Guests ! Why ?

[rob tatum]

IRIS 123 really sensible idea ,ward replaced by hancock sounds bloody good. But there lies the problem a really good idea but alas will never ever happen. Thanks to those that agreed with me thou.

[Bavarian]

How comes that only Britain needs this guest rider system, when Poland, Denmark, Sweden, Russia and all the rest can do without it?

 

Sorry, I can't agree with anyone telling me that this is a neccessary evil, it is certainly not neccessary.

 

Guest riders could only be accepted if they do not already ride in one of the same league's other teams. That means, a guest rider could only come from another league (Premiere league) or from another country / foreign league.

 

It is this current guest rider rule that more than anything else takes away all the credibility from the british speedway leagues in the eyes of the general sports public and media. Along with that golden double joker rule, this gives speedway the image of being just a fun event, a circus, a show, but not a real sport.

[rob tatum]

BAVARIAN -well said. That was a perfect post. Shame your not in charge.

[Bavarian]

I would also go so far as to doubt the loyality of any one of my team's riders when he accepts a guest booking for one of my rival teams in the league. The conflict of interests is obvious. This can't be accepted. The rider's loyalty has to be with his OWN club.

[OGT]

People have been complaing about the guest system for 50 years or more and it's still here.

That should tell you that there's no viable alternative.

My advice is get used to it.

[chunky]

People have been complaing about the guest system for 50 years or more and it's still here.

That should tell you that there's no viable alternative.

My advice is get used to it.

Getting used to it is one thing, but years ago, guests were NEVER used to replace any/all of a team's riders; it was reserved for heat leaders...

 

Steve

[Grachan]

People have been complaing about the guest system for 50 years or more and it's still here.

That should tell you that there's no viable alternative.

My advice is get used to it.

 

They didn't have guests in the 60s. When Barry Briggs got injured doing the outrageous thing of riding on the continent in 1967, Swindon had to use their number 8 in his place. And they still won the league.

 

I think the pool of riders for a number one who is injured would be ok. If none are available then use R/R.

 

If any other member of the top 3 is out then use R/R. (Sorry if this goes a bit "in my day blah blah blah").

 

Anyone else injured then use a number 8 or a junior.

 

Either scrap double uppers or have 2 for each position.

 

The guests thing is getting out of hand now. Teams are using guests already and the season only just started. When will the people realise that all they do every year is introduce things that annoy a few more people and thus make them give up on the sport while, at the same time, do nothing to attract new people in their place?

[Bagpuss]

He moaned about the number of meetings. HE is now taking on more meetings. So does eh want less meetings. Or more meetings to earn more? It's one or the other.

 

While I see your point I think taking the odd guest booking here and there when it suits him is a bit different to what he was referring to in the winter. For me when riders moan about too many meetings (and not all do) its when they have a schedule of 10-12 meetings in a fortnight or whatever across the three leagues and GP's.

 

If Puk was riding in Poland today, Sweden Tuesday, Lynn Wednesday and had a GP on Saturday I bet he'd have turned tomorrow night at Wolves down flat.

[guitar_art]

How comes that only Britain needs this guest rider system, when Poland, Denmark, Sweden, Russia and all the rest can do without it?

 

Sorry, I can't agree with anyone telling me that this is a neccessary evil, it is certainly not neccessary.

 

Guest riders could only be accepted if they do not already ride in one of the same league's other teams. That means, a guest rider could only come from another league (Premiere league) or from another country / foreign league.

 

It is this current guest rider rule that more than anything else takes away all the credibility from the british speedway leagues in the eyes of the general sports public and media. Along with that golden double joker rule, this gives speedway the image of being just a fun event, a circus, a show, but not a real sport.

 

Quite simply because they have more money than we currently do. So they are able to operate squad systems. That of course is the only answer to the problem but cant and wont happen over here until if is financially viable. The truth is that without the guest system speedway would not survive in this country and that is why the evil is currently necessary.

 

Its all well and good taking a stance of principal, and I understand the frustrations I really do, but principals don't pay the bills. For those that suggest teams just cover with a number 8. firstly where does the number 8 come from? Would have to come from PL presumably unless you mean we have a rider that is not riding anywhere else and therefore not earning money? And would you pay to see a number 8 riding in your team without your number 1 and therefore having no chance of winning? The real answer is that many would not. In fact a lot would not. That is the bottom line for any promoter.

 

That is my last comment on what is a fairly pointless subject without any alternative VIABLE suggestion.

[Woz01]

I like the idea of having a pool of rides who can guest for the heat leader role. Dont each team in Sweden nominate two riders who they would like to guest for them throughout the season if needed. Could we adopt that rule?

[OGT]

They didn't have guests in the 60s.

 

Mmmm, sure?

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=30590

[Fourentee]

principals don't pay the bills.

I think you'll find they do, actually!

[Skodaman]

As many people have said there seems to be no better way of replacing an injured number 1.

 

 

 

The number of guests could be reduced. eg If two teams are due to meet and they both have their No 1s out, this could be a case where juniors could be brought in and the teams would still be balanced. Obviously, each rider in each team would move up one place in status - Rider with the 2nd best average would ride at 1 etc.

[chunky]

The number of guests could be reduced. eg If two teams are due to meet and they both have their No 1s out, this could be a case where juniors could be brought in and the teams would still be balanced. Obviously, each rider in each team would move up one place in status - Rider with the 2nd best average would ride at 1 etc.

 

That's fine, and that's what used to happen. However, finding a good solution when there is only one heat leader (particularly a Number One away from home) missing is not quite as easy.

 

Steve

[Skodaman]

That's fine, and that's what used to happen. However, finding a good solution when there is only one heat leader (particularly a Number One away from home) missing is not quite as easy.

 

Steve

 

I did say that they could be reduced, I didnt say it would rid us of them. The same idea could be also used for rider replacement.

[Hazzman]

No different to footballers going out on loan to other clubs, then going back to their own clubs again.

 

It's a lot different; a player doesn't play for two different teams in the same week.

 

They have to be at another club for a minimum of a month. There are also lots of restrictions on ages and numbers. For example, in the Premiership a player must be loan for the minimum of six months (transfer window to transfer window).

 

No point comparing Football to Speedway.

[Bruiser McHuge]

when i was an avid fan i used to like the guest system....i liked the thought of a guest rider guesting for you as it was seeing somebody different...i wasn't that old though !!

Nowadays i still don't see the big problem with it ...i still don't think it viable for a club here to employ a standby rider like Hancock, Gollob etc just for cover....they would want a retainer fee, they would want engines and bikes ready to use...it would be expensive basically,,,

you cannot compare speedway to football,,,if Rooney is injured then Hernandez comes in ..no real change...you cannot compare it to junior Rugby because the standard of replacements are virtually the same, hence no real weakness.

in speedway if a number 1 is injured then they simply cannot be replaced by a junior rider...the match becomes a mismatch..fans are not happy and are likely to not turn up at all if that is the case

until a viable alternative to the gust system is produced then i don't have a major issue with it...i haven't seen a better option yet for keeping matches competitive

[The White Knight]

when i was an avid fan i used to like the guest system....i liked the thought of a guest rider guesting for you as it was seeing somebody different...i wasn't that old though !!

Nowadays i still don't see the big problem with it ...i still don't think it viable for a club here to employ a standby rider like Hancock, Gollob etc just for cover....they would want a retainer fee, they would want engines and bikes ready to use...it would be expensive basically,,,

you cannot compare speedway to football,,,if Rooney is injured then Hernandez comes in ..no real change...you cannot compare it to junior Rugby because the standard of replacements are virtually the same, hence no real weakness.

in speedway if a number 1 is injured then they simply cannot be replaced by a junior rider...the match becomes a mismatch..fans are not happy and are likely to not turn up at all if that is the case

until a viable alternative to the gust system is produced then i don't have a major issue with it...i haven't seen a better option yet for keeping matches competitive

 

How about Double, Triple or even Quadruple Points?

 

[buckie]

Unfortunately, Guest Riders remain a necessary evil for speedway, and as much as I dislike the system I have to admit that I can't think of a workable alternative which would do away with the need for them.

 

As many people point of, comparisons with football have no relevance. A less talented footballer replacing an injured colleague can be adequately covered by his team-mates with a slight change of playing style. If he isn't up to scratch, then his team-mates try to keep the ball away from him or position him were he can't do too much damage! Football is a resuts orientated sport - for most supporters the final score is all that matters. Whether the match they have watched was entertaining or not matters nothing, but speedway is nothing if it is not competitive and the teams need to be reasonably well balanced to achieve this.

 

My gripe with guest riders is really the way that promoters seem to regard it as the first option and not the last. Both guest rider and rider-replacement rules seem to favour the already strong teams and handicap the weaker ones, so a possible solution might be for a guest rider's average to be only enough to take the overall average of the team for whom he is guesting, up to the points limit instead of as at present, allowing a guest with an average up to that of the rider he is replacing. This would create a situation in which rider-replacement would be a better option in many cases, and although rider-replacement isn't a favourite rule for many supporters (including myself) I still prefer it to guests.

[The White Knight]

Unfortunately, Guest Riders remain a necessary evil for speedway, and as much as I dislike the system I have to admit that I can't think of a workable alternative which would do away with the need for them.

 

As many people point of, comparisons with football have no relevance. A less talented footballer replacing an injured colleague can be adequately covered by his team-mates with a slight change of playing style. If he isn't up to scratch, then his team-mates try to keep the ball away from him or position him were he can't do too much damage! Football is a resuts orientated sport - for most supporters the final score is all that matters. Whether the match they have watched was entertaining or not matters nothing, but speedway is nothing if it is not competitive and the teams need to be reasonably well balanced to achieve this.

 

My gripe with guest riders is really the way that promoters seem to regard it as the first option and not the last. Both guest rider and rider-replacement rules seem to favour the already strong teams and handicap the weaker ones, so a possible solution might be for a guest rider's average to be only enough to take the overall average of the team for whom he is guesting, up to the points limit instead of as at present, allowing a guest with an average up to that of the rider he is replacing. This would create a situation in which rider-replacement would be a better option in many cases, and although rider-replacement isn't a favourite rule for many supporters (including myself) I still prefer it to guests.

 

Actually - this suggestion has some merit. I believe that there are too many 'Guests' and I don't like 'R/R' either - I do think that this idea is worth consideration as is stated above - because it would be the lesser of two evils.