speedibee Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Another Gp series without a British rider then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Another Gp series without a British rider then Putting aside your argument that Woffinden isn't British, I found this season so much easier to watch without a token Brit plodding around at the back, moaning away in every interview. Whether YOU think Tai is British or not, he chose to ride for us and as things stand, he's the only 'British' rider anywhere near good enough at this level. Although I thought he was just another Chris Harris/Freddie Lindgren, sponging off the organisers, this season he has proven me wrong in the best way possible, becoming World Champion. For that he gets my total respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsgirl Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The players that automatically get berths in events in these sports generally do so on merit. They have to earn ranking points by playing in a number of competitions over the course of a season, and are not just arbitrarily selected by the event organisers. There are a few wildcard places in each event for local interest, but they're one-offs rather than season-long selections. Golf does have exemption from qualifying for former champions etc.. as well, but again these are earned rather than granted. The SGP line-up should be selected on some sort of ranking criteria based around rider performances in various leagues and other competitions. You might not actually get a better line-up, but it would be more credible from sporting perspective. Thanks Humphrey, Your comments support the current system by verifying the wildcards earn their places in other sports also. Speedway wildcards may be selected by organisers but I haven't seen one yet that hasn't proven to have won races against current top form riders and therefore earned their place. It would not be in their interest to have Wildcards who are not up to standard & would consider the current form of these riders in all leagues and local competition in which they compete. Note that qualified riders often finish lower in the Grand Prix than the wildcards. Speedway has such diverse levels of entry into the Grand Prix it is impossible to have qualification that is viewed as fair to all by everyone. "are not just arbitrarily selected by the event organisers" I think at times 'stars' of golf are offered huge appearance fees to compete in major tournaments so sways towards selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 According to http://www.speedwayn...ar-wild-card-2/ Andreas Jonsson, Tomasz Gollob, Chris Holder and Grigoruj Laguta have been offered wild cards for 2014. However Gorgorij have asked for some more time to decide if he wants it or not. Presumably there won't be any of the previous visa issues with Laguta for any of the GP rounds?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 It needn't BE the best line up. It should be for those who have fought their way in to the GP. That is what Sport is about - not giving Riders a place for the fun of it. OF COURSE picking the BEST Riders gives you the best line up - I have never said that it doesn't. I always believed and STILL believe that in Sport you strive to be the very best that you can be by matching yourself against those with, sometimes, superior ability. Now and again, and yes - Woofinden is a case in point here - someone will win against all odds against the Giants of the Sport. My WHOLE argument is that EVERYBODY deserves a chance to upset the odds, not just the selected few. To those who say that the old World Finals had a certain amount of selection about them too - you are correct - BUT - I stick to my position - THAT was not RIGHT either. All I want from Speedway is a level Playing Field for ALL. I DON'T SEE WHAT IS SO VERY WRONG ABOUT THAT - AND NEVER WILL!!! You are right Niamh - I don't. Places in the GP should be earned NOT given on grounds of good business, nationality, BSI Favourites or for any other reason than that they have EARNED their right to be there. If I had my way - at the end on one GP year the World Champion would be proclaimed - that would be the end of it. The following Season ALL Riders would start from scratch INCLUDING THE TOP EIGHT!! THEN WE COULD TRULY CALL SPEEDWAY A SPORT!!! Good post, totally agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Presumably there won't be any of the previous visa issues with Laguta for any of the GP rounds?! The United Kingdom is the only country were the Laguta brothers had these visa problems. Don't know about NZ, though, could be a similar case there, too, but since his younger brother has already done a full season of Grand Prx racing two years ago, he knows all about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 tbf , the riders they have selected are the best three in the world not already qualified. Id be against a pure ranking system method though purely because past performance is not the only guide to future performance and such a system may inhibit rising talent from joining the series. I wouldn't suggest they haven't selected the best riders, but I think places in the World's premier event should be earned rather than obtained through patronage. Rising talent will earn their place anyway if they're good enough, but the wildcard slot could be used to try out riders who might add some interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 It needn't BE the best line up. It should be for those who have fought their way in to the GP. That is what Sport is about - not giving Riders a place for the fun of it. OF COURSE picking the BEST Riders gives you the best line up - I have never said that it doesn't. I always believed and STILL believe that in Sport you strive to be the very best that you can be by matching yourself against those with, sometimes, superior ability. Now and again, and yes - Woofinden is a case in point here - someone will win against all odds against the Giants of the Sport. My WHOLE argument is that EVERYBODY deserves a chance to upset the odds, not just the selected few. To those who say that the old World Finals had a certain amount of selection about them too - you are correct - BUT - I stick to my position - THAT was not RIGHT either. All I want from Speedway is a level Playing Field for ALL. I DON'T SEE WHAT IS SO VERY WRONG ABOUT THAT - AND NEVER WILL!!! THEN WE COULD TRULY CALL SPEEDWAY A SPORT!!! So in order to give the sport the credibility you say is missing, to make it back into a proper sport all that is needed is to have a World Championship contested by a field of lower order riders. Make sure that it is impossible for the best 16 riders to be in with a chance of being in it. Maybe assure places to riders who would not be in anyone's top 50 and if you could exclude one or two of that seasons stand out stars all the better. I see where you are coming from on this one Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 So in order to give the sport the credibility you say is missing, to make it back into a proper sport all that is needed is to have a World Championship contested by a field of lower order riders. Make sure that it is impossible for the best 16 riders to be in with a chance of being in it. Maybe assure places to riders who would not be in anyone's top 50 and if you could exclude one or two of that seasons stand out stars all the better. I see where you are coming from on this one Ian as ive said you wont convince him but he is entitled to his opinion. bit stuck in the dark ages. we could with the old style qualifying system have reached a world final this year where due to injuries it wouldnt have had: TAI, SAYFUTDINOV, HOLDER, GOLLOB, LINDGREN, JONSSON, NICKI PEDERSEN. But that would be fine we could have had Dryml and Ulamek and Walasek for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 So in order to give the sport the credibility you say is missing, to make it back into a proper sport all that is needed is to have a World Championship contested by a field of lower order riders. Make sure that it is impossible for the best 16 riders to be in with a chance of being in it. Maybe assure places to riders who would not be in anyone's top 50 and if you could exclude one or two of that seasons stand out stars all the better. I see where you are coming from on this one Ian IF they are the best 16 Riders in the World - they should have NO problems Qualifying then - should they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 IF they are the best 16 Riders in the World - they should have NO problems Qualifying then - should they? Well it depends on when the final qualifiers were held,but say Holder,Sayfutdinov and even Woffinden might have had a bit of trouble this season qualifying for next year......i know you will say "tough" or something,but none of your arguments can make me believe that next years GPs would be better without any of those riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 IF they are the best 16 Riders in the World - they should have NO problems Qualifying then - should they? Yes Ian. Take the USA in 1980. They boasted Penhall, Autrey, Sigalos, Kelly Moran but no matter how good only 2 could progress to the next round. The Aussies and Kiwis had a similar situation. To a lesser extent so did England in 1978. It is impossible to devise a qualifying process that is fair to all and that is before you factor in injury or e/f etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Take the USA in 1980. They boasted Penhall, Autrey, Sigalos, Kelly Moran but no matter how good only 2 could progress to the next round. The Aussies and Kiwis had a similar situation. To a lesser extent so did England in 1978.It is impossible to devise a qualifying process that is fair to all and that is before you factor in injury or e/f etc Whilst there were extreme examples of a limited number of qualifying places from certain countries/regions in the past, there's no reason why a qualifying system couldn't be devised to reduce the incidences of this. Indeed the system of two Semi-Finals towards the end of the one-off World Final era ensured much better line-ups (relatively speaking) than had hitherto been the case. Nevertheless, the reality is that a field of different nationalities is needed to create interest. There were times in the 1980s when more the half the line-ups would be full of Danes, and probably the same for other nationalities at various times. It would have been quite boring... Edited October 15, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Nevertheless, the reality is that a field of different nationalities is needed to create interest. There were times in the 1980s when more the half the line-ups would be full of Danes, and probably the same for other nationalities at various times. It would have been quite boring... Another important factor.We want to see the best riders of course,but interest around the globe(well Europe really) needs to be maintained.Just as an extreme example look at Ice Speedway.If it was down to the best 16 riders then possibly 12,13 or 14 would be Russian.They had for years a limit of 8 Russians and have now reduced it even further down to 6 i think.Saying that i don't think it has really made much difference in furthering interest and it seems the FIM might be having trouble attracting West European and possibly even Russian tracks and i don't see an upsurge in West European riders either.But i guess without a Dutch rider or a German rider in then interest would shrink even further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Whilst there were extreme examples of a limited number of qualifying places from certain countries/regions in the past, there's no reason why a qualifying system couldn't be devised to reduce the incidences of this. Indeed the system of two Semi-Finals towards the end of the one-off World Final era ensured much better line-ups (relatively speaking) than had hitherto been the case. Nevertheless, the reality is that a field of different nationalities is needed to create interest. There were times in the 1980s when more the half the line-ups would be full of Danes, and probably the same for other nationalities at various times. It would have been quite boring... There is no real need to devise a qualifying system. The current way is absolutely fine for most people, apart from a few dinosaurs... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 There is no real need to devise a qualifying system. The current way is absolutely fine for most people, apart from a few dinosaurs... Well that's OK then. It's should be remembered that it is us 'Dinosaurs' who are turning up in regular numbers. It is the YOUNGER Generation that is letting Speedway down. :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Another Gp series without a British rider then At least 2nd generation Scunthorpe, now could someone remind me which country Scunthorpe is in? Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 There is no real need to devise a qualifying system. The current way is absolutely fine for most people, apart from a few dinosaurs... Well at least the few who still follow the sport... I actually don't particularly advocate a return to an old-style qualifying system - it seems daft to decide places in a GP based on one-off meetings - but it's equally ridiculous to justify there shouldn't be a qualifying system basing that opinion on the vagaries of how things were in the past. Organisers hand-picking riders has no sporting merit whatsoever, and I don't think it happens in any serious top-level sport. There is some sort of recognised qualifying process, whether that be based on a ranking system or some sort of qualifying competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Well at least the few who still follow the sport... I actually don't particularly advocate a return to an old-style qualifying system - it seems daft to decide places in a GP based on one-off meetings - but it's equally ridiculous to justify there shouldn't be a qualifying system basing that opinion on the vagaries of how things were in the past. Organisers hand-picking riders has no sporting merit whatsoever, and I don't think it happens in any serious top-level sport. There is some sort of recognised qualifying process, whether that be based on a ranking system or some sort of qualifying competition. There is a qualifying system.There is a series of meetings to qualify both the GP series itself and qualifying meetingd.There are though a few riders picked generally on merit.It is hard to pick more than one,maybe two riders who are picked who shouldn't be in the series.Hardly a big scandal....In fact mostly it is the riders who have qualified through those relatively open qualifiers who are the worst. There isn't a lot wrong with the line-ups each year.The main problem for me is the tracks picked and the poor race surfaces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Organisers hand-picking riders has no sporting merit whatsoever, and I don't think it happens in any serious top-level sport. There is some sort of recognised qualifying process, whether that be based on a ranking system or some sort of qualifying competition. Apart from, lets see, Moto GP, Formula 1 (and most other formulas), WRC. Are they not top level Edited October 15, 2013 by Oldace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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