PHILIPRISING Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Perhaps Mr Rising can clarify how other riders competing in Poland managed to return to the UK on Monday ? MY understanding is that they were stranded in Munich, en route from Poland, by problems with Lufthansa caused by strikes. Furthermore can he cite incidences in other European Speedway leagues where it has been officially permitted to postpone fixtures on the day, because of riders being unavailable due to travel difficulties ? No other country has the problems caused my multiple race-nights like the UK which requires many riders to fly in and out often on consecutive days. IMO if any club employs several riders who are involved in tight travelling schedules, then they must be aware of such potential risks. They are but, yet again, it is the fans who suffer and whose interests must be paramount. Rather than cancel the fixtures in these circumstances, when it becomes apparent that scheduled riders will require to be replaced by junior riders, clubs should be obliged to publicise the situation immediately, including making patrons aware of the situation before they pay at the turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irk Deflector Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) There is no facility for calling off meetings in these circumstances. My question was: should there be? From the outset of this discussion I did point out this was not solely about BV on Monday. The answer is "Yes"! and it ins't solely about BV on Monday or simply calling off meetings it's about the structure and governance of Speedway! Edited May 2, 2013 by Irk Deflector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 NO, it was entertaining. Monday night's fare from Brandon was boring. I have plenty of mates, non regular speedway goers, who like watching on Sky. All of them turned-over Monday but loved Tuesday's offering from Scunthorpe. Make of that what you will. It was a speedway meeting where one side dished out a beating to another. That's not 'ripping the fans off'. What are you suggesting, it should be staged so it's more exciting? Its a sport, big wins happen. I fail to see how it can have any relevance to the stunt Belle Vue pulled. The answer is "Yes"! and it ins't about solely about BV on Monday or simply calling off meetings it's about the structure and governance of Speedway! It would open up a whole heap of trouble and be open to abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 in this modern era of the internet there are plenty of ways of informing the fans of team line ups etc. for the locals you could put a sign outside the turnstiles informing the public what riders are missing, they can then decide whether to enter the stadium or not. reading did this a few years ago when the then world champion erik gundersen failed to appear for cradley. it did not stop me attending the meeting. if i had travelled all the way to manchester on monday, i would rather have watched a match with weakened line ups than no speedway at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Maybe for occasions were no legitimate facility can be granted then an alternative could be for a guest facility (or R/R) with an agreed percentage deduction prior to the start. In the case of a rider unable to get to the track perhaps allow a guest in the usual way with 60% (or whatever %)of his score removed. Vary the percentages for other absences. At least the fans get to see a meaningful match with reasonably matched riders but no incentive for teams to manipulate a situation. Just an idea on the hoof. maybe totally unworkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ommer Mon Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Maybe for occasions were no legitimate facility can be granted then an alternative could be for a guest facility (or R/R) with an agreed percentage deduction prior to the start. In the case of a rider unable to get to the track perhaps allow a guest in the usual way with 60% (or whatever %)of his score removed. Vary the percentages for other absences. At least the fans get to see a meaningful match with reasonably matched riders but no incentive for teams to manipulate a situation. Just an idea on the hoof. maybe totally unworkable I agree with Old Ace to a large extent.The show must go on and in these exceptional circumstances surely some kind of dispensation could be allowed for a guest or guests. Rather than a % deduction on the score though knock something off the allowable average so a 9 pointer could only be replaced by a 7.5. Daft as they appear to have been, the Aces have only done this because the rules gave them very little option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irk Deflector Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 It would open up a whole heap of trouble and be open to abuse. Indeed it would and that's why it'd need good independent governance. It would need to be by exception, with no fault attributed to the riders, evidence they have done everything possible to get to the track etc. An independent adjudicator would then decide. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 What I don't fully understand is why Belle Vue would want it off? They have been riding well of late and Poole have been well below standard, so one assumes that will turn around in the coming weeks, so I would have thought Poole would be there for the taking at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 What I don't fully understand is why Belle Vue would want it off? They have been riding well of late and Poole have been well below standard, so one assumes that will turn around in the coming weeks, so I would have thought Poole would be there for the taking at the moment. Without Zagar, Zetterstrom and Mrozca and no facility for the first two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Indeed it would and that's why it'd need good independent governance. It would need to be by exception, with no fault attributed to the riders, evidence they have done everything possible to get to the track etc. An independent adjudicator would then decide. An independent adjudicator is a fantastic idea in principle but, in a sport that appears already to be sinking under the burden of costs, talking about adding even more is unlikely to find favour with the promoters. Who would take this responsibility and administrative overhead? How would they be funded? Edited May 2, 2013 by Tkdandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I understand what you are saying but I did mention exceptional circumstances. Riders caught in an airline strike or other circumstances outside their control are hardly guilty of not trying or worthy of a fine. Many riders are commuting in and out of the country all the time and these things can and do happen. An independent judicator (yes, that again) could be charged with making any decision after being afforded all the facts. But I go back to the paying public... what would they rather happen? These are the people who actually matter and who are currently voting with their feet by staying away in their droves. A basic principle of good business is (or at least should be) that the customer is always right. Thus if your train when is cancelled you are depending on it is of no importance why it was cancelled, the rail company gets a fine from the Rail Regulator, end of. If you go to Tesco's and they are out of bread the customer is not concerned why there is no bread he just goes off to Sainsbury's or Asda and gives then his custom. In the context of BV they have advertised a speedway meeting that was cancelled for an illegitimate reason and the customer should not have to suffer the consequences. Either they waive their right of league points and have a challenge match with guests at reduced admission, or they get use PL riders to fill the gaps again at reduced admission or work out something for the fans (what they do is their problem) but the cardinal sin in any business is to fail to provide the product at the appointed time, and action has to be taken to make sure matches are not cancelled on a whim less than 4 hours before the advertised start time in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) I was taught that honesty is the best policy in the long run.... I remember turning up at Arlington many years ago to find Match Off signs due to Hackney being shorn of riders ..at least there was no attempt to deceive. also, Where a heat leader is going to be absent from either team then the home team website should advertise this clearly in advance. If the absence is not known until within 24 hours of the start time then the admission price on the day should automatically be reduced. Even by a £1 per heat leader this would pay for itself in Cust Sat benefits i'd have thought. A simple risk assessment by the BSPA regarding monday tracks being at the mercy of flight delays from Poland should have flagged this years ago. Whatever minimum quality of service threshold is in place that EL promotionshave to meet as a condition of holding a licences is clearly not set high enough. ..does the Rye House promoter still think there's nothing wrong?..words fail me.. Edited May 2, 2013 by Mike.Butler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Agreed- but in all seriousness would any promotion advertise along the lines of "we're fielding 2 juniors and R/R instead of 3 of our best riders" and honestly expect many paying customers? Totally agree with the ethics but it'd be financial suicide. Financial suicide or not Belle Vue should have taken it on the chin and done the best they could in the circumstances. Honesty is generally always the best policy, I wouldnt mind betting Gordon wishes he had now although past experience of SCB findings doesn't fill me with confidence that they will get it right either Whatever minimum quality of service threshold is in place that EL promotionshave to meet as a condition of holding a licences is clearly not set high enough. ..does the Rye House promoter still think there's nothing wrong?..words fail me.. I think breathing is the only requirement needed to get a promoters badge, judging by some of those currently in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Think I am going to get no response to my email sent to BV can't believe they won't reply and send me a free Jason Lyons keyring I was looking forward to it and thought it would be a cheap price for them to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Maybe for occasions were no legitimate facility can be granted then an alternative could be for a guest facility (or R/R) with an agreed percentage deduction prior to the start. In the case of a rider unable to get to the track perhaps allow a guest in the usual way with 60% (or whatever %)of his score removed. Vary the percentages for other absences. At least the fans get to see a meaningful match with reasonably matched riders but no incentive for teams to manipulate a situation. Just an idea on the hoof. maybe totally unworkable No disrespect pal but this would make speedway look dafter than it does already. It's like a football team bringing on a sub and his winning goal only counting half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 No disrespect pal but this would make speedway look dafter than it does already. It's like a football team bringing on a sub and his winning goal only counting half. Possibly, just throwing ideas about thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Possibly, just throwing ideas about thats all I know, maybe we should just go back to guest riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Should have gone with a squad system as Matt Ford suggested ages ago!!! If a promotion had to replace their top riders at short notice with other members of the squad (assuming they are in the country), then the match should go ahead and they should charge a reduced admission fee! Simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Will this thread be discussed in the Speedway Taverna on Wonderful Radio Five One this Friday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Where's Margaret Thatcher when you need her? She would sort things out more so than Mr Suave! She would just shut it, its north of Watford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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