Tr Farce Of A Rule.

[BWitcher]

If you read what Shovlar says yeah!! I'm pretty sure that if we got 10 out of 15 exciting, passing galore between 4 rider races the crowds would go up cos people would be waxing lyrical over their night out to everyone!!

 

It's the case all over.. people tell us that tracks like Peterboro, Scunthorpe, Somerset etc produce amazing racing.. they don't get amazing crowds though..

 

Also, teams who are winning with average racing get bigger crowds than teams who are losing with great racing..

 

Great racing would be brilliant, but it's not the sole answer.

[stratton]

For me winning is not important trying to keep the match close certainly should not enter it sport can be unforgiving thats why it is special.The emphasis should be on getting the product/ Racing/entertainment better making it enjoyable.Over the years i have seen plenty of hammering,s for teams,Halifax scored 15 at Swindon i see Swindon get 19 pts at Cradley( a double header Belle Vue got 21 pts.They were not poor meeting,s though,Cradley were just to good you just stood back and were in awe of them so it is a myth that one sided matches are all poor entertainment.

[The White Knight]

It is wrong to suggest one rule change would make you walk away (or at least bother to attend live matches on the terraces), it is probably a succession of the drip-drip introduction of changes, the shifty treatment fans receive from so-called promoters who are guardians of the sport they love.

 

The time comes... when you can't answer a question about a rule that someone beside you on the terraces asks, you scratch your head and think, despite a fan of 30 years... I haven't a clue. You cannot be bothered any longer keeping up with the petty tinkering of rules that seem to be changed one week after another... or riders and keeping up with what team they actually ride for full time and are not just doubling up.

 

I also liked it best when you didn't need qualifications to work out the current league table, what team scored this there and therefore picked up this... it is too much, trying to improve the sport everywhere with little side-dishes and Best Programme Of The Year Awards. Just let us focus on the actual entertainment, the one out on the track aspect.

 

Let us go back to having a simple sport.

 

Excellent Post.

 

This has always been the case however...

 

In addition,do tracks that are renowned for 'exciting racing' get bigger crowds than those that aren't? Not from what I have seen...

 

Of course we all want to see exciting racing, but it doesn't appear that is what pulls the crowds in. Look at F1.. you can have a 90 min borefest in terms of exciting racing, doesn't effect it though.

 

Therefore it could just be argued that ALL the stupid Rules in Speedway (and there are a few) are contributing to the decline in attendances. IF you cannot argue on the one hand that exciting Races does not attract larger Crowds - then perhaps the reason is something else.

 

Concocted and contrived Results do NOT present a very good example of a SPORT that professes to be fair and honest.

 

It's the case all over.. people tell us that tracks like Peterboro, Scunthorpe, Somerset etc produce amazing racing.. they don't get amazing crowds though..

 

Also, teams who are winning with average racing get bigger crowds than teams who are losing with great racing..

 

Great racing would be brilliant, but it's not the sole answer.

 

See my reply above.

[BWitcher]

WK, the 'concocted and contrived results' as you call them have been in existence for decades...

 

In fact, the less 'concocted and contrived' they have made the results... the more crowds have dropped

 

Old tac sub rule when 6pts behind, the most concocted and contrived system there has been.. big crowds...

 

That was changed to 8pts behind, a bit less concocted and contrived.. crowds fall (they had already started falling to be fair).

 

Change to Double pt rule, a bit less concocted and contrived again.... crowds fall

 

Make the pts you have to be behind to use the Double pts larger, so a bit less concocted and contrived again... crowds fall

 

Then stop the use of the Double pts after heat 12, making the results less concocted and contrived than in the past 50 years... crowds fall alarmingly!

 

We've found the way to reverse the decline! Concoct and contrive results as much as possible

Edited May 20, 2013 by BWitcher

[The White Knight]

WK, the 'concocted and contrived results' as you call them have been in existence for decades...

 

In fact, the less 'concocted and contrived' they have made the results... the more crowds have dropped

 

Old tac sub rule when 6pts behind, the most concocted and contrived system there has been.. big crowds...

 

That was changed to 8pts behind, a bit less concocted and contrived.. crowds fall (they had already started falling to be fair).

 

Change to Double pt rule, a bit less concocted and contrived again.... crowds fall

 

Make the pts you have to be behind to use the Double pts larger, so a bit less concocted and contrived again... crowds fall

 

Then stop the use of the Double pts after heat 12, making the results less concocted and contrived than in the past 50 years... crowds fall alarmingly!

 

We've found the way to reverse the decline! Concoct and contrive results as much as possible

 

Isn't that what they are doing.

 

From the way you phrase your Post perhaps there are too many Concoctions and Contrivances - cut ALL of them out and MAYBE, just MAYBE some Supporters at least might return.

 

Anyway - what's this 'Rolling Averages' all about?

[BWitcher]

No it isn't, as I have pointed out, results are LESS 'concocted and contrived' (in the last 2 seasons) than they have been in approx the last 50 years (since tac subs were introduced).

 

Aboloshing Tac's won't add anything to the gates of a speedway meeting.

 

The only hope for the sport is to begin to promote it and find an angle to make it 'the place to be' and 'cool'. Fans drift away from many sports as they grow older, even football you will find thousands who used to go, but no longer do.. the difference is, other sports have had new fans to replace those.. speedway hasn't (in sufficient numbers).

Edited May 20, 2013 by BWitcher

[The White Knight]

No it isn't, as I have pointed out, results are LESS 'concocted and contrived' (in the last 2 seasons) than they have been in approx the last 50 years (since tac subs were introduced).

 

Aboloshing Tac's won't add anything to the gates of a speedway meeting.

 

The only hope for the sport is to begin to promote it and find an angle to make it 'the place to be' and 'cool'. Fans drift away from many sports as they grow older, even football you will find thousands who used to go, but no longer do.. the difference is, other sports have had new fans to replace those.. speedway hasn't (in sufficient numbers).

 

Actually you are probably right BW. Really all I want is to watch Four Riders blasting around a Speedway Track. ALL the rest is complication and unnecessary Rules.

 

I just think that there are those in Speedway who want to make it more complicated than it needs to be. I honestly do think that that is part of the trouble.

[Woz01]

What i dont like about the T/R is that if a team gets a T/R 2nd and and team mate 3rd they get 5-3. The old tac sub would still be 3-3, for me thats rewarding failure.

[BWitcher]

What i dont like about the T/R is that if a team gets a T/R 2nd and and team mate 3rd they get 5-3. The old tac sub would still be 3-3, for me thats rewarding failure.

 

Not really true, as you would most often be replacing a rider likely to finish last under the old tac sub rule. So the result would go from a 2-4 against to a 3-3. Net gain of 2pts.

[The White Knight]

Not really true, as you would most often be replacing a rider likely to finish last under the old tac sub rule. So the result would go from a 2-4 against to a 3-3. Net gain of 2pts.

 

Possibly BW - but then again - possibly not.

[BWitcher]

Possibly BW - but then again - possibly not.

 

95% of the time.

 

It also denied lower order riders track time and an opportunity to race against riders of a more equal ability.

 

It also denied the paying public the spectacle of seeing a more evenly matched race.

 

It also cost more and put more money in the pockets of the big guns and widened the gap between the have's and the have not's.

 

It was also, as discussed, a lot more unfair to the team busting a gut to get ahead.

 

Despite all this, most people prefer it as that's what we grew up with and were used too.

[The White Knight]

95% of the time.

 

It also denied lower order riders track time and an opportunity to race against riders of a more equal ability.

 

It also denied the paying public the spectacle of seeing a more evenly matched race.

 

It also cost more and put more money in the pockets of the big guns and widened the gap between the have's and the have not's.

 

It was also, as discussed, a lot more unfair to the team busting a gut to get ahead.

 

Despite all this, most people prefer it as that's what we grew up with and were used too.

 

Ergo - my thoughts on NO Substitutes at all to gift Points to opposition Riders seems to hold a certain amount of validity.

[msc1874]

 

 

Intelligent adults accept when they get something wrong and they are corrected. It's becoming apparent you don't fall into that camp.

 

I don't accept your assertion that you are correct. Away and bore somebody else with your inane ramblings, I'm done reading them...

[ouch]

Not read all this so sorry if the obvious has already been stated.

It's a money saving thing. Before a top liner came out giving the fans a chance to see him in action again, even if it was a mismatch of a race. The problem was he needed paying start and points money.

 

The new rule does fudge things a bit as I think we are the only sport now where percentage wise you can amass more points than their opponents but still be on the loosing side.

[The White Knight]

Not read all this so sorry if the obvious has already been stated.

It's a money saving thing. Before a top liner came out giving the fans a chance to see him in action again, even if it was a mismatch of a race. The problem was he needed paying start and points money.

 

The new rule does fudge things a bit as I think we are the only sport now where percentage wise you can amass more points than their opponents but still be on the loosing side.

 

Good point. :approve:

[John Ernest Holland]

I REALLY DONT LIKE IT WHEN THEY USE IT IN THE WORLD CUP FINALS THE TV ANNOUCER GOES INTO OVERDRIVE HYPING UP WHAT IS A PATHETIC RULE THE EQUIVALENT IN FOOTBALL WOULD BE THE LOSING TEAM BRINGING ON 2 EXTRA PLAYERS

[The White Knight]

I REALLY DONT LIKE IT WHEN THEY USE IT IN THE WORLD CUP FINALS THE TV ANNOUCER GOES INTO OVERDRIVE HYPING UP WHAT IS A PATHETIC RULE THE EQUIVALENT IN FOOTBALL WOULD BE THE LOSING TEAM BRINGING ON 2 EXTRA PLAYERS

 

Exactly the same in League Meetings.

[BWitcher]

I don't accept your assertion that you are correct. Away and bore somebody else with your inane ramblings, I'm done reading them...

 

Live in ignorance, no skin of my nose. If you're not adult enough to accept when you are wrong, so be it. It's obviously escaped your attention that many others on the thread have also confirmed you were wrong.

 

 

The new rule does fudge things a bit as I think we are the only sport now where percentage wise you can amass more points than their opponents but still be on the loosing side.

 

I understand what you mean, but its not strictly true. A number of sports where you can amass more pts/games/Legs however you want to call it and still lose.

[pandorum]

 

More often than not a top rider was brought in against lesser riders.. so Heat 8 for example was turned from a race with very likely 4 fairly evenly matched riders (2nd string and reserves) to a race with a no 1 in it. Thus creating the situation you complain about.

It sure is lucky that we don't get that sort of situation in todays EL speedway due to the excellent standard of riders on show in our top league

 

Joking aside. The top leagues still use the old 6 points behind tac sub rule and it seems to work there. Denmark uses both and that seems to work.

My reason for disliking it is it favours the team with a top heavy side such as Poole who actually will find themselves having someone to use and benefit when it comes to being the required number of points adrift.

Whereas usually when it happens to a team without riders like Ward and Holder to call upon they are left contemplating who to give the TR ride to and sometimes have to wait until their top man becomes available and by this time are even further adrift.

The old 6 pointsd behind tac sub rule was fairer as it allowed a team to make an instant response. This T/R rule does not allow that.

[msc1874]

 

 

Live in ignorance, no skin of my nose. If you're not adult enough to accept when you are wrong, so be it. It's obviously escaped your attention that many others on the thread have also confirmed you were wrong.

 

 

 

I understand what you mean, but its not strictly true. A number of sports where you can amass more pts/games/Legs however you want to call it and still lose.

 

 

I can't be wrong as I stated an opinion. It's an opinion. You have difficulty in accepting that. That is arrogance on your part. I don't need anybody else to tell me I am right or wrong. You are obviously a very insecure person that you need other people to back up your opinions and beliefs. I am not asking you to agree, but you seem unwilling to accept what I say telling me I am wrong. In your opinion I am wrong. This is what debate and conjecture is, you cannot grasp this which says more about you than it does about me to be perfectly honest.

 

I will come on here and disagree and agree with people. But you cannot tell somebody that they are wrong? Because you say so...I respect you right to disagree but I will not accept you persistently shooting down my views and opinions and calling them "wrong" get off your high horse.

 

Maybe we will never agree..but I respect your right to have an opinion and will never call it wrong. I can agree to disagree but you seem to be unable to move on unless I back down on my views. I won't do that. But honestly you need to step back a bit and not expect everyone to agree with your view..