Belle Vues National Speedway Stadium

[John Leslie]

Periods of no news a year without a single post on it's FB page and no information whatsoever except how to buy a brick is definitely worrying.

Was the 10th April 2013 really a year ago?

 

 

(well the last post on their facebook page was actually today, but the last post about a major stadium development was 10/4/13....not quite a year ago)

[nw42]

Was the 10th April 2013 really a year ago?

 

https://www.facebook...314097678717428

 

(well the last post on their facebook page was actually today, but the last post about a major stadium development was 10/4/13....not quite a year ago)

 

Oh come on that's unfair, April 10th just has no sort of ring to it whatsoever, you've completely ruined the notion of it being a whole year since a post, what right do you think you have to come on here spouting the truth?

 

I hope you're pleased with yourself.

[pandorum]

Oh come on that's unfair, April 10th just has no sort of ring to it whatsoever, you've completely ruined the notion of it being a whole year since a post, what right do you think you have to come on here spouting the truth?

 

I hope you're pleased with yourself.

 

Let's not get on our high horses here as I looked at it a couple of days ago and the last post was June 2012 that I could find.

I did not look too closely I admit but that's what I saw and what I commented on.

 

https://www.facebook...314097678717428

And to be honest that was not what I saw. I followed a link from the website and that page had June 2012

Not a Facebook person so I hold my hands up and say I was wrong I admit it.

 

Still does not alter the fact that the website is there to sell bricks and not promote or inform about the national stadium or is there some other website I missed hidden in the site somewhere that is full of information and brick free in which case i will again admit to my error.

Edited July 25, 2013 by pandorum

[Gemini]

To become a Baffle Bank I believe - to reduce the noise for the Speedway's neighbours.

 

A Baffle Bank - that's a new one. Have you been to Leicester and seen them? If the mounds were purely to reduce noise they would be put round the stadium not a mile away. Well, it seems like a mile when walking from the shopping centre car park but it's probably not that far.

[mikec]

Don't point your finger at me.

I simply question it's viability and the reason why it's only official prescence on the internet is there simply to sell expensive bricks.

I would love speedway tracks to sprout up all over the country with brand new stadiums but that's not likely.

 

I worked in the industry that builds this kind of thing and have seen so many projects go exactly like this.

Further consultation, cooling off periods, redesigns then quietly dropped.

 

Periods of no news a year without a single post on it's FB page and no information whatsoever except how to buy a brick is definitely worrying.

 

Simply by virtue of their non internet prescence it shows that whoever is running the show does not know his/her arce from his/her elbow.

 

I don't point the finger at anyone Pandorum, for the most part on this Forum I read the views of the people on here & say little. When I feel a series of posts on a subject which matters to me are insinuating "a scam" or lack balance i.e. are all negative without the full facts to hand, then I may respond, to whoever has made them, in this case you AND others. You are more than entitled to your opinion (as am I) & raise concern at the lack of progress on the new stadium - not to mention the complete lack of recent feedback from the promotion, on that we agree. Projects far larger than the "tin shed" project (your words) have gone down the tubes without trace, on that we agree too. The BV promotion seem to struggle at times with the concept "we've no fresh, concrete news to feed back to the fans - but at least tell them that!" Silences, that are on the face of it nearly a year long, are bound to cause speculation & doubt, as is the case now. I think they DO know their arses from their elbows, but their PR needs improvement.

Why not it happens all the time with these kinds of things.

 

 

I don't think anyone wants it to fail but simply want to discuss the project like adults.

[The White Knight]

A Baffle Bank - that's a new one. Have you been to Leicester and seen them? If the mounds were purely to reduce noise they would be put round the stadium not a mile away. Well, it seems like a mile when walking from the shopping centre car park but it's probably not that far.

 

No - I haven't been to Leicester Speedway Gemini. I am sure I read somewhere that the mounds of soil/mud, when there is enough of it, will be smoothed and landscaped in to a bank that will help prevent noise becoming a problem to the Club's neighbours.

[pandorum]

I don't point the finger at anyone Pandorum, for the most part on this Forum I read the views of the people on here & say little. When I feel a series of posts on a subject which matters to me are insinuating "a scam" or lack balance i.e. are all negative without the full facts to hand, then I may respond, to whoever has made them, in this case you AND others. You are more than entitled to your opinion (as am I) & raise concern at the lack of progress on the new stadium - not to mention the complete lack of recent feedback from the promotion, on that we agree. Projects far larger than the "tin shed" project (your words) have gone down the tubes without trace, on that we agree too. The BV promotion seem to struggle at times with the concept "we've no fresh, concrete news to feed back to the fans - but at least tell them that!" Silences, that are on the face of it nearly a year long, are bound to cause speculation & doubt, as is the case now. I think they DO know their arses from their elbows, but their PR needs improvement.

Why not it happens all the time with these kinds of things.

Of course you did. You said people here wanted the project to fail without having any knowledge of why they posted whtever they posted. What else is that but pointing the finger.

You don't know me from Adam and have not the first clue what I think in regards to the success or failure of this project.

As you say we can all respond to who we want about what we want. That is the purpose of discussion.

But lets not brand each other with labels just because some of us are not sticking to the BSPA hymnsheet and bringing up awkward questions.

 

What are the full facts?

There are none really except some council minutes that say wait for further information.

That's the problem with this.

 

Nobody talks about this thing. SKY and the BSPA were telling us that it was gonna be there for the 2012 SWC, but it wasn't, so surely fans have a right to discuss the thing without people branding them as negative?

And in fairness I meant that they DIDN'T know their their arses from their elbows, when it came to communications based on what I saw. It's not my fualt I don't understand Face Book

But several posters on various discussions have expressed this very view regarding the people tasked with bringing this to fruition. I have no knowledge of them myself, except for Chris Morton as a speedeway rider,so would not comment on their financial competency or otherwise.

 

And it is a tin shed. It's a nothing construction project. Six months work if that. It's value to speedway is immense but let's not think it's some kind of major project.

 

And the website does look like a scam. It sells bricks at 49 quid a pop.

That is it's only purpose.

It's FAQ section has 8 questions all brick buying related. I would imagine there are several thousand more questions than that which are in peoples minds other than 'should I buy a brick or a paving slab'.

 

I do hope it succeeds as it seems to me speedways last best hope. But I have seen bigger and better projects than this just vanish at the stroke of someones pen. And that sadly is how it looks to me.

Hopefully I am so very wrong but the discussion should continue here as surely that is the purpose of the place

[The White Knight]

Actually there is a very good Post by 'hyderd' on the Belle Vue 2013 Thread in the Elite League Section. Post Number 1563. Perhaps this will silence all the doubters.

 

But then again - knowing some on this forum - perhaps not..................................... :sad:

[Grand Central]

Thanks for the link TWK that does take us through to a very welcome statement from the Belle Vue promotion.

It certainly does give a much clearer, and understandable, picture of the current position.

 

In the light of the doubts surrounding the Swindon redevelopment and this weeks momentary panic about Brandon it is really good to read.

 

 

.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Grand Central

[Humphrey Appleby]

Thanks for the link TWK that does take us through to a very welcome statement from the Belle Vue promotion.

 

Although all it does it confirm what we've already worked out on here. Don't see any mention of dates when construction will start, or even when planning permission is expected, and that's the key issue.

[The White Knight]

Although all it does it confirm what we've already worked out on here. Don't see any mention of dates when construction will start, or even when planning permission is expected, and that's the key issue.

 

As I said before Humphrey - these things take an age. Let's all just be PATIENT.

[SCB]

As I said before Humphrey - these things take an age. Let's all just be PATIENT.

Don't you find it at least a tiny bit of a co-incidence that when ever people have a moan/ask questions on here about the stadium the club give us an update though? It does to their credit mean they're listening to the fans though, fair play.

[Grand Central]

Although all it does it confirm what we've already worked out on here. Don't see any mention of dates when construction will start, or even when planning permission is expected, and that's the key issue.

 

It clarifies all the points about exactly what stage they are at right now and exactly who is doing what.

The speculation that a planning application had already been submitted is corrected

And the role of Architects and others in the developing of that still-to-come application is clarified.

And I'm sure that is greatly appreciated by all of us who ALL want the project to succeed.

 

It now makes a hell of a lot more sense.

Lets hope it all happens speedily, now.

When it gets to the right stage I will be buying a bloody brick myself!

 

.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Grand Central

[MattK]

As I said before Humphrey - these things take an age. Let's all just be PATIENT.

 

I think the biggest mistake was announcing the plans far too early.

 

Most developments don't get media coverage until the master plan is complete or even they have been submitted for planning permission. However, they have only just started working on the master plan and it looks as if planning permission will be applied for towards the end of the year or early next year.

 

As you said, lots of patience required.

[Aces51]

There was an article in the programme for the Swindon match on the 8th July, 2013 informing fans that ISG had been appointed. My recollection is that the plans were only announced when they were because the Manchester Evening News leaked the story.

[The White Knight]

There was an article in the programme for the Swindon match on the 8th July, 2013 informing fans that ISG had been appointed. My recollection is that the plans were only announced when they were because the Manchester Evening News leaked the story.

 

If that is true - then you can hardly blame the Promotion for that.

[mikec]

Of course you did. You said people here wanted the project to fail without having any knowledge of why they posted whtever they posted. What else is that but pointing the finger.

You don't know me from Adam and have not the first clue what I think in regards to the success or failure of this project.

As you say we can all respond to who we want about what we want. That is the purpose of discussion.

But lets not brand each other with labels just because some of us are not sticking to the BSPA hymnsheet and bringing up awkward questions.

 

What are the full facts?

There are none really except some council minutes that say wait for further information.

That's the problem with this.

 

Nobody talks about this thing. SKY and the BSPA were telling us that it was gonna be there for the 2012 SWC, but it wasn't, so surely fans have a right to discuss the thing without people branding them as negative?

And in fairness I meant that they DIDN'T know their their arses from their elbows, when it came to communications based on what I saw. It's not my fualt I don't understand Face Book

But several posters on various discussions have expressed this very view regarding the people tasked with bringing this to fruition. I have no knowledge of them myself, except for Chris Morton as a speedeway rider,so would not comment on their financial competency or otherwise.

 

And it is a tin shed. It's a nothing construction project. Six months work if that. It's value to speedway is immense but let's not think it's some kind of major project.

 

And the website does look like a scam. It sells bricks at 49 quid a pop.

That is it's only purpose.

It's FAQ section has 8 questions all brick buying related. I would imagine there are several thousand more questions than that which are in peoples minds other than 'should I buy a brick or a paving slab'.

 

I do hope it succeeds as it seems to me speedways last best hope. But I have seen bigger and better projects than this just vanish at the stroke of someones pen. And that sadly is how it looks to me.

Hopefully I am so very wrong but the discussion should continue here as surely that is the purpose of the place

I actually said that I detected a desire from some forum members for the project to fail & asked to be enlightened. I got two or three replies, including yours, stating that this is certainly not the case. Fair enough, my question answered. I don't know you or what you think, the continually negative air running through your series of Stadium related posts intrigued me so I decided to question the undercurrent behind them. Judging by the tone of your last couple of replies I seem to have touched a raw nerve with you, that wasn't my intention. As for Dave Gordon & Chris Morton, their PR & feedback to the fans in terms of the project could be a lot better, I think in hindsight they would probably acknowledge that. I recall at the fans meeting at Kirky Lane in April they mentioned that their feedback in terms of protracted team building (no news on it for months - sound familiar?) could be better. One thing I can tell you about the pair of them is that they are approachable & will answer questions if they can. I spoke to Dave Gordon on Belle Vue related issues at Gorton Monastery at the Stadium launch, after the main presentation had ended. He called a spade a spade & didn't duck anything awkward that I asked him. Mort is a similar type from listening to him on a number of occasions. If you haven't seen the Belle Vue Sport Village PDF, which describes the scheme in detail, I'm sure me or someone else could happily forward it to you. Alternatively, you could email Dave Gordon or Chris Morton direct, as I have, with specific queries. You're right that discussion, be it positive or negative, is healthy & should continue on here. I'll read on with interest. To many people it's mainly a national stadium/training centre, which if it fails won't directly impact their club or their lives. For me & fellow Aces fans, if it fails Belle Vue is no more - fact. That prospect haunts all Aces fans. So if posts get a bit emotive or strong towards your so-far largely negative posts, just bear that fact in mind, it's not personal.

Edited July 26, 2013 by mikec

[oldace]

I actually said that I detected a desire from some forum members for the project to fail & asked to be enlightened. I got two or three replies, including yours, stating that this is certainly not the case. Fair enough, my question answered. I don't know you or what you think, the continually negative air running through your series of Stadium related posts intrigued me so I decided to question the undercurrent behind them.

 

Mike I was, still am very sceptical that this project will happen but rest assured no one will be more delighted if it does. Having followed the Aces for nigh on 50 years I will always have an affinity with them.

[mikec]

Mike I was, still am very sceptical that this project will happen but rest assured no one will be more delighted if it does. Having followed the Aces for nigh on 50 years I will always have an affinity with them.

Your scepticism is understandable Oldace, with the length of time it's dragged on & the long periods of no information being updated. I've been an Aces follower for 34 years & would like to add a few more years to it, as it's clear you would too. In my opinion the project is a no-brainer for the Gorton/Longsight/West Gorton area of East Manchester, as well as the wider community. The City Council Executive saw it that way a few months ago, hopefully their Planning Committee will shortly see it in the same light.

[manchesterpaul]

Hopefully - there's that word again - Belle Vue will employ the construction firm that is building Manchester City's training ground, as it looks like we are going to need the speediest builders in the land to have it ready in line with previous deadlines.

 

http://www.mancheste...w-citys-5373550

 

It does indeed when compared to the cost of Arsenal's Emirates Stadium which was £390 million.

Can the stadium use the title Belle Vue while the stadium next door also carries that title?

 

Most references on maps etc to the current stadium have 'Belle Vue Greyhound Stadium' so i guess 'Belle Vue National Speedway Stadium' is perfectly fine.

 

'Pandorum' many thanks for some excellent insight into the world of construction and contracts etc. but it leaves me with a question....Egads! man you sound like you've built half the country, you're either a very industrious worker or about 150 years old lol

 

Actually there is a very good Post by 'hyderd' on the Belle Vue 2013 Thread in the Elite League Section. Post Number 1563. Perhaps this will silence all the doubters.

 

We could really have done with that post being placed in this thread 'Belle Vue's National Speedway Stadium' than one titled 'Belle Vue 2013'! To save people having to wander all over the forum Hyderd's post reads....

 

After the torrid July on the track, some good news.

Building Contractor Confirmed For New Stadium

 

 

Taken from Belle Vue Aces official site:

 

Major construction services company ISG has be chosen to deliver the development of the Belle Vue Sports Village in East Manchester – transforming the area into a centre of sport and leisure excellence.

 

ISG, who will work with AFL Architects on the new facility, has been appointed as preferred contractor for the development through a competition tender via the North West Construction Hub (NWCH) and marks a major pre-planning milestone for the works.

 

Manchester City Council, in partnership with Belle Vue Aces and England Basketball, are now in the process of preparing the project’s planning application.

 

The £10 million development will look to become a unique sporting hub for the area, adding to the world class facilities that East Manchester is renowned – becoming the national home of Speedway and Basketball.

 

The proposals include a new National Speedway Stadium and National Speedway Academy – that will be the home of Manchester’s historic Belle Vue Aces team – a new 3G (all-weather) pitch, a new National Basketball Centre, new rugby pitch and high quality improvements to the existing fitness and leisure facilities.

 

The £4.5 million building costs for the new National Speedway Stadium will be initially funded by the city council. This loan will be repaid by Belle Vue Aces though an annual rent as part of the club’s lease agreement.

 

The purpose built, 6,500 capacity speedway venue, with potential for additional temporary seating for larger events, could be the first of its kind in the country – able to host not only national race meets, but as one of the best tracks in Europe will also compete with major speedway venues across the continent to host Grand Prix and World Cup events – which could attract up to 80,000 visitors each year to the city.

 

Belle Vue would also host a new National Speedway Academy, making Manchester a centre of excellence, encouraging grass roots development of new local speedway talent. In addition, the centre of the track will feature a new grass Rugby League pitch, for use by St Peter’s High School and the wider community.

 

A proposed National Basketball Centre, part funded by England Basketball, will include an extension to an existing sports hall to create a four court training centre that will also be suitable for a variety of national and international competition and events.

 

Although the focus will be basketball, the expanded hall will be available to the community for a variety of other sports.

 

The plans also look to replace two water-based synthetic hockey pitches with a more robust 3G pitch, reducing the high water requirements of the current surfaces, and providing a new facility suitable for football, hockey and multi-sports.

 

Cllr Jim Battle, Deputy Leader of Manchester City Council, said: “Every milestone towards Belle Vue Sports Village is a step closer to realising the potential of this area. Of course there is still some way to go – planning and beyond – but we welcome the experience of ISG to deliver the development in the future.”

 

ISG’s Alan McCarthy-Wyper, managing director – Construction, commented: “The creation of this purpose-built sports and leisure destination represents a major investment by the council in world-class facilities that will directly benefit the local community and generate major economic benefits for the city. We are delighted to be working closely with all key stakeholders to realise the vision of this important regional development.”

 

David Gordon, Belle Vue speedway's Chief Executive Officer, said: “We are delighted with this appointment, which is another significant step in the project's process. We are looking forward to working closely with ISG and the Project Management Team.”

Edited July 27, 2013 by manchesterpaul