Grand Central Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Are you sure about that? I thought MCC were funding the stadium with the club paying it back over 60 years. Whatever the funding though with the perilous state of the sport in this country the council are likely going to be left with a £6,000.000 white elephant long long before the money is repaid. I wonder if any Speedway promotion in the history of the sport has ever made the equivalent of £4.5M to £6M profit. I doubt that THF (and their predecessors) ever did that at the old Zoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I wonder if any Speedway promotion in the history of the sport has ever made the equivalent of £4.5M to £6M profit. I doubt that THF (and their predecessors) ever did that at the old Zoo. I genuinely detect a desire for the project to FAIL from several posters on this forum. It probably contributes to why so few Aces followers contribute on the BSF any more & stick to their own forum. Because the project has been delayed due to 12 months+ of additional consideration by MCC (confirmed by New East Manchester) & there have been periods of no news, contributors decide to fill in the blanks themselves. What would you negative speculators on here get out of the Belle Vue scheme failing? Some warped sense of satisfaction? Please enlighten me & other Aces fans as it would be interesting to know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I genuinely detect a desire for the project to FAIL from several posters on this forum. It probably contributes to why so few Aces followers contribute on the BSF any more & stick to their own forum. Because the project has been delayed due to 12 months+ of additional consideration by MCC (confirmed by New East Manchester) & there have been periods of no news, contributors decide to fill in the blanks themselves. What would you negative speculators on here get out of the Belle Vue scheme failing? Some warped sense of satisfaction? Please enlighten me & other Aces fans as it would be interesting to know. This is just typical of speedway. No news is the fans fault. Well maybe if the club/managment actually updated us it would not be an issue and nobody would speculate. But no, we can't possibly let the fans know whats going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I wonder if any Speedway promotion in the history of the sport has ever made the equivalent of £4.5M to £6M profit. I doubt that THF (and their predecessors) ever did that at the old Zoo. To be honest the way THF leisure ran the zoological gardens was the business model most speedway promoters would later follow. They spent zero on the grounds allowing them to deteriorate year on year believing the public would still come in their droves, paying the same, or more, for more and more substandard facilities. By the late 70s the grounds were an ancient relic of a bygone era, the crowds all gone never to return. Sound familiar!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 This is just typical of speedway. No news is the fans fault. Well maybe if the club/managment actually updated us it would not be an issue and nobody would speculate. But no, we can't possibly let the fans know whats going on! You're dead right SCB, the promotion should update us. Does that justify only negative speculation to fill the gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 What would you negative speculators on here get out of the Belle Vue scheme failing? Some warped sense of satisfaction? Please enlighten me & other Aces fans as it would be interesting to know. What on earth are you wittering about. If people express concern that this project seems unlikely then that means they dont want it to happen ? What an idiotic comment I would wager that not 1, not 1 single person on this forum wants this to fail and to a man would be delighted if it ever comes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 You're dead right SCB, the promotion should update us. Does that justify only negative speculation to fill the gaps? Possibly, possibly not. But the easiest way to stop it is to give the real information. People will always fill gaps when they're not given information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 The Council are borrowing from 'Prudential Borrowing' (what is this?) themselves so that it is not coming out of Council Revenues. Prudential Borrowing refers to the Prudential Code which all local authorities must by law adhere to for capital projects. Its all very complicated but basically it means that councils need to fund projects the cheapest way possible, and where possible the project should be self-funding over a period of time - i.e. the initial capital is repaid via revenues from the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) Possibly, possibly not. But the easiest way to stop it is to give the real information. People will always fill gaps when they're not given information. True. Be great to read positive speculation about the young British speedway talent that will be brought through on a facility available 7 days a week. Or the young apprentices who will gain skills & work through the classroom/workshop facilities on site etc etc...... all far too dull for many I know. Never gonna happen SCB I accept that. In amongst the doom I thought I'd offer an alternative angle.... Edited July 25, 2013 by mikec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I genuinely detect a desire for the project to FAIL from several posters on this forum. It probably contributes to why so few Aces followers contribute on the BSF any more & stick to their own forum. Because the project has been delayed due to 12 months+ of additional consideration by MCC (confirmed by New East Manchester) & there have been periods of no news, contributors decide to fill in the blanks themselves. What would you negative speculators on here get out of the Belle Vue scheme failing? Some warped sense of satisfaction? Please enlighten me & other Aces fans as it would be interesting to know. I forgot that golden rule relating to projects like this. Blind optimism helps immensely in bringing it to fruition. Whereas the airing of concerns, pragmatism and realism are always to be avoided. To be honest the way THF leisure ran the zoological gardens was the business model most speedway promoters would later follow. They spent zero on the grounds allowing them to deteriorate year on year believing the public would still come in their droves, paying the same, or more, for more and more substandard facilities. By the late 70s the grounds were an ancient relic of a bygone era, the crowds all gone never to return. Sound familiar!!!!! Oh, yes, you're quite right. I was actually referring really to the Speedway operation at Hyde Road in the almost 60 years it ran. We always called that The Zoo. Not the actual Zoo. That had, probably the best chance of being the most profitable Speedway operation in the Uk. But did it really ever bring in the level of earnings that are going to be required to pay off this debt now being taken on? Edited July 25, 2013 by Grand Central 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 True. Be great to read positive speculation about the young British speedway talent that will be brought through on a facility available 7 days a week. There's little point speculating before work on the place has actually started. I don't think anyone wants these sort of projects to fail, but how many times have fans been strung along by promises that never materialised (Reading and Swindon come to mind here)? The proposed Belle Vue development is undoubtedly well intentioned, but it's quite apparent the stated timescales were excessively optimistic, and some simple inquiries on the Internet reveal many of the necessary things have yet to be put in place. Given that this scheme is actively soliciting money from the public as well, I think it's entirely appropriate that pertinent questions are asked about when/if construction is actually going to start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Personally I may be tempted to buy a Brick. I would not even consider it until the construction of the proposed Stadium was under way. I am optimistic that the new Stadium will be built - BUT - I will wait and see. I do agree that there should be more information put in to the Public domain by the promoters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 There's little point speculating before work on the place has actually started. I don't think anyone wants these sort of projects to fail, but how many times have fans been strung along by promises that never materialised (Reading and Swindon come to mind here)? The proposed Belle Vue development is undoubtedly well intentioned, but it's quite apparent the stated timescales were excessively optimistic, and some simple inquiries on the Internet reveal many of the necessary things have yet to be put in place. Given that this scheme is actively soliciting money from the public as well, I think it's entirely appropriate that pertinent questions are asked about when/if construction is actually going to start. It isn't just the money though. Can the council justify giving over a piece of land to a speedway stadium that will attract 800 to 1200 people on approx 18 nights a year. Even as a speedway fan who would love it to happen In my heart of hearts this whole project seems far fetched 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 It isn't just the money though. Can the council justify giving over a piece of land to a speedway stadium that will attract 800 to 1200 people on approx 18 nights a year. Councils give over land to athletics stadiums that would be lucky to pull that sort of crowd on one night a year, and there are probably numerous other 'minority' sports that get similar sort of support. There is value in supporting community facilities and the fact they're even considering accommodating speedway can probably be taken as a positive, even if the figures seem a bit unrealistic as pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Councils give over land to athletics stadiums that would be lucky to pull that sort of crowd on one night a year, and there are probably numerous other 'minority' sports that get similar sort of support. There is value in supporting community facilities and the fact they're even considering accommodating speedway can probably be taken as a positive, even if the figures seem a bit unrealistic as pointed out. I am not aware of too many "Athletic Stadiums" being constructed in the past 10 years or so (Olympics excepted) Maybe plenty of land is used for Athletics but that is rather more aimed at participation than spectating. Even as a school field (and the school next door were given to believe it would be used as such) it would get much more use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 As the village is a multi purpose site, the chances of it being a "white elephant" as you put it are unlikely. Reminds me a bit of Leicester's great plans for their site but all that's happened in the three years after the speedway was built is a load of earth being dumped everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Reminds me a bit of Leicester's great plans for their site but all that's happened in the three years after the speedway was built is a load of earth being dumped everywhere. To become a Baffle Bank I believe - to reduce the noise for the Speedway's neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) What on earth are you wittering about. If people express concern that this project seems unlikely then that means they dont want it to happen ? What an idiotic comment I would wager that not 1, not 1 single person on this forum wants this to fail and to a man would be delighted if it ever comes off. I don't "witter" Oldace. I deal in facts & was asking a question in order to obtain an answer. Is that ok with you? I forgot that golden rule relating to projects like this. Blind optimism helps immensely in bringing it to fruition. Whereas the airing of concerns, pragmatism and realism are always to be avoided. I don't do blind optimism Grand Central, I do realism. And being an Aces fan there's not normally too much to be optimistic about, is there? Concerns, pragmatism & realism are all good, I detected a lack of balance i.e all negativity. Good to hear that goodwill abounds regarding the project. Hopefully we'll get an update from the promotion soon - on the need for that we're all agreed. Oh, yes, you're quite right. I was actually referring really to the Speedway operation at Hyde Road in the almost 60 years it ran. We always called that The Zoo. Not the actual Zoo. That had, probably the best chance of being the most profitable Speedway operation in the Uk. But did it really ever bring in the level of earnings that are going to be required to pay off this debt now being taken on? Edited July 25, 2013 by mikec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I genuinely detect a desire for the project to FAIL from several posters on this forum. Those people are going to be very disappointed very soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) I genuinely detect a desire for the project to FAIL from several posters on this forum. It probably contributes to why so few Aces followers contribute on the BSF any more & stick to their own forum. Because the project has been delayed due to 12 months+ of additional consideration by MCC (confirmed by New East Manchester) & there have been periods of no news, contributors decide to fill in the blanks themselves. What would you negative speculators on here get out of the Belle Vue scheme failing? Some warped sense of satisfaction? Please enlighten me & other Aces fans as it would be interesting to know. Don't point your finger at me. I simply question it's viability and the reason why it's only official prescence on the internet is there simply to sell expensive bricks. I would love speedway tracks to sprout up all over the country with brand new stadiums but that's not likely. I worked in the industry that builds this kind of thing and have seen so many projects go exactly like this. Further consultation, cooling off periods, redesigns then quietly dropped. Periods of no news a year without a single post on it's FB page and no information whatsoever except how to buy a brick is definitely worrying. Simply by virtue of their non internet prescence it shows that whoever is running the show does not know his/her arce from his/her elbow. There's little point speculating before work on the place has actually started. Why not it happens all the time with these kinds of things. Those people are going to be very disappointed very soon I don't think anyone wants it to fail but simply want to discuss the project like adults. Edited July 25, 2013 by pandorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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