Wild Cards 2014

[The White Knight]

The qualifiers are no better at finding the best either hence the reason we end up with tosh like Dryml ot Zorto etc before him

 

But at least qualifying is an even playing field.

 

PICKS, GIFTS, SPONSOR'S INFLUENCE, FAVOURITISM, NATIONALITY TO BRING IN PUNTERS AT THE GATE, HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SPORT. :mad:

 

Of course when people like those you mention qualify - you can always get upsets. Once in a while the unexpected happens and someone different wins a GP.

 

To use Football parlance - a Giant Killing Act.

 

This ADDS interest to the Sport and reduces the amount of seeing the same old Riders at EVERY GP EVERY YEAR. :rolleyes:

Edited September 22, 2013 by The White Knight

[Ghostwalker]

 

Well I think most of us would have no problem deciding that Dryml wasn't one of them!

 

Niamh

 

Perhaps not but how would you separate someone like Kasprzak from lets say Lindgren? Or Patryk Dudek from Michael Jepsen Jensen?

[fullbore]

Perhaps not but how would you separate someone like Kasprzak from lets say Lindgren? Or Patryk Dudek from Michael Jepsen Jensen?

 

80 and 81 popints so far this year between the first 2... personally I'd give the 2 yongsters a pick before either of them.

 

OK KK has his place through the challenge, but I wouldn't have given him a pick.

 

Niamh

[SCB]

How many times has someone won the GP series after qualifying? How many times has a wildcard won the GPs?

 

What about podium positions?

[Ghostwalker]

80 and 81 popints so far this year between the first 2... personally I'd give the 2 yongsters a pick before either of them.

 

OK KK has his place through the challenge, but I wouldn't have given him a pick.

 

Niamh

 

That isn't the question nor the point,

 

The question remains you have a wild card to hand out and you can only choose between KK and FL. So how would you decide who is the better rider?

[The White Knight]

That isn't the question nor the point,

 

The question remains you have a wild card to hand out and you can only choose between KK and FL. So how would you decide who is the better rider?

 

I don't think Niamh is able to answer the questions Ghostwalker.

[fullbore]

I don't think Niamh is able to answer the questions Ghostwalker.

 

It wasn't the question!

 

"Perhaps not but how would you separate someone like Kasprzak from lets say Lindgren?" makes no reference to picking either as a wild card.

 

Niamh

Edited September 23, 2013 by Niamh

[The White Knight]

It wasn't the question!

 

"Perhaps not but how would you separate someone like Kasprzak from lets say Lindgren?" makes no reference to picking either as a wild card.

 

Niamh

 

That's a cop out Niamh - and I think that you know it. :rofl: :rofl:

[phillipsr]

Surely its better to argue over whos better out of KK and Lindgren than have Dryml, Zorro etc riding. I personally would get rid of all qualification increase automatic places to top 10 then have 5 permanet wild cards

[The White Knight]

Surely its better to argue over whos better out of KK and Lindgren than have Dryml, Zorro etc riding. I personally would get rid of all qualification increase automatic places to top 10 then have 5 permanet wild cards

 

So you would have a Speedway Show. There is no way that you could call what you are proposing - SPORT!!

 

What a JOKE!!!! :shock:

[SPEEDY69]

Who is better than who is simply a matter of opinion. On any given day lots of riders are in the mix. The Euro Champs were done on an invitation basis and has that made the racing any better? Jonsson has had several years in the GP but will never be World Champ so why should he get another shot? Ditto for Lindgren, who has repeadtedly failed to make the top 8.

 

I've actually stopped watching the GPs simply because I'm bored of the seeing the same riders all the time. Either pick all the riders, as the previous poster said, and then call it the SGP series or keep the 'World Championship' element alive and increase the quantity of qualifying positions.

[fullbore]

Joke is what the 4th placed finisher in last year's challenge has proved to be.

 

The 4 picks (Tai, Jarek, Darcy and Vakulik) have all far outscored Dryml.

 

Now exactly why do you think the GP series would be better without those four?

 

Niamh

 

I've actually stopped watching the GPs simply because I'm bored of the seeing the same riders all the time.

 

38 riders have riden in the series so far with 33 different points scorers.

 

Niamh

[phillipsr]

 

 

So you would have a Speedway Show. There is no way that you could call what you are proposing - SPORT!!

 

What a JOKE!!!! :shock:

 

Its been engineered for years even back in the apparent good old days. Its no more of a joke tham some of the olden day world finals woth tracks doctored so to engineer a champion

[The White Knight]

Its been engineered for years even back in the apparent good old days. Its no more of a joke tham some of the olden day world finals woth tracks doctored so to engineer a champion

 

Oh - but I think it is.

[waiheke1]

I never stated ALL of Speedway's problems Philip - just a hell of a lot of them. Race days as has been mentioned and lack of top Riders in our so called Elite League is another, in my opinion.

The main reason (IMHO) behing top riders not racing in Britain is the downfall of communism in Poland. They can now earn a lot more racing over there, wheras in the 70s/80s Briatin was where you woudl earn ecent money, topped up by lucrative bookings in Germany r elsewhere on the continent on a sunday. and of course, once most top riders started racing in poland, if you want to be a top rider then you need to race there too to stay at the top level.

 

Well why the heck have QUALIFYING Rounds Niamh - if you are just going to PICK the 'best in the World'.

 

I really can't understand why you don't seem to get it - we are talking about a SPORT - you know COMPETITION.

 

Ian

why have qualifying rounds - well, 11 of the 15 spots are "qualified" , so most spots are earned through qualification.

the 8 spots from the gp series mean interest goes down to the wire,, a bit like relegation does in the premier league - even those with no chance of making the podium still have something to race for, which of course must reduces markedly the possibility of race fixing (i.e. riders letting their "mates" finish ahead of them).

the three spots wwith knock out qualification gives all riders of a decent standard the opportunity of a "giant killing" qualification run.

and the four remaining spots gives the possiblity of spots for top riders who have been injured, hot up and coming talent who have missed out, and also a spread of nationalities.

But you still haven't answered the questions Niamh:

 

i) Why have Qualifiers?

 

and

 

ii) How do you decide who are the best in the World?

i) see above

ii) based on their performances in GPs, GP qualifiers, league racing. SWC etc. You'd also take into accoutn factors such as injury, potential etc. Somone could probably come up ith a mathematical formula which would measure the first part, not so much the second "soft" creiteria

But at least qualifying is an even playing field.

 

PICKS, GIFTS, SPONSOR'S INFLUENCE, FAVOURITISM, NATIONALITY TO BRING IN PUNTERS AT THE GATE, HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SPORT. :mad:

 

Of course when people like those you mention qualify - you can always get upsets. Once in a while the unexpected happens and someone different wins a GP.

 

To use Football parlance - a Giant Killing Act.

 

This ADDS interest to the Sport and reduces the amount of seeing the same old Riders at EVERY GP EVERY YEAR. :rolleyes:

 

How's this for a giant killing act... a 200-1 rank outsider. Dislocates a collarbone, but rides through the pain barrier, to win a world titkle, which he dedicates to his father, also a speedway riderm, who passed aay to year's earler. ..

 

Look at the injuries that have happenned this year. In an old style "knock out" world final, you could have ended up with a final missing Holder, Ward, Emil, Tai, Gollob, Jonsson as result of them missing a meeting due to injuty - hat a atered down final that ould have been.

 

Looking back at the 70s/80s - ouldnt PC's triumph in 76 have been sweeter if he'd also defeated reogning champ Olsen, ditto Lee in 80 if Mauger had been there to defend his cron, wouldn't the 85 final have been richer for the presence of local boy and top English talent Kenny Carter, cubntless other examples.

 

Perhaps not but how would you separate someone like Kasprzak from lets say Lindgren? Or Patryk Dudek from Michael Jepsen Jensen?

You'd look at performances across all competitions, and other factors such as number of spots already secured by thatnation for the folloign year, whethe rriders have had injuries, has the rider previoyusly been given a wildcard etc.

In the first example, I'd say you'd give Lindgren a spot next year because there aren't any sweded in the series. If that hadn't been the case (i.e. poles/swedes ere eual), i'd give it to whoever finished higher in this years gp series.

dudek vs MJJ - other things being equal, i'd give it to Dudek, who has finished much higher in domestic competitions, and shone in the World cup.

So you would have a Speedway Show. There is no way that you could call what you are proposing - SPORT!!

 

What a JOKE!!!! :shock:

 

Do you consider the Olympuics a sport? Because they don't really have quaalifiers (each nation can select who they want to go, as long as they have achievedd the requisite standard). what a joke!

World cup football/rugby etc. all have quota systems which mean that you on't get all the wolrds top nations there, instead you'll ahve weaker nations who qualify based on their region.

what about the old speeday world finals, where the final was of a weaker standard than the inter-continental final?

Was the orld final a joke in the year's when riders got seeded to the final, or s=certain qualifying rounds? In 86 whern Knudsen was elininated in the Danish final, but then seeded through to the next round, were you equally vocal in yur condemnation.

 

Its been engineered for years even back in the apparent good old days. Its no more of a joke tham some of the olden day world finals woth tracks doctored so to engineer a champion

and of course there was the collusion/race fixing in qualifiers. Penhall in 82 and Wigg in 84 are the most famous examples, but there were many others, the danes in the 82 inter-continental final, Ermolenko letting Hancock by in the 92 overseas final, collins brothers team riding in the 82 overseas final run off and colluding in the 82 final, Ross (already safely qualified) traling home last in the 81 overseas final, allowing Mauger to pick up the two points he needed to qualify , John Berry mentions Sanders having a "mysteious last lap engine failute" in a 70s qualifying meeting hich ensured a "big name" made the final, i'm sure there were many other cases, those are the ones which spring to mind In fact, Berry argued in his book that Olsen's main reason for initiaing the GP series was that he was sick of the horse trading and colusion which went on in world final qualifiers/finals (ket and pottle black spring to mind after oldens actions in the 82 inter-continental final, and i'd suggest money/power were high on olsens list as well).

Edited September 24, 2013 by waihekeaces1

[Red Panda]

My thoughts...............

 

Holder - Due out of wheelchair in the next couple of weeks by all accounts.............no reason as long as he feels that he is ready that he should not get one so that is a given in all honesty..................

 

Gollob - If offered will he accept..............I am not so sure that he would..............

 

Others...............would like to see Vaculik get another shot..............he is young and he is good and it might just give his confidence a boost...........Janowski..............hmmmmm bit like a yo-yo.........is either very good or appalling...............depends on which Janowski comes to the party..........same could be said for THJ though.................there is no middle ground with these two so would they be a good choice???????? Think one could get in but not sure which...............Jonsson...............only in this year because Crump retired................no definitely not............Lindgren...............I think the Swedes are currently in a similar position as we are with world class riders coming through at the moment............the potential for the future is there but if there has to be a token Swede he would be the best prospect.............MJJ..............no..........too highly strung and no regard for others..................Madsen................could mix it but would he be consistent...............on my yes list..............Dryml...........don't even go there.............G Laguta and Lebedevs are also both in with a shout.................

 

So for me it would be Holder and Gollob provided both fit followed by any two from Vaculik, Lebedevs, Madsen and Janowski................or all 4 if CH and TG decline or are unfit.............

 

RP

[waiheke1]

Without a doubt onexwill be a swede .

Would u really pick madsen over mjj? Janowski over dudek?

Lebedevs /vaculik over the lagutas ? G lagutas has surely been the pick of the riders outside the series for the past two years.

Id pick holder gollob lindgren g laguta.

But my guess would be the last place to go to (in order of probability) Harris Jonnson or vaculik .

[JT]

But my guess would be the last place to go to (in order of probability) Harris Jonnson or vaculik .

Oh for Christ sake, surely Harris isn't even a consideration? There are about 25 riders ahead of him in the Elite League, let alone around the world. I had hoped BSI had finally seen the light and given up on him now we have a world class Brit on the scene. Contrast the effort the likes of Woffinden and Iversen have put into their careers (fitness, machinery etc), versus Harris just plodding along, constantly relying on charity. I know he's popular in some circles, but even his biggest fans can surely see he isn't Grand Prix quality?

[PHILIPRISING]

HAD a long chat with Tomasz Gazinski, Gollob's manager, in Stockholm prior to the start. Gollob definitely wants to continue and believes he can win again.

 

Vaculik actually talking about a four or five year break from the SGP before tackling it again.

 

Once Holder is out of wheelchair he will be undertaking a fitness and recovery regime devised by Paul Ankers (recommended to him by Kelvin Tatum) who is a specialist in sports rehabilitation. Lots of hydro-therapy.

 

There will be at least one Swede.

 

Harris not even in the frame. Laguta's cause not helped by his snub to the SWC and problems with Russian federation.

 

Three Danes already in will work against MJJ. Unlikely that two Poles will get wild cards.

[waiheke1]

Based on that then it would seem two Swedes, probably Johnson and lindgren?