Gavan Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 So crazy it's how the gold and siver medalists got into the series, but if you think it would have been better to have a world championship series without them... Niamh exactly Niamh and not forgetting Ward who probably would have been top 5 without his injury. in fact the only wild card who struggled was Vaculik and even he had won a gp before. no the best way is have qualifiers and get dross in case people get injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) After the last weekend I feel confident in saying that three of the four Wild Cards will be going to Chris Holder (injured), Tomasz Gollob (injured) and Fredrik Lindgren (Sweden). That leaves just ONE Wild Card and for entertainment it is most likely Grigory Laguta is favourite to land the #15 race jacket. can you motivate this? Why are you so confident in this? Gollob have been injured as well but have in mind that Holder also have been injured which means that if both had not been injured Gollob would still probably have finished outside top 8. I can't understand why people are so obsessed with Gollob? He should do what Adams did and bow out of the series. I'd rather have Miedzinski or Dudek (the current would U21 champion) as I think they will add more then an oldie who just don't seem to care. Then Lindgern, why should they give another wild card to Lindgren? What have he shown this season that merits a wild card? AJ missed at least 1½ GPs and have been showing signs of improvement in the last couple of GPs. Lindgren have been as good as he always have been (except for last season). I is usually quite good but just not good enough to get within top 8 in neither the individaul Grand Prix or in the total standings. I also think that Jonsson have a higher capacity then Freddie and Jonsson have rarely needed a wild card to get in to the series ( i think it is twice only) while Freddie have needed a wild card for all except two seasons. Freddie is just another Chris Harris. Jonsson have shown many times that he can finish top 8. He also have 1 podium finishes as well as an additional top 5 finish. Edited October 7, 2013 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jonasson is miles better than Freddie "Wildcard" Lindgren and AJ "One good season" Jonsson. do you make a habit of talking out of your derriere! are we talking about THJ the elite league second string? Lindgren has needed wild cards i agree but he is a better rider than Jonasson and so to is Andreas. Dont get the guff about new blood lets just get the best riders we can and Jonasson isnt even close. Good job that Tai and Hampel were given extra chances!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Jonasson is miles better than Freddie "Wildcard" Lindgren Care to post both their EL averages? Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) It must be grating for the long list of riders who went to the effort, time and expense of getting past round one of the qualifiers, that a rider who was gifted his place at the GP Challenge Final because he was relatively local, is now first reserve in 2014, on account of five half decent rides in one meeting. Especially when that said rider bombed out earlier in the qualifiers and has had more opportunities than any other rider in world speedway. Woffinden, Hampel and Ward have proven the Wild Card system can work, but there are riders like Harris and Lindgren who have frittered so many opportunities, yet time and again are given charity the following season. Limit the number of Wild Cards one rider can have to one or two (unless a serious injury means they miss more than one round). Contrast the attitude of Harris with Woffinden this year for example. One rider dined out on his nationality for most of his time in the GP's, the other appreciated the opportunity he was given, totally re-evaluated his approach to the sport and is now World Champion. Obviously Tai's far greater natural talent helped, but the effect of his off-track changes shouldn't be undervalued. It's those kind of riders we need. JT. Edited October 7, 2013 by JT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 St Petersburg is where Emil Sayfutdinov lives and for most Russians 350 miles is like popping down the road. Anyway, Tampere promoters feel they can attract fans from Russia. Ok,Russians are one of if not the biggest visitors in numbers and probably spending power to finland,but like you say the main man is already in.What use would adding Laguta do to the Finnish GP and is it worth adding him just for that and Daugavpils?ok he is popular in Poland.... I wouldn't disagree with him in,but surely the reality is he would only add a 100 or two to the gate at both Tampere and Daugavpils.Hardly going to turn either of them into a financial success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I am confident in saying Freddie will get a Wild Card nomination by Sweden ....... even as a Wolves and Freddie fan I can understand everyone saying he shouldn't be given it after a poor 2013 season in the GP's and to finish with a very poor 2 points in Torun. However I have heard the views of some people who may have a say in who is selected as Wild Cards and that's why I think Freddie will be given the Swedish spot ...... rightly or wrongly ! No one should question Holder and Gollob getting them really so it's the final two nominations that are really up for discussion and with Freddie (most likely) to get one then it's the final place that will be up to who gets the nod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It must be grating for the long list of riders who went to the effort, time and expense of getting past round one of the qualifiers, that a rider who was gifted his place at the GP Challenge Final because he was relatively local, is now first reserve in 2014, on account of five half decent rides in one meeting. Especially when that said rider bombed out earlier in the qualifiers and has had more opportunities than any other rider in world speedway. Woffinden, Hampel and Ward have proven the Wild Card system can work, but there are riders like Harris and Lindgren who have frittered so many opportunities, yet time and again are given charity the following season. Limit the number of Wild Cards one rider can have to one or two (unless a serious injury means they miss more than one round). Contrast the attitude of Harris with Woffinden this year for example. One rider dined out on his nationality for most of his time in the GP's, the other appreciated the opportunity he was given, totally re-evaluated his approach to the sport and is now World Champion. Obviously Tai's far greater natural talent helped, but the effect of his off-track changes shouldn't be undervalued. It's those kind of riders we need. JT. Nevertheless Chris Harris and Tai Woffinden have only won one grand prix each 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I am confident in saying Freddie will get a Wild Card nomination by Sweden ....... even as a Wolves and Freddie fan I can understand everyone saying he shouldn't be given it after a poor 2013 season in the GP's and to finish with a very poor 2 points in Torun. However I have heard the views of some people who may have a say in who is selected as Wild Cards and that's why I think Freddie will be given the Swedish spot ...... rightly or wrongly ! No one should question Holder and Gollob getting them really so it's the final two nominations that are really up for discussion and with Freddie (most likely) to get one then it's the final place that will be up to who gets the nod Why? Surely you can't decide what others should be allowed to question? Who are you to decide that everyone else should be forced to agree about your opinions? Gollob is most definitely questionable. @Iris123, Laguta should be included because he is possible the best rider outside the GP-series. He have been a very consistent scorer in the leagues for many years but have always been overlooked for a wild card. He is definitely a top 8 candidate and possible a top 5 candidate. I don't know how much you have seen of him but I have seen allot of him this year and he have been very good at finding gaps for overtaking. Regarding Gollob I do hope that BSI continues what they have started with Emil, Holder, Tai and Darcy by bringing in a new fresh young face that will pick up the fight with the other young stars mentioned above. Add Hampel, NKI, Nicki and Laguta to that and we're for a real treat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 @Iris123, Laguta should be included because he is possible the best rider outside the GP-series. He have been a very consistent scorer in the leagues for many years but have always been overlooked for a wild card. He is definitely a top 8 candidate and possible a top 5 candidate. I don't know how much you have seen of him but I have seen allot of him this year and he have been very good at finding gaps for overtaking. I agree.I think his ability should be enough to justify a place.I think his influence on the attendance at either daugavpils or tampere will be negligeable and not really needed as an argument for him being included.His ability is enough.Unless he has some big sponsor that would conclude the deal........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I am confident in saying Freddie will get a Wild Card nomination by Sweden ....... even as a Wolves and Freddie fan I can understand everyone saying he shouldn't be given it after a poor 2013 season in the GP's and to finish with a very poor 2 points in Torun. However I have heard the views of some people who may have a say in who is selected as Wild Cards and that's why I think Freddie will be given the Swedish spot ...... rightly or wrongly ! No one should question Holder and Gollob getting them really so it's the final two nominations that are really up for discussion and with Freddie (most likely) to get one then it's the final place that will be up to who gets the nod Utter cobblers even by your usual standards. There is no "Swedish spot" and if there was it certainly isn't nominated by Sweden. Agree with Ghostie, Gollobs inclusion could certainly be questioned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Yes, maybe. But how do you think the 2013 World Champion got his place? It was commercial reasons. Look how that turned out. That is NOT the point. The point is that the current System of nominating Riders is robbing Riders who MAY have qualified for a Grand Prix place. So crazy it's how the gold and siver medalists got into the series, but if you think it would have been better to have a world championship series without them... Niamh No I don't - BUT crucially I think it would have been morally CORRECT. exactly Niamh and not forgetting Ward who probably would have been top 5 without his injury. in fact the only wild card who struggled was Vaculik and even he had won a gp before. no the best way is have qualifiers and get dross in case people get injured I don't see how you can call Riders who have qualified in front of other, perhaps more gifted Riders as DROSS. :mad: Anyway - let's just carry on picking who BSI want in the GP - it's matterless what anybody else thinks anyway. :sad: THEY pay the MONEY - THEY can PICK the Riders I suppose. Doesn't make it RIGHT though. SPEEDWAY - SOLD FOR A SONG!!!!! Edited October 7, 2013 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflyingkiwi Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 A Swedish rider will be nominated for a wildcard position for the forthcoming GP series. Would Woffinden have been granted his place in the GP this year had Chris Harris qualified into the top 8 last year? With two GPs in Sweden next year a Swedish rider needs to take part regularly in the GPs, especially considering the 4 year contract that BSI have with the Friends Arena a Swedish rider is needed to give the locals something to shout about. Considering the questionable decision to hand Harris a wildcard on two occasions how can it be argued against a Swedish rider being given a wildcard based on commercial reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severnsider Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I find it odd that complaints were being made re qualification or picks when SEC was worse. One permanent rider from Poland, Russia, Sweden, Denmark & then UK and in qualifiers a limit on how many from each country could progress (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimiC Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Admittedly I have seen very little of him, mainly in the European Championship coverage on Eurosport, but Laguta scares me, he's wild!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iand Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 When will we know who gets the picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 When will we know who gets the picks? When BSI can be ar**d to tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 That is NOT the point. The point is that the current System of nominating Riders is robbing Riders who MAY have qualified for a Grand Prix place. No I don't - BUT crucially I think it would have been morally CORRECT. I don't see how you can call Riders who have qualified in front of other, perhaps more gifted Riders as DROSS. :mad: Anyway - let's just carry on picking who BSI want in the GP - it's matterless what anybody else thinks anyway. :sad: THEY pay the MONEY - THEY can PICK the Riders I suppose. Doesn't make it RIGHT though. SPEEDWAY - SOLD FOR A SONG!!!!! ok lets go back to the old style qualifiers like we used to have. lets say we have a season like this with riders injured for important rounds. thta means you could have (based on this year) a gp season without: HOLDER,SAYFUTDINOV,WARD, WOFFINDEN, GOLLOB, LINDGREN, JONSSON. You cant seriously be happy with that! Look at the World Final in Munich 1989. Most of the top boys were missing through injury. sorry but you are living in the dark ages if you think the current system of picking riders doesnt get you the best line up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullbore Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 sorry but you are living in the dark ages if you think the current system of picking riders doesnt get you the best line up I think we're missing the point... TWK doesn't want the best riders in the GP series. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think we're missing the point... TWK doesn't want the best riders in the GP series. Niamh Well his other argument against a GP system surely has some merit. That is the one about the underdog, rank outsider, young guy not having a chance to be world champion as in the old days. Just hold fire on that one while I check some stats from this years GP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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