Wild Cards 2014

[JT]

 

What a nasty horrible comment. I accept he is inconsistent but at times Harris did show he was capable of mixing it with the best.

It wasn't intended to be a nasty comment, I was simply stating that after this year, with serious injuries to some of the world's best riders, it would be nice if the reserves weren't required at all next season. I couldn't care less if Harris is 'capable of mixing it with the best', if all goes well in 2014, we won't have to test that theory, except at Cardiff where he is sure to receive another wild card.

 

JT.

[BluTiger]

It wasn't intended to be a nasty comment, I was simply stating that after this year, with serious injuries to some of the world's best riders, it would be nice if the reserves weren't required at all next season. I couldn't care less if Harris is 'capable of mixing it with the best', if all goes well in 2014, we won't have to test that theory, except at Cardiff where he is sure to receive another wild card.

 

JT.

Not sure about that. If Cook continues his improvement next year, he may be a good pick...

[Gavan]

Lets be fair the only 2 Brits capable of mixing it a bit at Cardiff as wild cards would be Harris or Cook.

 

Nicholls isnt good enough now.

 

And please no more talk of Kennett King Bridger Barker and the like!!

 

Let Middlo decide. He is Team GB boss and he is good at making the right choices. maybe he could pick that good young English rider at Poole......oh whats his name?...........hmmm

[A ORLOV]

Lets be fair the only 2 Brits capable of mixing it a bit at Cardiff as wild cards would be Harris or Cook.

 

Nicholls isnt good enough now.

 

And please no more talk of Kennett King Bridger Barker and the like!!

 

Let Middlo decide. He is Team GB boss and he is good at making the right choices. maybe he could pick that good young English rider at Poole......oh whats his name?...........hmmm

Tend to agree with your choice of Brits Gavan

[barrow boy]

I disagree with this since there is no point then in having 8 qualifiers and 4 wild cards. If they always gives two wild cards to nr 9 and 10

then why not just have top 10+Freddie Lindgren automatically qualified and one wild card? because that is how the system currently works.

 

Tony Olsson have also confirmed that Laguta was never asked.

 

 

Gollob used to be a top rider but as you say this year he looked quite uninterested for many GPs. So why wast a wild card on someone who can't be bothererd to "show up" for half of the rounds?

Yes I know that officially it is only the top 8 who stay in but most times the 9 & 10 usually get back in. Whether they should doesn't matter, what I said is a fact. I agree that they might just as well keep the top 10 and be done with it.

[Dave the Mic]

I am astounded at the vitriol poured over the riders on this thread, it's a disgrace to be honest. If any of you are brave enough to race the way these guys do, fill your boots and slag off their inclusion and criticise their ability.

 

I'd be happy to have 10% of the ability of these guys, who, by the way, risk their lives to entertain us each time they throw a leg over a bike.

 

Regarding the wild cards, feel free to extol the virtues of anyone else you care to name, including MJJ, Dudek, Jonasson, Laguta even, but a couple of decent performances on the world stage does not a GP rider make, ask Martin Vaculik. I rank none of them as my favourites, but Holder and Gollob pick themselves, AJ and Fred have been consistent performers on the world stage for some time and are worthy of their place in the series. Regarding the likes of MJJ and Jonasson, they had their chance to qualify, like others, and couldn't do so. That being so, how does it make them more deserving than the four picked? It doesn't.

 

Regarding Harris, why can't you get off his case? It's fair to say he hasn't been deserving of the nominations for wild cards he has had, but he hasn't bought them, he was offered them and accepted them. In his position, I suspect any of you would do the same. Likewise in the GP challenge, although in that case, many of the riders that were next in line from the semi finals supposedly declined a place to race, Harris was offered the place and took it. So what? He then finished ahead of many of the riders who have been put forward on this forum as deserving of a place in the GP, and matched Smolinski. Surely, if they can't finish ahead of Harris, supposedly so poor according to many on this forum, how can they possibly be included in the series.

 

You couldn't write it.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Dave the Mic

[Walshy1974]

Wakey wakey time for the minority of Muppets... Speedway needs to evolve, which unfortunately is not the case in British speedway at present. Riders come and go, Sky, EUROSPORT they'll come and go. The fans will stay, but what will entice us? New rules we argue about, New riders who we'll disagree over who's better, pretty much everything according to the posts on here..... Instead of arguing (sorry discussing with very different opinions) shouldn't' we all be looking at ways of making the sport we love evolve? If so.. let's bloody well do it.

[BluTiger]

I am astounded at the vitriol poured over the riders on this thread, it's a disgrace to be honest. If any of you are brave enough to race the way these guys do, fill your boots and slag off their inclusion and criticise their ability.

 

I'd be happy to have 10% of the ability of these guys, who, by the way, risk their lives to entertain us each time they throw a leg over a bike.

 

Regarding the wild cards, feel free to extol the virtues of anyone else you care to name, including MJJ, Dudek, Jonasson, Laguta even, but a couple of decent performances on the world stage does not a GP rider make, ask Martin Vaculik. I rank none of them as my favourites, but Holder and Gollob pick themselves, AJ and Fred have been consistent performers on the world stage for some time and are worthy of their place in the series. Regarding the likes of MJJ and Jonasson, they had their chance to qualify, like others, and couldn't do so. That being so, how does it make them more deserving than the four picked? It doesn't.

 

Regarding Harris, why can't you get off his case? It's fair to say he hasn't been deserving of the nominations for wild cards he has had, but he hasn't bought them, he was offered them and accepted them. In his position, I suspect any of you would do the same. Likewise in the GP challenge, although in that case, many of the riders that were next in line from the semi finals supposedly declined a place to race, Harris was offered the place and took it. So what? He then finished ahead of many of the riders who have been put forward on this forum as deserving of a place in the GP, and matched Smolinski. Surely, if they can't finish ahead of Harris, supposedly so poor according to many on this forum, how can they possibly be included in the series.

 

You couldn't write it.

Laguta, MJJ and Dudek are far more deserving than Lindgren, who rarely makes the top eight. Tai proved future World champions are likely to be the younger rising stars, not the older wildcard regulars...

[Dave the Mic]

How so? Laguna isn't prepared to do the qualifiers, MJJ couldn't beat the so called no hoper that is Chris Harris and Dudek didn't even compete. Tai was a completely different set of circumstances, having been in the series before and had come through some very testing times which slowed his progress. In the main, the champions have been the old guard in any case, with only Tai and Holder of the brigade winning titles, the likes of Hancock, Gollob, Pedersen and Crump having taken most of the titles in recent times. Tai has been the exception.

[iris123]

Of course it is unfair that Harris is the first reserve.More deserving candidates are out there and Harris is a serial failure who shouldn't have been anywhere near the meeting.

 

Quite possibly the spot should have gone to a German rider who should have been in the meeting instead of him.As a late replacement he cozuld have completed in the meeting basically illegaly,but his points shouldn't have counted.Sure i remember rider competing in meetings,but not being in the actual competition......

 

As it is if we look at the GP qualis we have

 

Harris (2 meetings) 4+10 which gives an average of 7

 

Batchelor (3 meetings) 12+3,9+2,9=10

 

Liglad (3) 12+3,11+3,7=10

 

Jonasson (3) 9,9,6=8

 

So all have a better average than Harris and all failed just the once.The thing is only Harris gets another chance after failing

[Ghostwalker]

I am astounded at the vitriol poured over the riders on this thread, it's a disgrace to be honest. If any of you are brave enough to race the way these guys do, fill your boots and slag off their inclusion and criticise their ability.

 

I'd be happy to have 10% of the ability of these guys, who, by the way, risk their lives to entertain us each time they throw a leg over a bike.

 

Regarding the wild cards, feel free to extol the virtues of anyone else you care to name, including MJJ, Dudek, Jonasson, Laguta even, but a couple of decent performances on the world stage does not a GP rider make, ask Martin Vaculik. I rank none of them as my favourites, but Holder and Gollob pick themselves, AJ and Fred have been consistent performers on the world stage for some time and are worthy of their place in the series. Regarding the likes of MJJ and Jonasson, they had their chance to qualify, like others, and couldn't do so. That being so, how does it make them more deserving than the four picked? It doesn't.

 

Regarding Harris, why can't you get off his case? It's fair to say he hasn't been deserving of the nominations for wild cards he has had, but he hasn't bought them, he was offered them and accepted them. In his position, I suspect any of you would do the same. Likewise in the GP challenge, although in that case, many of the riders that were next in line from the semi finals supposedly declined a place to race, Harris was offered the place and took it. So what? He then finished ahead of many of the riders who have been put forward on this forum as deserving of a place in the GP, and matched Smolinski. Surely, if they can't finish ahead of Harris, supposedly so poor according to many on this forum, how can they possibly be included in the series.

 

You couldn't write it.

 

I disagree with this. Laguta, MJJ, Dudek are definitely not one hit wonders unlike Harris.

Just because you only have seen them in occasional international meetings doesn't mean that we have as well.

 

I've been advocating for Laguta to be given a wild card for several years since he have been a solid scorer in the leagues for many years.

I don't know why he haven't entered the qualifiers for 2014, possible he knew that he wouldn't get a visa for the Grand Prix Challenge (GPC).

He have entered the qualifiers in some previous years but at least for one of these years he had to pull out due to injury.

 

Patryk Dudek, Michael Jepsen Jensen and Maciej Janowski are just like Darcy Ward, World U21 champions.

They should have an equally big or possible even bigger cause to be included compared to Darcy and Tai.

Laguta, Dudek and MJJ have also been riding very well in the leagues (at least Poland and Sweden),

 

Also your statement that Harris beat many of them in the GPC, isn't that a bit contradictory to your claim that we shouldn't base are opions

on performances in single international meetings, but you just did with Harris when you said that he did well in the GPC.

[BluTiger]

How so? Laguna isn't prepared to do the qualifiers, MJJ couldn't beat the so called no hoper that is Chris Harris and Dudek didn't even compete. Tai was a completely different set of circumstances, having been in the series before and had come through some very testing times which slowed his progress. In the main, the champions have been the old guard in any case, with only Tai and Holder of the brigade winning titles, the likes of Hancock, Gollob, Pedersen and Crump having taken most of the titles in recent times. Tai has been the exception.

Not only are Dudek and MJJ U21 world champions, they are consistently scoring big points in Poland and Sweden, and improving. Its time for the lame ducks like Lindgren to make way. One meeting on a blue groove Poole track is hardly the fairest way to dismiss a young man who has already won 2 world titles and a GP...

[Trees]

Lol, these guys have got to get through the qualifiers I guess, it's BSI's baby, the World Championship, they pick who makes their competition viable . .

[The White Knight]

Lol, these guys have got to get through the qualifiers I guess, it's BSI's baby, the World Championship, they pick who makes their competition viable . .

 

 

........................... and there we have it in a nutshell. (sad)

[iris123]

........................... and there we have it in a nutshell. (sad)

Nut is right,but i don't think her name is Shell lol

[Dave the Mic]

Of course it is unfair that Harris is the first reserve.More deserving candidates are out there and Harris is a serial failure who shouldn't have been anywhere near the meeting.Quite possibly the spot should have gone to a German rider who should have been in the meeting instead of him.As a late replacement he cozuld have completed in the meeting basically illegaly,but his points shouldn't have counted.Sure i remember rider competing in meetings,but not being in the actual competition......As it is if we look at the GP qualis we haveHarris (2 meetings) 4+10 which gives an average of 7Batchelor (3 meetings) 12+3,9+2,9=10Liglad (3) 12+3,11+3,7=10Jonasson (3) 9,9,6=8So all have a better average than Harris and all failed just the once.The thing is only Harris gets another chance after failing

The average score isn't relevantly at all. Whether Harris should have been given a place in the GPC, is not my point, it was about the slating of a man risking his neck to entertain us. Anyone who races speedway is not a failure, but a very brave person and regardless of your view, Harris, or any other rider, for that matter, is not a failure.

 

Further, the averages you refer to are irrelevant and how can he have competed illegally, when his inclusion was sanctioned by the FIM. And why should the place have been given to a German rider? On what grounds? Smolinski has qualified by right and I salute him for that, but you can't honestly suggest there is another German rider who could have been in with a chance?

I disagree with this. Laguta, MJJ, Dudek are definitely not one hit wonders unlike Harris.

Just because you only have seen them in occasional international meetings doesn't mean that we have as well.

 

I've been advocating for Laguta to be given a wild card for several years since he have been a solid scorer in the leagues for many years.

I don't know why he haven't entered the qualifiers for 2014, possible he knew that he wouldn't get a visa for the Grand Prix Challenge (GPC).

He have entered the qualifiers in some previous years but at least for one of these years he had to pull out due to injury.

 

Patryk Dudek, Michael Jepsen Jensen and Maciej Janowski are just like Darcy Ward, World U21 champions.

They should have an equally big or possible even bigger cause to be included compared to Darcy and Tai.

Laguta, Dudek and MJJ have also been riding very well in the leagues (at least Poland and Sweden),

 

Also your statement that Harris beat many of them in the GPC, isn't that a bit contradictory to your claim that we shouldn't base are opions

on performances in single international meetings, but you just did with Harris when you said that he did well in the GPC.

I respect your view, but disagree with you. How do you know I have only seen these riders in occasional international meetings? You make a massive assumption in making that statement. Just because you advocate Laguta, does that make you right? No, it doesn't. In any case, if he isn't prepared to go through the process, why should he be handed a spot? What makes him special? Possibly he couldn't get a visa, but also, perhaps he thinks he is "better" than doing the qualifiers and thinks he should be handed a place?

 

And why would Dudek, MJJ and Janowski be more deserving than Tai, or Darcy. Don't make me laugh. With the possible exception of Nicki Pedersen, Darcy, not that I like him personally, is the biggest box office in speedway and Tai's credentials need no justification at all.

 

Regarding the "one off" meetings, I accept this, but the point is, the one off meeting in question here was the GP play off, so it sort of mattered and Harris took the chance he was offered and why wouldn't he? The 16 riders knew the rules when they lined up at Poole.

Not only are Dudek and MJJ U21 world champions, they are consistently scoring big points in Poland and Sweden, and improving. Its time for the lame ducks like Lindgren to make way. One meeting on a blue groove Poole track is hardly the fairest way to dismiss a young man who has already won 2 world titles and a GP...

Yes they are, but Dudek was actually a reserve in Poland for most of the season and MJJ has had many poor meetings this season. And is Lindgren the same lame duck that has won a GP as recently as 2012? Thought so. And I'm not dismissing anyone, MJJ, is very talented, it just happens to be my view that he isn't a GP rider, not yet, at least.

[Pinny]

What makes Lindgren any more deserving of a wild card? Didnt do qualifiers and failed to make top 8.

 

Hes a very average rider when you take away the GB league, MJJ a fresh up coming talent, has won gps before, won world under 21 titles, been part of world cup winning teams, he should of been given a wild card instead of yet another for Lindgren.

[Trees]

Because he's Swedish and they wanted Swedish representation because of the Swedish authorities who pay money for the priviledge of having a Swedish GP!

[Star Fever]

......but a couple of decent performances on the world stage does not a GP rider make....

Exactly, but that's hardly a good statement in defence of Harris is it? Apart from his amazing win at Cardiff he's shown over many years that he does'nt really have what it takes compared to the rest of the GP riders for whatever reason. His time has passed - he's had his moment.

 

I've nothing against him - he's certainly got what it takes to be a speedway rider and can be a pleasure to watch - just not in GPs.

[iris123]

The average score isn't relevantly at all. Whether Harris should have been given a place in the GPC, is not my point, it was about the slating of a man risking his neck to entertain us. Anyone who races speedway is not a failure, but a very brave person and regardless of your view, Harris, or any other rider, for that matter, is not a failure.

 

Further, the averages you refer to are irrelevant and how can he have competed illegally, when his inclusion was sanctioned by the FIM. And why should the place have been given to a German rider? On what grounds? Smolinski has qualified by right and I salute him for that, but you can't honestly suggest there is another German rider who could have been in with a chance?

You fail to convince me on any of your points.In fact most miss and you have to revert to the old old one of "He is risking his life for our entertainment.....".Face facts.Harris went out not to entertain,but to make the top 8 or better during his time in the GPs.Mostly he didn't make it,which not only in my opinion,but surely his,meant he failed to live up to his expectations.This makes him a failure and because he failed on a number of occasions means he is a serial failure whether you like it or not.

 

Quite often i have not been entertained when going to meetings or watching them on tv/livestream which by your criteria means quite a lot of riders are failures.They do it to make money and don't think of me in the slightest.

 

The scores i quoted which are fact are only irrelevant because you don't like them and don't fit what you are saying.As it was,the German Fedration came out and stated that the rules were broken by including Harris without first informing them that there was a vacancy and for them to supply quite rightly a rider for that vacancy.Now i don't know what you call not following or breaking a rule,but to me that is not lawful,i.e illegal.Ok this is speedway and we get used to rules being broken,but what word would you use to describe that then?As a German rider should have been in,instead of Harris those are the grounds,regardless of whether Smoli qualified.I think if we go back to the early rounds in which Harris got his entertaining 4 points at least one German other than Smolinski scored more and did qualify for the next round.Maybe he would have scored more again if he was in the Poole meeting?