Phil The Ace Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/national-speedway-stadium-belle-vue-6937202 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/national-speedway-stadium-belle-vue-6937202 OH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 OH!!! Still believe? The way this is going it will cost Aces fans £40 a meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/national-speedway-stadium-belle-vue-6937202 Good to see some positive news for a change With all the gloom and doom surrounding famous stadiums the likes of Coventry, Oxofrd and Wimbledon, it's good to see that Manchester's council are investing in speedway along with all their other sports. Hats off to them...maybe other local councils should take a trip up north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pedaler Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) Meanwhile the cost of building the new National Speedway Stadium in Belle Vue has risen by £1.3m. The rise is mainly due to a covenant covering part of the land, it has emerged, meaning the entire stadium footprint has had to be moved to the centre of the Kirkmanshulme Lane site instead. Council officers had been unaware of the covenant, imposed by the previous owners of the Existing greyhound track. The council will borrow the most of the extra cash itself, to be repaid by tenants Belle Vue Aces over the next 24 years. They will pay the ‘maximum’ possible rent over that period in order to minimise the council’s risks, says the report. So does this mean that the existing Kirky Lane stadium has to get bulldozed in order for the new Kirky Stadium to be built on "the centre of the Kirkmanshulme Lane site"? Try doing that during one winter! Sounds like the Aces might have to either take a year out or go upmarket, somewhere like Stoke perhaps for their home meetings. Edited April 8, 2014 by The Pedaler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Good to see some positive news for a change With all the gloom and doom surrounding famous stadiums the likes of Coventry, Oxofrd and Wimbledon, it's good to see that Manchester's council are investing in speedway along with all their other sports. Hats off to them...maybe other local councils should take a trip up north. Struggling to see much positives in that. Belle Vue have to find an extra £1.3m on top of there existing £4.5m to be claimed back in rent over 60 seasons. £97,000 per year in rent alone. 5,000 paying customer to cover the rent per year. By the time this gets started these costs will keep increasing as land and building costs are on the rise once again. This needs to be rubber stamped very quickly, at the latest by the end of this season or this will just be a complete waste of time and money for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 So does this mean that the existing Kirky Lane stadium has to get bulldozed in order for the new Kirky Stadium to be built on "the centre of the Kirkmanshulme Lane site"? As I understand it, the new complex was being built with the speedway stadium occupying the end of the site closest to the Greyhound stadium (literally the other side of the pits wall). But because of the covenant on the land which the Greyhound stadium stands, the new stadium can't be built that close, so the stadium is being shunted a few yards further up the road towards the middle of the new site (i.e. a few yards further away from the dog track). Struggling to see much positives in that. Belle Vue have to find an extra £1.3m on top of there existing £4.5m to be claimed back in rent over 60 seasons. £97,000 per year in rent alone. 5,000 paying customer to cover the rent per year. By the time this gets started these costs will keep increasing as land and building costs are on the rise once again. This needs to be rubber stamped very quickly, at the latest by the end of this season or this will just be a complete waste of time and money for all involved. You seem to misunderstand. You're just picking out figures and doing your own wrong, over simplified, calculations on them. Don't worry about the numbers, just understand that the council have approved extra funding (the majority of which is for the Sports Science Institute a few miles away) and things are now back on track. After the problems with the covenant it's all systems go again, and the new stadium is on its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) Screamers figures look right to me. We're told it's going to cost £5.8m to build what frankly, is a glorified Peterborough (an open stand on one straight and some banking the rest of the way around!). 5.8m over 24 years as mentioned in the article. Thats 240k a year. Or at £20 entry 12000 fans a season. When you consider Coventry City were offered the Ricoh for £100,000 Coventry should move in there and stick a sign above the door that says "National Speedwat Stadium". It's light years ahead of the drawings for the Manchester National Speedway Stadium and will cost half as much in rent! edit > Hell, the Ricoh Arena is only valued at £6.4m. Less than half a million more than the BV stadium! Edited April 8, 2014 by SCB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Screamers figures look right to me. We're told it's going to cost £5.8m to build what frankly, is a glorified Peterborough (an open stand on one straight and some banking the rest of the way around!). 5.8m over 24 years as mentioned in the article. Thats 240k a year. Or at £20 entry 12000 fans a season. When you consider Coventry City were offered the Ricoh for £100,000 Coventry should move in there and stick a sign above the door that says "National Speedwat Stadium". It's light years ahead of the drawings for the Manchester National Speedway Stadium and will cost half as much in rent! edit > Hell, the Ricoh Arena is only valued at £6.4m. Less than half a million more than the BV stadium! Holy sh!yte you're right. I based my numbers on the original statement of leasing over 60yrs. When did 24yrs first appear? That's outrageous number's Fact, Belle Vue will go seriously bust in super quick time if they run with this venture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Screamers figures look right to me. Well they're not. And neither are the figures in the newspaper article. They're confusing the cost of the Belle Vue sports village with the cost of the stadium (which is only part of the village). Try downloading the council report. Costs have increased by £750k which is covered in the revised business plan. It's all systems go now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 As john Leslie says. We only need to find an extra 750k not 1.4 million Whoever wrote the article did not do a good job Scb said it's a glorified Peterborough. It's a bit better than that mate. The stand has rooms for weddings/party's etc. And a place for ppl to sleep. Plus ignore the original print of the designed stadium as it as now significantly changed and a new design will be released in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local Boy Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 If a government or a local council want something to be done they will carry the risk and the money will be found. Generally they worry about how they will recoup the outlay afterwards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Previously, it's been reported that the Aces would need to payback a £4.5-million stadium-building loan over 60 years ... hence, the calculation of £75,000 "rent" per year even though it would actually be a loan repayment to the city council rather than the usual concept of paying rent to a landlord. Yesterday's Manchester Evening News report explains that the Aces will also now have to repay most of the extra £1.3-million the council needs to borrow to build this stadium ... but, crucially, says this extra repayment will cover just 24 years instead of the previously reported 60 years ... hence, a calculation of £50,000 "extra rent" for the first 24 years would produce £1.2-million which would fit the description of the Aces paying back most of these extra costs of £1.3-million. [ EDIT: If it's just an extra £750,000 that the Aces have to find over 24 years, as John Leslie reports, then that's roughly £30,000 extra per season. ] So by my reckoning, that means the Aces will be paying back about £105,000 a season until roughly 2040 (£75,000 plus £30,000) and then the previously reported £75,000 a season until the mid-2070's ... that's a hefty burden in itself but here's a further question about the costs of the whole project. Who pays eventually for the general upkeep of the stadium once it's built ? ... while the council may well provide the initial funding to guarantee such upkeep, will they require the Aces to repay "most" of those costs as well along the same lines as repaying "most" of these extra building costs ? ... suddenly, even £105,000 a season might still look an understatement. And still no mention of any planning-hearing dates within that Manch-Evg-News report (just the sorting-out of the extra finance) with time already fast running out for having any new stadium ready for the start of the 2015 season, never mind any original aim (as reported by the Manch-Evg-News on 9-Feb-2012 of starting to build it that summer, depending on planning permission, so that it could host the 2013 World Cup Final). I remain willing to be proved wrong but, for the time being, I'm staying sceptical about this whole project working out well for the Aces and speedway in general. Edited April 9, 2014 by arthur cross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 How much do you reckon we pay in rent now? We currently get nothing from the bars and food outlets and can make no money from functions or other stadium uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Isn't the current rent in the region of £2K per meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Isn't the current rent in the region of £2K per meeting? 3.5k per meeting. Which is about 66k a year rent we pay now. any late call offs we still have to pay rent so that figure will be higher. We don't get food or drink revenue so it's not to much difference Edited April 9, 2014 by Phil The Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Crikey! £3.5K for Kirky Lane sounds like daylight robbery! So if I've got my facts right, and assuming no additional interest payments are payable, based on hosting 25 home meetings per season the promotion would incur only £750 per meeting additional cost. To offset this there would be the extra revenue streams (parking, food, etc) and undoubtedly an increase in supporters. Pretty sure a new stadium would see crowds increase by more than 100. Sounds like an absolute bargain if/when it actually happens! EDIT: hosting 20 home meetings would result in £1,750 extra cost per meeting or the equivalent of around 130 extra paying adults. Still, with potential savings on rain-offs and the aforementioned revenue streams this still doesn't sound like a daunting amount. As Arthur says the big question mark is over the stadium upkeep. Edited April 9, 2014 by Tkdandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Screamers figures look right to me. We're told it's going to cost £5.8m to build what frankly, is a glorified Peterborough (an open stand on one straight and some banking the rest of the way around!). 5.8m over 24 years as mentioned in the article. Thats 240k a year. Or at £20 entry 12000 fans a season. When you consider Coventry City were offered the Ricoh for £100,000 Coventry should move in there and stick a sign above the door that says "National Speedwat Stadium". It's light years ahead of the drawings for the Manchester National Speedway Stadium and will cost half as much in rent! edit > Hell, the Ricoh Arena is only valued at £6.4m. Less than half a million more than the BV stadium! I wonder how much rent is a Brandon, it cant be a million miles away from 100k. If this new stadium for BV is 66k rent a year it shouldnt be a problem especially if its similar to what they are paying now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur cross Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Crikey! £3.5K for Kirky Lane sounds like daylight robbery! Totally agree with that assessment !! Any speedway clubs renting a track in a Greyhound Racing Association stadium have had to put up for many years with far higher rents than other greyhound landlords have been charging ... historically (and quotes from Wimbledon Stadium general manager Keith Hallinan proved this week it's still the case), the GRA haven't been impressed with speedway's profitability and have therefore chosen to fleece as much rent off the clubs as possible rather than budgeting for any profits from speedway fans buying the stadium's food & drink. Wimbledon certainly had to pay above-average rent while they were still going and I seem to remember Oxford saying their rent rocketed in their final years .... I suspect Birmingham may well still be in a similar situation. I've been to Kirky Lane only once (and that was just over a decade ago although I gather there's not been much investment in the facilities since then) so I can't really accurately suggest a fair price for the rent ... but I'd reckon anything over £2,500 would start to be expensive, never mind if it's actually £3,500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The article should not have been published and Please ignore and refraim from posting anything about it until an official announcement has been made via the council or belle Vue speedway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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