris?

 

If my memory serves me correct Andy Smith was never given a wild card slot... he was around at the time when those in the GP who didn't automatically qualify for the following year went into the Challenge.

[Dave the Mic]

apart from Harris, who can you name that has consistently been in the series with a worse record?

surely that is the record of a rider who is "average" or actually "slightly below average" at gp level?

An average finishing position of between 9th and 10th over that period is not the performance of an average rider at world level.

Andy Smith.

 

Another Brit who was only in it because he was a Brit (although he did actually EARN his qualification for many years.. unlike some).

 

[and yes I realise its not Harris' fault that he's an official reserve - I'm just astounded that BSI deem him worthy/eligible when he'd failed to qualify for the meeting. I wonder if they'd have done the same if a track reserve (i.e Kyle Newman) had scored the same?!]

Andy Smith was never given a wild card. He either gained his place through the series or qualified through the challenge.

Harris hasn't done anything wrong other than do what he loves, riding any meeting he can, he even guested for the Panthers the night before the GP challenge when our great no 1 and team captain Kenneth Bjerre clearly couldn't be bothered.

Quite.

JURICA Pavlic was knocked out of the qualifying rounds for the 2012 GP Challenge and was then afforded the wild card for the Challenge on his home track in Croatia ...

blame the system by all means but why be so hard on Harris?

 

If my memory serves me correct Andy Smith was never given a wild card slot... he was around at the time when those in the GP who didn't automatically qualify for the following year went into the Challenge.

 

Correct Phil on both counts and thanks also for confirming what I had said previously, which was that 1) The GPC and qualification is run and sanctioned by the FIM and is nothing to do with BSI and 2) That the correct procedure for Harris' inclusion at Poole was followed.