Not Converted

[BWitcher]

I don't think it matters very much at all how good the racing is. If your average punter doesn't believe its 'cool' or the 'in' thing to attend speedway, they won't. That's all there is to it.

 

The perception of the sport has to be changed before it has any chance to grow. This is why they have wasted the 10 years+ of Sky meetings. Every meeting they show in front of a half empty (and below) stadium re-enforces the perception that speedway is not the place 'to be'.

 

They should have been giving out tickets, reduced admission etc for TV meetings right from the off. Had they done so, the sport would be in a FAR healthier shape that it is now.

 

I always refer to the growth of the WWF/E under Vince McMahon, one of the most key things he achieved was a: obtain a National tv deal.. and then b: Ensure that the tv coverage showed a packed out crowd every time.. most of them in the early days were free tickets dished out to ensure it was full. The rest is history.

Edited April 5, 2013 by BWitcher

[Trees]

I beg to differ Bwitcher, if the racing was great fans and journalists could shout it from the roof tops and surely more people would be attracted?

[ch958]

we want the sport to flourish - thats clear from all the posts on here - we're all on the same side really

 

but how much gimmick could we stand before the sport became embarrassing - many of us already hate the joker because it makes the sport look stupid - what would we put up with

 

the american wrestling might be succesful but lets be honest its not sport its a circus - is that what we want?

[the brick]

Yes the racing is pretty much the same but two major things are missing now from when I first went to speedway as a kid in the 70s, The smell and the roar of the bikes seemed to make things much more exciting. Now days you are lucky to get that smell and the bikes are so quite. I know they have to be but that is still something that does make a difference for me.Lets face if you went to see a rock band with the sound turned low it just would not be the same.

Edited April 6, 2013 by the brick

[BWitcher]

 

the american wrestling might be succesful but lets be honest its not sport its a circus - is that what we want?

 

Completely irrelevant in the context of what I said.

 

The point is, if you broadcast the sport to the nation with nobody there, nobody is going to feel they are 'missing out'.

 

Broadcast it and the place is packed out.. folk will want to go. Its the sheep mentality.

 

I beg to differ Bwitcher, if the racing was great fans and journalists could shout it from the roof tops and surely more people would be attracted?

 

Read the above.. the racing is no different to how it's always been.

 

Plus, there are tracks in this country that produce consistently better racing than others, but they don't attract better crowds.

[Alpha]

In the last 20 years i've been watching speedway I don’t think the amount of passing has varied much at all. All of the changes to bike to improve racing (i.e. dirt deflectors) have made little or no difference to the product. As someone above said, I think the bikes are faster now but quality of racing remains unchanged. In my opinion, the biggest factor affecting quality of racing is the track layout and the racing lines around the circuit. At some tracks there is one line that is soo much faster than the others that it is very difficult to pass a rider if he is on that line. I’ve been to most tracks in the county and we know some are more conducive to passing than others. Changing the bikes, tyres, engines etc will not alter that.

 

That brings me onto my second point. The only thing holding back good crowds is the cost of speedway (to both supporters and riders). EL supporters paying £16 - £18 per adult with prices going up by the year. Speedway has always been more of a working class sport with people attending generally earning below the national average earnings (£26,500 if you believe the BBC, I think it's actually much lower). By rising the admission prices to cover promoters cost you are reducing the crowd and by proxy reducing the gate income in the style of the Laffer curve for tax income. People just won’t pay it in the current economic climate.

Promoters say most of them operated at a loss last year, but why is that? I guess stadium rent and H&S/insurance are a big factor but the wages to some riders are too high. If their cost were lower they could be paid less (but still earn the same amount), lower cost for promoters, lower cost to supporters in admission fees, = more supporters through the gate = more gate income (Admittedly simplified a little).

 

Sadly the costs are only going up with the latest silly idea to increase cost even further by allowing the use of titanium component. Maybe the bikes will go 2 mph faster down the straights but I don't think it warrants another £2 on admission price. Sure the riders pay it, but ultimately the costs will be passed onto the supporters.

 

A step forward as is often proposed is a single spec engine mass produced and sealed to prevent changes. I vaguely remember Honda being approached about 10 years ago to produce an engine (derivative of a 500cc MX engine) but the proposal was turned down by BSPA? This would reduce costs for riders and even up the field for those riders with less money available to spend on massive tuning bills.

 

Lower the price and the supporters will come.

[foamfence]

In the last 20 years i've been watching speedway I don't think the amount of passing has varied much at all. All of the changes to bike to improve racing (i.e. dirt deflectors) have made little or no difference to the product. As someone above said, I think the bikes are faster now but quality of racing remains unchanged. In my opinion, the biggest factor affecting quality of racing is the track layout and the racing lines around the circuit. At some tracks there is one line that is soo much faster than the others that it is very difficult to pass a rider if he is on that line. I've been to most tracks in the county and we know some are more conducive to passing than others. Changing the bikes, tyres, engines etc will not alter that.

 

That brings me onto my second point. The only thing holding back good crowds is the cost of speedway (to both supporters and riders). EL supporters paying £16 - £18 per adult with prices going up by the year. Speedway has always been more of a working class sport with people attending generally earning below the national average earnings (£26,500 if you believe the BBC, I think it's actually much lower). By rising the admission prices to cover promoters cost you are reducing the crowd and by proxy reducing the gate income in the style of the Laffer curve for tax income. People just won't pay it in the current economic climate.

Promoters say most of them operated at a loss last year, but why is that? I guess stadium rent and H&S/insurance are a big factor but the wages to some riders are too high. If their cost were lower they could be paid less (but still earn the same amount), lower cost for promoters, lower cost to supporters in admission fees, = more supporters through the gate = more gate income (Admittedly simplified a little).

 

Sadly the costs are only going up with the latest silly idea to increase cost even further by allowing the use of titanium component. Maybe the bikes will go 2 mph faster down the straights but I don't think it warrants another £2 on admission price. Sure the riders pay it, but ultimately the costs will be passed onto the supporters.

 

A step forward as is often proposed is a single spec engine mass produced and sealed to prevent changes. I vaguely remember Honda being approached about 10 years ago to produce an engine (derivative of a 500cc MX engine) but the proposal was turned down by BSPA? This would reduce costs for riders and even up the field for those riders with less money available to spend on massive tuning bills. (formula 2?)

 

Lower the price and the supporters will come.

And if they don't, the job is ******

[guitar_art]

Just thought I would post on here a post i put on the Brummies forum a few weeks ago as an alternative view to the original post on this thread: -

 

 

 

 

Just thought I would share something that happened to me today.

 

We have all shared thoughts about how difficult it is to get people interested in speedway. I imagine we can all tell stories along the same lines. I know that whenever I have mentioned speedway I have usually got one of two replies. 1) Whats speedway? 2) I used to go its a shame it closed down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sometimes it feels as if your banging your head up against a breeze block double wall.

 

Well

 

 

Today I was at work talking to an assessor that was looking at one of our students. She noticed my coat and said "Birmingham speedway, my son goes to that, he loves it." I asked "how long has he been going?" (I was expecting something along the lines of he used to watch it in the seventies or some variation off) she replied "He started going about 2 years ago and now he cant get enough of it" She continued "He hasn't stopped talking about the new season starting and he has been trying to tell me about the riders" I asked "Have you ever been?" She said "Yes I love it, I love the noise and I love the smell"

 

Well knock me over with a feather.

 

I think that sometimes we forget that we have a fantastic and unique product in speedway. And if we can just get people to come a fair percentage will enjoy it. So come on everybody lets shout to everyone that will listen (and to those that won't) about the most successful team in Birmingham (I'm sure someone will come up with a Birmingham team of some flavour that is more successful at the moment but I'm not listening because it isn't the point of this post.)

 

Some won't listen. Some that do won't come. some of those that come won't get it.

 

But you know what? Some will.

[Trees]

I agree that promoters should make SKY matches loads cheaper to attract the fans so it looks good on tv. I'm guessing that if they don't reduce the cost the amount of money they earn from fans attending and the SKY money covers their costs ok so they don't want to take the risk of reducing the price. Admittedly some do at different times.

 

At the end of the day it's all about covering their costs .................. perhaps they could speculate to accumulate but will those fans that got in cheap come back to a non-sky meeting paying full price .............. now if the racing was uber exciting they would eh???

 

Promoters must get across to the public just how easy the riders make a difficult and dangerous job look, how they have to make decisions in a split second, how they have no brakes etc We the fans shouldn't take what they are doing out there for granted but give them the respect and cheers/applause that is part and parcel of supporting a club!

 

Nevertheless speedway needs the riders to have great races because they can, what's the answer to making it happen though? Riders strive so hard to make the best gate but at the end of the day fans want to see the guys NOT make the gate and have to use their skills to pass ............... erm ................. handicap racing

Edited April 6, 2013 by Trees

[ch958]

Completely irrelevant in the context of what I said.

 

The point is, if you broadcast the sport to the nation with nobody there, nobody is going to feel they are 'missing out'.

 

Broadcast it and the place is packed out.. folk will want to go. Its the sheep mentality.

 

 

 

Read the above.. the racing is no different to how it's always been.

 

Plus, there are tracks in this country that produce consistently better racing than others, but they don't attract better crowds.

 

 

i wasn't saying it in the context of what you said

 

it was just a comment - I don't want to be a part of something embarrassing -

 

i rarely read your comments

 

however the gentleman who spoke about admission costs is bang on the nail - but as you've said before you yourself don't struggle for money - so f everybody else

Edited April 6, 2013 by ch958

[BWitcher]

What would be embarrassing about watching a speedway meeting in a massive crowd?

[Alpha]

And if they don't, the job is ******

 

If we can cut the riders expenses and if they agree to pass the savings onto the promoter then there is no risk to the club in reducing admission prices.

 

I agree that promoters should make SKY matches loads cheaper to attract the fans so it looks good on tv. I'm guessing that if they don't reduce the cost the amount of money they earn from fans attending and the SKY money covers their costs ok so they don't want to take the risk of reducing the price. Admittedly some do at different times.

 

At the end of the day it's all about covering their costs .................. perhaps they could speculate to accumulate but will those fans that got in cheap come back to a non-sky meeting paying full price .............. now if the racing was uber exciting they would eh???

 

Promoters must get across to the public just how easy the riders make a difficult and dangerous job look, how they have to make decisions in a split second, how they have no brakes etc We the fans shouldn't take what they are doing out there for granted but give them the respect and cheers/applause that is part and parcel of supporting a club!

 

Nevertheless speedway needs the riders to have great races because they can, what's the answer to making it happen though? Riders strive so hard to make the best gate but at the end of the day fans want to see the guys NOT make the gate and have to use their skills to pass ............... erm ................. handicap racing

 

Cheaper admission will increase the crowd figures, giving us the bigger crowds we want for the Sky coverage. I don't think you can make or force great racing but maybe it could be made closer with standardised engines. No matter how much we admire the skill and bravery of the riders, if it costs too much to go, we won't go. But I agree the promotion of the sport is a key ingredient to its success.

 

The key to this is all parties working together to reduce costs for the betterment of the sport. Trouble is the BSPA seem to have trouble making decisions between themselves without including riders/tuners etc.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Alpha

[Trees]

Gord knows enough FANS have put their ideas on here as to how speedway might attract more fans. The promoters do what they think is best within the confines of cost (which we are not privy to whatsoever!) . . . I'd like to know what riders think though . . . . it's their lives on the line/ar*** on the bikes, do they think they do all they can to improve the product, there's nothing more they can do, it's down to the promoters?

[ch958]

What would be embarrassing about watching a speedway meeting in a massive crowd?

 

the point i am trying to make is the sport is great for us - we love it - we wouldn't want too many gimmicks to take away what we love

 

i agree full stadiums wd be great

[SCB]

What would be embarrassing about watching a speedway meeting in a massive crowd?

To prove you point, my mother has been to about 15 speedway meetings in about 12 years. 12 of them at Cardiff (shes also been to Coventry and Somerset once each and possibly another I can't think of). Why? well 40,000+ people can't be wrong can they? She actually looks forward to the day in Cardiff and the GP. Newport never did that for her.

 

I also have another mate who I took to Newport 3 or 4 times many years ago, he was never that captivated - one thing he did love was when Stoke (I think) turned up and Moggo was unbeated but Stoke were struggling, in heat 8 they put Moggo off 15 metres, my mate through this was an amazing idea - the BSPA have sine scrapped the GDTS!! Anyway, he has been to over half the GPs in Cardiff and quite enjoys them but he doesn't like sitting and watching the speedway on the tele but does taking a passing interest.

[billybikespeedway]

Yes the racing is pretty much the same but two major things are missing now from when I first went to speedway as a kid in the 70s, The smell and the roar of the bikes seemed to make things much more exciting. Now days you are lucky to get that smell and the bikes are so quite. I know they have to be but that is still something that does make a difference for me.Lets face if you went to see a rock band with the sound turned low it just would not be the same.

 

have to Agree Went to Newport When it Openend 1964 The Smell the Sound ,I was Hooked from That moment ,also went to Newport From 1997 Onwards, More as a day out With Friends ,the Racing Became incidental, Would Still go Now if Newport Was Running , Not Likley, and Would not Go Elseware Somerset or Swindon as they are Not My team ,My Friends and The Smell and the Sound Have Gone .

[ch958]

what Alpha said a few posts back

theres your answer

[Henllys]

You can attend any sport Football,Rugby,F1 and you don't know how the game or race is going to turn out how many times have you seen football spectators walking out because they were fed up,watching F1 recently for two hours waiting for something to happen then the first four drivers are told to slow down save the engine fuel and tyres and the only overtaking is done in the pits.Speedway like all sports is exciting to watch when you get a good meeting and let's hope that speedway will return to better days at least you can say that speedway fans are true fans not like alot of sports today it's corporate and people who go along don't have a clue what's going on.

[bruno]

I don't think it matters very much at all how good the racing is. If your average punter doesn't believe its 'cool' or the 'in' thing to attend speedway, they won't. That's all there is to it.

 

The perception of the sport has to be changed before it has any chance to grow. This is why they have wasted the 10 years+ of Sky meetings. Every meeting they show in front of a half empty (and below) stadium re-enforces the perception that speedway is not the place 'to be'.

 

They should have been giving out tickets, reduced admission etc for TV meetings right from the off. Had they done so, the sport would be in a FAR healthier shape that it is now.

 

I always refer to the growth of the WWF/E under Vince McMahon, one of the most key things he achieved was a: obtain a National tv deal.. and then b: Ensure that the tv coverage showed a packed out crowd every time.. most of them in the early days were free tickets dished out to ensure it was full. The rest is history.

just read this post and an interesting point is I went to the raw show last year in Miami the day after Wrestlemania.watching it on tv you would think it was packed out but the seats behind the camera were only about three quarters full.apparently Vince McMahon insists tickets are sold first of all for seats in front of the cameras to give the impression of sold out arenas.good promoting eh

[cityrebel]

One thing we can all agree on is that ironically the presentation of speedway has definitely NOT changed in the last thirty years, which is why attending a speedway meeting is like stepping into a time warp.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing inherently wrong with presenting your product as if it's the 1970/80s, IF your target market is people in their 40s, 50s and upwards. The problem with speedway is that it doesn't know who its target market is, so tries to be all things to all people and ultimately fails to be anything to anyone.

 

Speedway needs to pick a target audience, like BWitcher said, your can make something "cool" just my marketing it properly. But it is very, very hard to be all things to all people, which is why every year speedway loses more fans that it gains.

a mate of mine at rye house last night said, going to a speedway meeting was like watching a vintage pathe news film!. harsh but true.