Belle Vue Aces Vs Poole Pirates 29/4/2013

[Tsunami]

I can recall reading article that specified the BV management needed to find £1 Million to fund the stadium, the rest being part funded by Man city and by a regeneration scheme led by the local council.

 

I thought the whole project was fully funded by various bodies and that BV had agreed to pay a large lease for it. On another thread a figure of £75k per year for 25 years was mentioned in the agreement as to how much they had to pay.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Tsunami

[hyderd]

Nothing against the BV fans, but i hope you finish bottom.

 

Ditto Poole

 

that wasn't the question tho was it

 

so whos funding the new stadium ???

 

Like I said, you know naff all, now do us all a favour and take your silly snips about B Vue back to your play ground.

[Skyjack2]

Although it could have been worded better, I am fairly sure that it means one team (outside of Belle Vue) shouldn't benefit more than another, ie Poole would have if they were awarded four points. Belle Vue have been deducted three points as a punishment, presumably as the SCB have decided there was a contravention of the rules. I do however, think it would be sensible for the reasons behind any decision to be released.

 

I have read them, and all I can see is someone throwing accusations about 'bringing the sport into disrepute' about some tweets, attempting to detract from the FACT that BV have been punished. I'm sure he realises that Howarth and Tungate were at Kirkmanshulme Lane and so saw first hand the issue. Who knows why the SCB sent a referee to inspect, maybe it was because of a Poole complaint based around what the riders said, maybe when they were informed of why it was cancelled they pre-empted a complaint. Really though, does it matter as long as the right decision is reached when someone breaks the rules? After all:

 

Do you genuinely believe that it was a coincedence that there was a leak, on the same day BV would have been forced to run with three pointers in place of Zagar and Zetterstrom, in addition to R/R for Mroczka? Any mention of what riders' were tweeting is just a diversion from the issue.

 

Edit to add link to MEN:

http://www.mancheste...-docked-3860372

 

Look at the picture in that article. Zagar is in Eastbourne kit at BV.

 

The article has been written by someone who doesn't 'know' speedway or they would not have used an 'editorially' inaccurate picture.

 

The part about 'admission' is not in "quotation marks" so it's an assertion/asumption by the journalist not taken from an official SCB statement.

 

 

Mancester Evening News said:

 

Belle Vue chiefs David Gordon and Chris Morton appeared in front of the SCB committee on Tuesday afternoon and pleaded guilty for wrongly postponing the meeting, after admitting the riders’ absence.

Do you genuinely believe that it was a coincedence that there was a leak, on the same day BV would have been forced to run with three pointers in place of Zagar and Zetterstrom, in addition to

R/R for Mroczka? Any mention of what riders' were tweeting is just a diversion from the issue.

 

 

I was not aware of this confession by D G, if indeed this is true then the fine is justified, as for needing to be baby sat for calling future meeting off and being deducted 3 pts then all I see is a president being set by the SCB to deduct points and baby sit other teams that call meeting off in dubious circumstances. And I still recon Holder is no more than a s***stirer for posting misleading photo's

 

The Poole riders Tweets created an issue and I don't think there's been a confesion regarding wrongdoing other than calling the meeting off before the referee arrived to make the decision.

 

Let's face facts.....this isn't the first, and I'll wager it won't be last meeting called off under dubious circumstances.

 

The difference this time was that Messrs Gordon and Morton were so useless and incompetent that they got caught doing it. By publicly admitting their deception, their reputation and that of Belle Vue has, as others have said, been left in tatters.

 

There will be many who think with a fine of £5,000 and the deduction of three points, they have got off rather lightly.

 

Check your facts. What did they admit to exactly?

 

Clubs and the authorities (and some of the more naive members of this forum) have to understand that social media and technology these days makes it much easier and quicker to bring information to other peoples' attention.

 

Even more significantly, it also makes it massively easier for true information to reach the public even if someone's trying to block off that information from their particular angle.

 

The MEN report quoted a few posts above says Gordon/Morton admitted their riders' absence to the SCB

 

As far as I'm aware, 4 days after they met the SCB, they've yet to admit that absence to their own team's supporters (or indeed, the travelling Poole fans) through either their club website or by directly addressing those fans via the MEN or other local media - perhaps that'll be done at Monday's meeting (preferably via both the programme and an announcement over the speakers).

 

But they can't even be bothered to re-print the SCB statement on their own website where there remains just the one sentence mentioning they're disappointed with the decision and considering an appeal.

 

What a bone-headed way to cope with their disgrace of being miserably unable to cheat (and judging by what proved to be that false MEN report last Saturday, they're also probably miserably unable to brief the local media correctly when trying some damage-limitation).

 

I go back to a view I put forward many pages ago in this thread - I find it ridiculous that anyone sensible within speedway believes Gordon/Morton are the right people to be involved in the development (and in due course, the running) of a national speedway stadium.

 

I'd love to see a national stadium designed for the sport so that we could have extra Grand Prix or other international meetings in this country and it's a good idea to build it right next door to a well-established venue in a big city like Manchester.

 

But based on what happened on that Monday afternoon nearly 3 weeks ago plus all the various stages since then, those two clowns in charge of Belle Vue at the moment shouldn't have anything to do with a national project when they can't even run their own club in a proper fashion.

 

The bit in bold italics Mr Cross is exactly why this story has blown up. The absence of any quote from Neil Middleditch or Matt Ford is quite unprecedented.

 

I think it's possible certain people with an interest in speedway didn't expect the NSS to get this far and now they're worried that the balance of power in British speedway is about to shift in favour of Manchester, if the NSS goes ahead and ends up at Kirkmanshulme Lane Gorton, Manchester.

 

With a World Cup and an SGP in Manchester Poole's nose would be seriously out of joint as the 'centre' of British speedway, at one very southern end of the UK.

 

 

Nothing against the BV fans, but i hope you finish bottom.

 

That comes as no surprise to any of us who have any idea about what's really going on.

 

When you look at the product and the stories that surround speedway, the self interest of certain individuals who have benefited disproportionately, says a lot about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes.

 

David Gordon's company built Manchester United's training ground at Carrington. He understands development and construction and Chris Morton MBE is a speedway 'personality'. They both genuinely love speedway and The Belle Vue Aces. If you take the NSS away from them out of spite and jealousy you deserve all you get and you know who you are.

 

The defence rests.

[arthur cross]

Rarely can this forum have ever suffered a more ridiculously paranoid post than Skyjack2's lame effort above.

 

I'll have one last go at stating my position as clearly as possible ...

 

Would I like a National Speedway Stadium ? - Yes

 

Would I like it next door to Belle Vue's existing home track ? - Yes, given that it's then clearly in a place where speedway's already known which must be an advantage especially when nowhere else seems to have wanted to create a national stadium for the sport.

 

Would I let Gordon/Morton anywhere near it ? - No, given this wretched saga landing so heavily on top of all the other problems the club seems to have stumbled through during their leadership.

 

By the way, although I've attended at least one meeting at nearly every current track in this country (just one exception), I've attended both Poole & Belle Vue only once apiece - I was a shade disappointed by Poole compared to what I'd anticipated while Belle Vue was as ordinary as I expected.

 

And (in the hope this might remove some of Skyjack2's paranoia), if you check the Belle Vue v Lakeside thread for the Aces' next home meeting, you'll see I've taken the trouble to explain and defend Belle Vue landing in the awkward situation of that match clashing with Matej Zagar's GP-qualifier in Germany by using some background information that any journalist worth that job-title ought to find handy not just in this case but for future reference as well.

Edited May 18, 2013 by arthur cross

[Brujas Espanolas]

 

Check your facts. What did they admit to exactly?

 

 

 

 

They admitted to postponing the meeting without just cause. Hence the fine and points deduction.

 

That's what they officially admitted to, although in the end Gordon & Morton had to acknowledge that they were so useless that couldn't postpone a meeting at their own track without getting caught.

 

I can fully understand the argument that their ineptitude to manage recent events, calls into question their ability to manage something so important as the National Speedway Centre.

[Steve0]

Yes - get a fine and a 3 point deduction for doing absolutely nothing wrong. That's why they pleaded guilty

 

Drop a cog and skyjack2 - are you for real or are you just on the windup?? If you are on the windup then you are doing a great job - otherwise I think you will be digging your hole for days to come!!

[Kester]

I've wondered the same - are they trolling or idiotic?

[Starman2006]

Ditto Poole

 

 

 

 

 

That ain't gonna happen...

[arthur cross]

 

Which of the current set of promoters, who haven't got the nous to even build a national speedway stadium in a small provincial town, would you want to run it instead?

 

 

I wouldn't be in a rush to name any particular other promoter(s) to run a national speedway stadium.

 

More significantly, I'd argue it's not that they "haven't got the nous to even build" it ... instead, I'd reckon a good few of them have weighed up the costs, planning restrictions and anticipated usage of a national stadium and worked out that they're going to struggle to recoup the set-up costs for their preferred location, hence they've reluctantly decided it isn't a high priority for them because they'd like to build one if the sport's finances permitted it.

 

It would be wonderful if we could build a British version of what was created at Gorican in Croatia a few years ago but getting the location, planning permission and noise permission all brought together successfully for that ambition is going to be an almighty task for anyone over here.

[Starman2006]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That comes as no surprise to any of us who have any idea about what's really going on.

 

When you look at the product and the stories that surround speedway, the self interest of certain individuals who have benefited disproportionately, says a lot about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes.

 

David Gordon's company built Manchester United's training ground at Carrington. He understands development and construction and Chris Morton MBE is a speedway 'personality'. They both genuinely love speedway and The Belle Vue Aces. If you take the NSS away from them out of spite and jealousy you deserve all you get and you know who you are.

 

The defence rests.

 

Er, excuss me, what is that supposed to mean?. I certainly have nothing against Manchester having a National stadium, and i don't doubt for one minute, that Dave Gordon and Chris Moton love their speedway, i can go back to when Chris Morton was riding, and beyond, and have asked him the question, why he never became World Champion, because he beat everybody who was anybody at one point, but the way all this was handled was a totally pathetic.

[Nellie]

Look at the picture in that article. Zagar is in Eastbourne kit at BV.

 

The article has been written by someone who doesn't 'know' speedway or they would not have used an 'editorially' inaccurate picture.

 

The part about 'admission' is not in "quotation marks" so it's an assertion/asumption by the journalist not taken from an official SCB statement.

 

Ah, thanks for explaining that for everyone. Maybe you could explain why the author of the article makes the claim:

Half of the Aces fine will be suspended for 18 months, with the SCB recommending that the club asks Zagar and Zetterstrom to contribute to the fine.

The SCB were unable to fine the riders directly as a meeting did not take place.

Quite a specific assertion to fabricate. Presumably BV will contact the MEN to complain about these inaccuracies, so I look forward to you posting a link to the retraction. Until then, please forgive me for giving the paper the benefit of the doubt over you.

[Nellie]

 

Are you for real

 

According to orion (and several others) last week the MEN printed a report that there was no further action.

 

So to be clear, you are giving the MEN the benefit of the doubt, lol!

Come on, think about it. Where/who do you think the MEN are getting their information from? If you think they're making it up, please explain why. Where do you think the earlier press release came from, and why?

 

If you're struggling ask Skyjack, he's apparently a journalist. People tend to use the media to their own advantage, much as I suspect he has been doing on this thread.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Nellie

[arthur cross]

Are you for real

 

According to orion (and several others) last week the MEN printed a report that there was no further action.

 

So to be clear, you are giving the MEN the benefit of the doubt, lol!

 

In my view (and I suspect the majority will agree), on this occasion (and despite the previous weekend's report), yes I am giving the MEN the benefit of the doubt because it is mentioning several very specific outcomes of the SCB decision that appear very unlikely to have been fabricated

 

Also, as I've pointed out earlier, Belle Vue themselves have yet to post on their own website any details from the SCB beyond the one sentence expressing the club's disappointment at the decision and their consideration of an appeal ... even if they disagree with their various punishments, they can't hope to rebuild their tattered image until they start referring to the current existence of those punishments.

 

Last weekend's rogue report from the MEN has all the hallmarks of a non-speedway reporter being spun (and reporting in good faith) duff information from somewhere.

 

By far the prime suspects for spinning that duff info would have to be anyone closely connected with being in trouble from any SCB investigation ... hence (regrettably), it points back to anyone closely connected with Belle Vue because it's hard to come up with any alternative source who would want to peddle that type of duff info.

 

It's now 20 days since the controversial postponement but beyond the briefest of official apologies (without any attached new details of reasons or excuses) a couple of days after that postponement, the Belle Vue Aces as a club have spectacularly and continually failed at the vital task of damage-limitation.

[BWitcher]

Look at the picture in that article. Zagar is in Eastbourne kit at BV.

 

The article has been written by someone who doesn't 'know' speedway or they would not have used an 'editorially' inaccurate picture.

 

The part about 'admission' is not in "quotation marks" so it's an assertion/asumption by the journalist not taken from an official SCB statement.

 

 

 

The Poole riders Tweets created an issue and I don't think there's been a confesion regarding wrongdoing other than calling the meeting off before the referee arrived to make the decision.

 

 

 

Check your facts. What did they admit to exactly?

 

 

 

The bit in bold italics Mr Cross is exactly why this story has blown up. The absence of any quote from Neil Middleditch or Matt Ford is quite unprecedented.

 

I think it's possible certain people with an interest in speedway didn't expect the NSS to get this far and now they're worried that the balance of power in British speedway is about to shift in favour of Manchester, if the NSS goes ahead and ends up at Kirkmanshulme Lane Gorton, Manchester.

 

With a World Cup and an SGP in Manchester Poole's nose would be seriously out of joint as the 'centre' of British speedway, at one very southern end of the UK.

 

 

 

 

That comes as no surprise to any of us who have any idea about what's really going on.

 

When you look at the product and the stories that surround speedway, the self interest of certain individuals who have benefited disproportionately, says a lot about the reality of what goes on behind the scenes.

 

David Gordon's company built Manchester United's training ground at Carrington. He understands development and construction and Chris Morton MBE is a speedway 'personality'. They both genuinely love speedway and The Belle Vue Aces. If you take the NSS away from them out of spite and jealousy you deserve all you get and you know who you are.

 

The defence rests.

 

There is no defence, you are doing nothing but heaping further embarassment onto Belle Vue Speedway and are quite simply a disgrace to the club you perport to support.

 

As for your ludicirous paranoid accusations regarding Poole... remind me how many bricks they bought again?

Edited May 19, 2013 by BWitcher

[hyderd]

The problem here lies with social media, before social media we would be discussing this with our mates in the local pub and slagging off other teams/promoters and in a few short days it would be all water under the bridge, of course now we have social media and fans meet via this wonderful internet and the slagging is now done in public. Nobody likes other fans slagging off their team/promotion and will of course defend to the bitter end.

 

I would guess that B Vue and the SCB have not released any more info to us the fans for a reason, which they wish to be known to them and them alone until such time as they deem fit.

 

B Vue have apologised for calling off the meeting when in hindsight they should not off, my guess is that any more info is hidden in the above line.

[oldace]

I've wondered the same - are they trolling or idiotic?

 

Do you have to ask?

[Kester]

Nobody likes other fans slagging off their team/promotion and will of course defend to the bitter end.

 

 

 

Not quite true. If Birmingham pulled a similar stunt I'd have slagged them off. Aces51, one of the most vociferous BV supporters on here, condemned the actions of the promotion - and fair play to him for doing so. It's only a few on here posting nonsense in a vain attempt to defend the indefensible.

[Starman2006]

Not quite true. If Birmingham pulled a similar stunt I'd have slagged them off. Aces51, one of the most vociferous BV supporters on here, condemned the actions of the promotion - and fair play to him for doing so. It's only a few on here posting nonsense in a vain attempt to defend the indefensible.

 

They made a rod for their own backs. They brought it on thereselves,and have nobody else but to blame but themselves. Still, you live a learn, don't you...

Edited May 19, 2013 by Starman2006

[hyderd]

Not quite true. If Birmingham pulled a similar stunt I'd have slagged them off. Aces51, one of the most vociferous BV supporters on here, condemned the actions of the promotion - and fair play to him for doing so. It's only a few on here posting nonsense in a vain attempt to defend the indefensible.

 

Ok we will leave it there.

[Starman2006]

Ok we will leave it there.

 

Thought you might!!!