Message To The Leicester Promotor

[arthur cross]

The problem with this proposal is the amount that DH would want to rent the stadium weekly in excess of 8k a week just to open the gates then you would have the refs fees,paramedics,ambulance and officials fees that is before you pay a rider

 

I fully respect flagrag's good reputation for well-connected and accurate information on many other threads on this forum so I'm certainly not questioning the accuracy of whether any new promotion at Leicester could face a weekly rent of £8,000

 

Instead, I'll simply point out that such a figure is massively in excess of the weekly rent any other British track pays its stadium landlord (and that includes the Elite League) ... it wouldn't be fair on other clubs to reveal what any of them are currently paying but I suspect every one of them would seriously consider if it's worth remaining open (probably most of them would close down at once) if they were suddenly faced with so big a demand for weekly stadium rent.

 

To put it into context, the reported financial figurework for Belle Vue's new national stadium involves the Aces effectively renting the track by repaying an initial £4,500,000 building loan from Manchester City Council over 60 years.

 

If the council loan is interest-free and the Aces staged just the basic 14 home meetings in the Elite League each year, their rent would be costing them £75,000 per year so that would work out at approximately £5,350 per meeting to rent a stadium designed to a high enough standard to host a World Cup final or other FIM events ... that rent might also include a cut of the profits from food, drink and the car park.

 

I suspect Belle Vue's rent bill would also include some interest payments on top of that simple calculation of £75,000 per year ... but equally, they'd be looking to stage more meetings than just the basic home league schedule so effectively those extra meetings would be the ones whose rent covered any interest (and any showpiece meetings attracting bigger crowds would make a cut of the food/drink/carpark profits even more useful)..

 

Hence it could still be reckoned that somewhere around £5,350 for a shiny new World Cup stadium would be one of the starting-points for working out how much rent to charge elsewhere (although even that big an amount with some food/drink profits to offset it would still be way out of reach for most clubs) ... on that basis, good luck finding anyone queuing up to offer £8,000 rent every weekend just to get the front gate open at Leicester !!

 

I suspect the current promoter is finding it tough to keep up the repayments on any loans that were taken out to finance the building of the stadium a few years ago and so the pressure from those repayments has led him towards wanting such a high weekly rent from any new promoter ... however, he'll have to take a giant chunk out of that £8,000 before making any progress.

 

By the way, is that £8,000 "the price with VAT" or "the price without VAT" ? !! ... because that might be another £1,600 that needs stumping up.

Edited August 15, 2013 by arthur cross

[TMW]

There is a couple of interested parties in buying the promoting rights and speedway side of Leicester but in the current fiancial climate do not want to take on the whole complex which is quite reasonable as would be huge investment.

If these persons could just buy the rights and then pay Hemsley stadium rent like most clubs do I believe that there is decent money to be made at Leicester with the correct people involved and promotion of the club. The problem with this proposal is the amount that DH would want to rent the stadium weekly in excess of 8k a week just to open the gates then you would have the refs fees,paramedics,ambulance and officials fees that is before you pay a rider

 

What would 8K, per week, entitle you to? 1 meeting ? unlimited access?

Edited August 15, 2013 by TMW

[flagrag]

The figure I quoted was the rough cost I had been told of and that was just for one meeting a week. I agree that sort of rent is totally unaffordable and out of context but that is DH point it is his toy and does not want anybody else to play with it. So with all the bad feeling and upset there is a section of fans some who attend others that don't due to variety of issues with the current promotor. These people would like him to go but quite obviously he does not wish to do so his only option is to make the rental of the stadium so costly it is not viable for investment. He knows that he will only get a fair market value for the promoting rights before the bspa step in and say stop trying to rip off buyers as the club has little rider asset base , as not in their interest to see new owners pay way over the top for the rights and will not want to lose a club with Leicesters support and stadium. Any new promotion would also need to have a licensed promotor as buddy/baby sitter for the first season unless they kept Alan Jones involved which in my mind would be a brilliant idea as a true fan with good principles.

So unless there is a businessman out there looking to lose or right off money from other areas there is little chance of new promotion at Leicester. I would have a guess that DH would look at offers of around 1million to take it totally off his hands taking into consideration the stadium and the future use of land for sub letting and development

[wandersome]

What would 8K, per week, entitle you to? 1 meeting ? unlimited access?

 

a straight jacket?

[arthur cross]

Thanks flagrag for your latest post backing up your earlier news about the prospective rent for the stadium.

 

At least DH's valuations/demands all seem to be so stupidly wide of being realistic that he's digging his own downfall with very little room for sympathy from anyone that matters.

 

For some dreadful reason, he appears to always think that reviving speedway in Leicester guarantees himself immunity from any criticism ... yes, he deserves plenty of thanks for the revival but it's horrible to see/hear about so many hassles behind-the-scenes when plenty of them could clearly be solved with just a little bit of diplomacy.

 

As flagrag points out, any new promoter coming into Leicester would need to be overseen by a nearby promoter as a "buddy" for the first season ... indeed, that's what happened with Sheffield providing the "buddy" help for DH's first season as well as the first-ever opposition at the track.

 

However, DH's attitude to some of that help was poor ... in one case, it could have been regarded as a lot worse than that but for the sake of this forum's future and in respect of this country's libel laws, I doubt I can explain further on here.

[TMW]

Thanks flagrag for your latest post backing up your earlier news about the prospective rent for the stadium.

 

At least DH's valuations/demands all seem to be so stupidly wide of being realistic that he's digging his own downfall with very little room for sympathy from anyone that matters.

 

For some dreadful reason, he appears to always think that reviving speedway in Leicester guarantees himself immunity from any criticism ... yes, he deserves plenty of thanks for the revival but it's horrible to see/hear about so many hassles behind-the-scenes when plenty of them could clearly be solved with just a little bit of diplomacy.

 

As flagrag points out, any new promoter coming into Leicester would need to be overseen by a nearby promoter as a "buddy" for the first season ... indeed, that's what happened with Sheffield providing the "buddy" help for DH's first season as well as the first-ever opposition at the track.

 

However, DH's attitude to some of that help was poor ... in one case, it could have been regarded as a lot worse than that but for the sake of this forum's future and in respect of this country's libel laws, I doubt I can explain further on here.

 

It's not him that makes them public it's people finding out and finding it in their interest to make them public and possibly stick a bit of enhancement on to boot. There are people who hate him with a passion, rightly or wrongly and, wont rest until he has gone !!!!!!! I am one of the people who goes because it is there maybe I am wrong maybe I should make him court my custom but I don't see why.

 

and.....

 

Looking at tonight's result DH has a higher authority on his side than just the BSPA the rain came down and the 4 points were gained. That 1 point could be vital when it comes down to it against the other contender for the playoff's

Edited August 15, 2013 by TMW

[1 valve]

By the way, is that £8,000 "the price with VAT" or "the price without VAT" ? !! ... because that might be another £1,600 that needs stumping up.

[/quot

If it was a full repairing lease i.e. new tenant being responsible for maintenance then there would be no need for VAT to be charged as the default setting is that VAT is not charged on transactions involving land and property.

 

However I think people are missing the point that DH very more than likely has no wish to sell or give up the promoting of the club hence he is quoting what appears to be high prices.

 

I say "appears to be" because 1m for a 99 year lease (I guess 96 now) maybe is not bad value when one considers inflation and the future benefits to be gained over that period. And of course is a way lower cost then the Belle Vue project which incidently the promoters of the Aces will not own as the complex will be run/owned by private equity.

 

As an example of inflation in speedway: Admission prices for my first visit to Blackbird Road in 1969 (equivalent to 50p) rose by 400% to £2.50 by the time speedway closed in 1983 and now 30 years later £15.00 represents an increase of 500% (average 16% per year) on the 1983 price.

 

So even if we use the current much lower inflation rate of 2.5% on a compounded rate in 32 years time (1/3 of the lease) we can expect to be paying at least £32.50 at each meeting which of course would increase the value of the lease. Therefore as in all similar cases DH is quoting nett present value rather than just today’s value in order to reflect the future value of the product he owns i.e. the lease and speedway organisation that didn’t previously exist!

e]

[wandersome]

By the way, is that £8,000 "the price with VAT" or "the price without VAT" ? !! ... because that might be another £1,600 that needs stumping up.

[/quot

If it was a full repairing lease i.e. new tenant being responsible for maintenance then there would be no need for VAT to be charged as the default setting is that VAT is not charged on transactions involving land and property.

 

However I think people are missing the point that DH very more than likely has no wish to sell or give up the promoting of the club hence he is quoting what appears to be high prices.

 

I say "appears to be" because 1m for a 99 year lease (I guess 96 now) maybe is not bad value when one considers inflation and the future benefits to be gained over that period. And of course is a way lower cost then the Belle Vue project which incidently the promoters of the Aces will not own as the complex will be run/owned by private equity.

 

As an example of inflation in speedway: Admission prices for my first visit to Blackbird Road in 1969 (equivalent to 50p) rose by 400% to £2.50 by the time speedway closed in 1983 and now 30 years later £15.00 represents an increase of 500% (average 16% per year) on the 1983 price.

 

So even if we use the current much lower inflation rate of 2.5% on a compounded rate in 32 years time (1/3 of the lease) we can expect to be paying at least £32.50 at each meeting which of course would increase the value of the lease. Therefore as in all similar cases DH is quoting nett present value rather than just today’s value in order to reflect the future value of the product he owns i.e. the lease and speedway organisation that didn’t previously exist!

e]

 

I wouldn't have thought he owns anything of that value though 1 valve. I would have thought the value of the lease is also governed by what can be used within the constaints of the lease and the amount of work required to show a return on your investement. I'd not be sure the relative value of the rubble mountains is actually considerably less that when DH started building them.

Edited August 16, 2013 by volty

[1 valve]

I wouldn't have thought he owns anything of that value though 1 valve. I would have thought the value of the lease is also governed by what can be used within the constaints of the lease and the amount of work required to show a return on your investement. I'd not be sure the relative value of the rubble mountains is actually considerably less that when DH started building them.

Volty, you are absolutely right the value of the lease would be governed by what you can do with the facility concerned and personally, I have no insight into the scope of the lease in question. If it also does cover the outlying (& ever expanding) mud mountains then absolutely current and future values will be effected in consideration of any cost required to make those areas of use for other activities.

 

My presumption is that the current promotion would sell all of its business interest i.e. the company, inclusive of Speedway license, lease and all other assets. Is that worth 1m? Well, it is if someone wishes to pay it and of course the current owner wants to sell and frankly I think the answer to the latter is a no, and I can understand why that is the case given that after 3 years DH must feel he is making progress with the project and wants to see it continue as a successful business under his stewardship.

[jim the whipper]

I don't think there is a 99 year lease to sell at the moment , Lionsden who was a party of the original planning permission etc, said full planning will only be granted if certain conditions on the complex are met after 3 years , very little has changed since the gates opened apart from Mount Beaumont has got higher which I'm reasonably sure was not part of the original plan . the City Council are non too pleased with whats happened at BP according to sources from within it , so in March 2014 would anyone be that surprised to see the council who were very supportive initially do a U-turn when the planning permission comes up for it's 3 year review

[1 valve]

I don't think there is a 99 year lease to sell at the moment , Lionsden who was a party of the original planning permission etc, said full planning will only be granted if certain conditions on the complex are met after 3 years , very little has changed since the gates opened apart from Mount Beaumont has got higher which I'm reasonably sure was not part of the original plan . the City Council are non too pleased with whats happened at BP according to sources from within it , so in March 2014 would anyone be that surprised to see the council who were very supportive initially do a U-turn when the planning permission comes up for it's 3 year review

Mount Beaumont just about sums the situation up...Clear as mud.

 

Is it known if the City Coucil expected DH to be reponsible for developing the other none speedway activities as originally percieved i.e. football & BMX type sports or was it down to LCC to seek other partnerships?

[robert72]

Mount Beaumont just about sums the situation up...Clear as mud.

 

Is it known if the City Coucil expected DH to be reponsible for developing the other none speedway activities as originally percieved i.e. football & BMX type sports or was it down to LCC to seek other partnerships?

 

I am surprised the council allow dumping on there to be honest plus what an eyesore it looks now.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post a succesful buisness ? is this what you believe when they seem to be missing equiptment to do the track ?

 

Also has mr darcy took his sponsorship out of the club,I hear it was a good sponsorship package for the lions and thats why he became a promotor,If this is the case that is sad for the club.

[jim the whipper]

Mount Beaumont just about sums the situation up...Clear as mud.

 

Is it known if the City Coucil expected DH to be reponsible for developing the other none speedway activities as originally percieved i.e. football & BMX type sports or was it down to LCC to seek other partnerships?

I believe as the other projects floundered ,David Hemsley took them on to save the deal defaulting and having to go back to square one with with PP for speedway only . maybe Lionsden will come on here and fill us in with the facts or maybe not !!! anyway last word from me on it before the rose tinted come on with their accusations of hidden agendas and personal grievances

[BTFC LION]

Prior to Leicester speedway getting the go ahead, I attended 1 of the public meetings held in Beaumont area. At that meeting were the local city council rep, a rep from a company called Pro 5, [ 6 a side football courts,] a person from the body who wanted to build a velodrome. Also the promoter from Kings Lynn. They were all positive at the time about building a sports complex!! As I was part of a local football club at the time, who had around 300 young players, the reps were all keen to get our support to help them to gain planning permission. Pro 5 offered us reduced rates etc in return for us sending out a message to our community that the whole scheme would be of great benefit to the whole area.We were very keen to try and get some sort of benefit for our club as we were about to loose the grass area were we trained our young players on Sat mornings, also where the car park is now there was 2 floodlit 5 a side courts, the only ones in the area that we could use in the winter months for training. After the planning permission was granted, that is when things started to fall apart as far as I understand it. Pro 5 were bought out by Goals, so our agreement went down the drain, so to speak. It is my understanding is that Goals would not commit a large amount of money to a project at the time due to the fact it was only a 99 year lease, they also have a centre less than 5 miles from Beaumont, that at the time was not doing so well? As for the velodrome, I believe one has been built in Derby at a cost of around 5 million pounds. So why would they need another at Beaumont? The Kings Lynn promoter spoke of setting up an education centre at the track to work with troublesome teenagers, don't know what happened to him or his idea?? So to sum up, if all these 3rd parties were not interested in investing in the area? What can DH do?? Or more to the point what can he do now, or who does he approach to invest in the area around the speedway stadium??

[wandersome]

When Dave Darcy was doing the track 'alterations' in february or whenever it was, i can't remember the time other than knowing it was just before Glyn Taylor was supposed to be doing them properly, i spoke to DH about what was going on with the complex and he told me he had taken over the whole project and that BMX tracks for the local yute etc were going to be happening. As much landscaping as has happened, and there has been a considerable amount, i've still seen nothing that resembles a BMX track.

 

Re BTFC's comments, I'm fairly certain that DH would have been untimately responsible for all these investments groups being on board when the council agreed the complex and if the i's hadn't been dotted and t's weren't crossed with these investment groups then it's a bit rich to make out he's a victim of circumstance because everyone buggered off at the first sign of trouble.

Edited August 17, 2013 by volty

[1 valve]

i

i spoke to DH about what was going on with the complex and he told me he had taken over the whole project and that BMX tracks for the local yute etc

Thank for the feedback jim, BTFC & volty. It Seems like DH has took on more than he bargained for in terms of other sports being found to complete the designated complex. If I remember correctly the guy from Kings Lyn was being touted as the potential promoter for Leicester, or was he going to be DH mentor? Anyway the project was delayed for a full year due to the non speedway parties not being able to sign up so I guess the missing piece (from my side) is at what point did DH get involved and did the LCC only agree for the speedway project to commence if DH agreed to take on the responsibility for establishing other sporting uses for the remaining areas.

 

It is a shame Beaumont Town lost their facilities and maybe the LCC should step in with some seed corn funding and the club or other such body pursue lottery funding as per Aylestone Park and similar clubs have done in the past

Edited August 17, 2013 by 1 valve

[BTFC LION]

When Dave Darcy was doing the track 'alterations' in february or whenever it was, i can't remember the time other than knowing it was just before Glyn Taylor was supposed to be doing them properly, i spoke to DH about what was going on with the complex and he told me he had taken over the whole project and that BMX tracks for the local yute etc were going to be happening. As much landscaping as has happened, and there has been a considerable amount, i've still seen nothing that resembles a BMX track.

 

Re BTFC's comments, I'm fairly certain that DH would have been untimately responsible for all these investments groups being on board when the council agreed the complex and if the i's hadn't been dotted and t's weren't crossed with these investment groups then it's a bit rich to make out he's a victim of circumstance because everyone buggered off at the first sign of trouble.

 

Can I ask why you think DH would be responsible for all the investment groups? He was a local person who wanted speedway, not a national company or organisation like the others. It looks to me that all the other parties were all in favour of the project, and this was a major reason the council agreed to the plan, but for what ever reason decided to pull out, you can not force people to part with money if what ever is on offer in the end does not match what they wanted or required.

 

i

 

Thank for the feedback jim, BTFC & volty. It Seems like DH has took on more than he bargained for in terms of other sports being found to complete the designated complex. If I remember correctly the guy from Kings Lyn was being touted as the potential promoter for Leicester, or was he going to be DH mentor? Anyway the project was delayed for a full year due to the non speedway parties not being able to sign up so I guess the missing piece (from my side) is at what point did DH get involved and did the LCC only agree for the speedway project to commence if DH agreed to take on the responsibility for establishing other sporting uses for the remaining areas.

 

It is a shame Beaumont Town lost their facilities and maybe the LCC should step in with some seed corn funding and the club or other such body pursue lottery funding as per Aylestone Park and similar clubs have done in the past

 

Beaumont only trained on the field in order to save the pitches from being messed up, the club never had ownership of the field the stadium stands on now, it was just open land next to our ground. The floodlit courts were part of the leisure centre, we used to hire them in the winter, so I guess as we just hired them we did not have any real rights to ask for anything? Beaumont were part of the same lottery project as Aylestone park, we got a brand new club house, which is fantastic. The LCC have no money, Sorry to go on about footy on a speedway forum, but just trying to give a reply. PS.I am no longer at Beaumont fc so am not privy to any info regarding any future links with the speedway club.

[wandersome]

Can I ask why you think DH would be responsible for all the investment groups? He was a local person who wanted speedway, not a national company or organisation like the others. It looks to me that all the other parties were all in favour of the project, and this was a major reason the council agreed to the plan, but for what ever reason decided to pull out, you can not force people to part with money if what ever is on offer in the end does not match what they wanted or required.

 

Whilst i accept i don't have a clue as to the in and outs of the lease can i ask how was he allowed to tip waste on the whole site from day 1 with the deal from Maxi Waste If he wasn't ultimately responsible for the whole site. This seems to have happened irrespective of the whether investment groups were on board and as far i was aware isn't the whole site not in the name of Beamont Sports Complex ltd, a company owned by David Hemsley. It's only last year when he saying he was taking control of the whole site because investors hadn't come through on their side of the deal but at no point since the site's inception has he not appeared to be doing waste tipping or something on most of the site which would point to these investments areas being in BSC's control and not the council. I'm not saying i'm right but on the evidence of these two points alone i'm struggling to see how this happened if he wasn't ultimately in charge of the whole site from day 1.

Edited August 17, 2013 by volty

[neb]

Whilst i accept i don't have a clue as to the in and outs of the lease can i ask how was he allowed to tip waste on the whole site from day 1 with the deal from Maxi Waste If he wasn't ultimately responsible for the whole site. This seems to have happened irrespective of the whether investment groups were on board and as far i was aware isn't the whole site not in the name of Beamont Sports Complex ltd, a company owned by David Hemsley. It's only last year when he saying he was taking control of the whole site because investors hadn't come through on their side of the deal but at no point since the site's inception has he not appeared to be doing waste tipping or something on most of the site which would point to these investments areas being in BSC's control and not the council. I'm not saying i'm right but on the evidence of these two points alone i'm struggling to see how this happened if he wasn't ultimately in charge of the whole site from day 1.

what does it matter why worry dont let it take over your life like it seems to be doing as long as its not costing you money then dont make it a concern just go to speedway like i do and watch and if your not happy then dont come back next year simples,go and watch football if you cant do that then buy the frigging club if you cant do that then shut up or put up. you seem to have all the answers put your money where your mouth is.

Edited August 17, 2013 by neb

[robert72]

Any thoughts that DH could of upset these people and they pulled out because they couldn't work with him.

I gather there were a number of fall outs with speedway people before a wheel was turned

Edited August 18, 2013 by robert72