Not Converted

[speedy bill]

Some friends from Wales came to stay over the Easter holls,and i persuaded them to come along to Belle Vue with us to watch our sport non of them having ever been to the speedway before.but because we are always going on about speedway they said they would come,to see this great spectral. they were not to impressed but said it was alright for a change but did not think they would go again.But after some persuading from me,and saying that Sheffield is a much better race track we all went off last night to Sheffield,but after about heat seven they had lost interest,hardly any passing and races all over after the first lap.Yes my friends husband Wes said it seemed allot faster than at Belle Vue but the riders just seem to follow each other around for four laps he commented they might as well have one lap races the result would be the same.He just couldn't see what all the fuss we made was all about.I must admit he was right to a point just what is happening to our sport,were has the racing gone,is it the tracks fault the bikes fault or the riders fault,anyone know the answer.Yes there was to many strung out races big gaps between riders,Sheffield has always been a good place to watch speedway but if last night was a normal meeting somethings will have to change,to keep the fans happy.New supporters will not be attracted to the sport if the racing is poor,i now have a hard job to get my friends to ever go to speedway again,just one other track left in my area to take them and Buxton had better not let me down.Any one got a answer what can be done to get passing back into our sport.

[Deano]

I've given up talking the sport 'up' to non speedway friends. I ask them in passing if they want to go when there is room in my car, but no one takes me up on the offer. The point of the matter is when ever I have taken them before, for some odd reason the match either drags on, the racing is naff or some stupid rule is thrown into the mix that confuses the life out of them.

 

You have to like the sport for it's racing and qirkyness, if not they'll never be converted.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Deano

[oldace]

Some friends from Wales came to stay over the Easter holls,and i persuaded them to come along to Belle Vue with us to watch our sport non of them having ever been to the speedway before.but because we are always going on about speedway they said they would come,to see this great spectral. they were not to impressed but said it was alright for a change but did not think they would go again.But after some persuading from me,and saying that Sheffield is a much better race track we all went off last night to Sheffield,but after about heat seven they had lost interest,hardly any passing and races all over after the first lap.Yes my friends husband Wes said it seemed allot faster than at Belle Vue but the riders just seem to follow each other around for four laps he commented they might as well have one lap races the result would be the same.He just couldn't see what all the fuss we made was all about.I must admit he was right to a point just what is happening to our sport,were has the racing gone,is it the tracks fault the bikes fault or the riders fault,anyone know the answer.Yes there was to many strung out races big gaps between riders,Sheffield has always been a good place to watch speedway but if last night was a normal meeting somethings will have to change,to keep the fans happy.New supporters will not be attracted to the sport if the racing is poor,i now have a hard job to get my friends to ever go to speedway again,just one other track left in my area to take them and Buxton had better not let me down.Any one got a answer what can be done to get passing back into our sport.

 

And that confirms the point I have been making for years, marketing a flawed product is an absolute no no. Despite your good intentions those people are now lost forever to the sport, I doubt any persuading will get them to go again, those potential customers now lost.

[foamfence]

Some friends from Wales came to stay over the Easter holls,and i persuaded them to come along to Belle Vue with us to watch our sport non of them having ever been to the speedway before.but because we are always going on about speedway they said they would come,to see this great spectral. they were not to impressed but said it was alright for a change but did not think they would go again.But after some persuading from me,and saying that Sheffield is a much better race track we all went off last night to Sheffield,but after about heat seven they had lost interest,hardly any passing and races all over after the first lap.Yes my friends husband Wes said it seemed allot faster than at Belle Vue but the riders just seem to follow each other around for four laps he commented they might as well have one lap races the result would be the same.He just couldn't see what all the fuss we made was all about.I must admit he was right to a point just what is happening to our sport,were has the racing gone,is it the tracks fault the bikes fault or the riders fault,anyone know the answer.Yes there was to many strung out races big gaps between riders,Sheffield has always been a good place to watch speedway but if last night was a normal meeting somethings will have to change,to keep the fans happy.New supporters will not be attracted to the sport if the racing is poor,i now have a hard job to get my friends to ever go to speedway again,just one other track left in my area to take them and Buxton had better not let me down.Any one got a answer what can be done to get passing back into our sport.

You have to have a way of making them slow down going into corners, Tyres, Engines and frame geometry along with track preparation, have contributed to the current situation.

[pugwash]

Should have gone to Poole.

[guitar_art]

Or Birmingham.

 

Wednesday's match V Coventry altho an easy enough win (in the end) was close for a while but even when Birmingham pulled away the racing was good.

 

The thing about this is too many of us try to sell speedway on the racing front. This is I believe a mistake. Speedway is unique in the fact it is both a motor sport and a team sport. In fact the only true team sport in the whole of motor racing. You will never be hooked to speedway if you don't first become attached to the team.

 

The other great thing (IMO) about speedway is you can get three bites of the cherry. What do I mean by that?

 

Well imagine you are at a football match and watching a boring match (and its worth pointing out to any newbies that this does happen.) Generally its 2 hours of boredom. (Unless your team manages to score and that brings us back to my point of getting a connection to the sport.)

 

With speedway if you get a boring race its only five minutes before another race comes along with the potential for a thriller. That's one bite of the cherry (actually 15 bites but you know what I mean.)

 

If you have a boring match in as much as the result is a forgone conclusion you can still get good racing and rivalries such as preventing a rider getting a maximum and so on. That's another bite of the cherry.

 

Sometimes even a very boring processional race can be exciting in the context of the match. For instance if you need a 5 - 1 in the last heat to win the match and both your riders gate and go.

 

As I say its counter productive to sell speedway to newbies on the racing. Sell it on the team. Whenever I talk about speedway I always talk about it in terms of Birmingham are racing against (for instance) Coventry and I really want to put one over them and talk about the rivalry between the two clubs. If anyone asks me to explain it I am always vary vague and again talk about the team rather than the racing. That way you don't give expectations that cant be lived up to.

 

To be honest the way my dad got me into the sport is probably the best way of doing it. He just came up to me and said "put your coat on I'm taking you out" He wouldn't tell me where. We got to the track and still he wouldn't say anything. I worked out we were watching motorbikes by the noise coming from the pits and the parade. But still no info came from my dad. Then the first race started and my jaw hit the ground! Then as the riders left the pits he just whispered in my ear "They've got no brakes you know." My jaw buried itself even further. Well I was hooked and still am.

Edited April 5, 2013 by guitar_art

[MattK]

Is the racing really any worse now than it has ever been?

 

I've got DVDs of meetings from Oxford in the 70s and 80s where just as many heats are won from the gate and/or are strung out as you are likely to see in a meeting today.

 

I don't think speedway is any better or worse than any other motorsport when it comes to follow-my-leader and first out the start wins. Look at F1, 50 laps and the only time cars change positions is during pit stops.

 

The most exciting part of any motorsport event is the start and speedway is blessed in that it has 15 starts and relatively short "races".

 

That's just my 2p worth.

[Fromafar]

You have to have a way of making them slow down going into corners, Tyres, Engines and frame geometry along with track preparation, have contributed to the current situation.

I tend to agree , at the larger tracks they are just going too fast to have a LOT of passing only when a second string or reserve makes a start do you see much passing even then they often can stay in front just with sheer speed.

[BWitcher]

And that confirms the point I have been making for years, marketing a flawed product is an absolute no no. Despite your good intentions those people are now lost forever to the sport, I doubt any persuading will get them to go again, those potential customers now lost.

 

Sorry Oldace, I totally disagree.

 

Marketing and perception has everything to do with it. There are hundreds of thousands of people who 'like' things because its the 'cool thing to like' or the 'popular thing to like'.

 

Look at the arguments against speedway... 'no passing, follow the leader etc'.. yet many of the folk who make these arguments will sit watching a F1 race for 90 mins that is often even more strung out and follow the leader. Why do they do that? Because F1 is the cool, hyped sport that they feel comfortable being a fan off.

 

Darts.. go back 15-20 years, most 20-30 year old males wouldn't have dreamed of going to a Darts event.. now, through marketing and a change of presentation it's suddenly 'cool' and the crowds flock in. The game hasn't changed.

[SCB]

Is the racing really any worse now than it has ever been?

 

I've got DVDs of meetings from Oxford in the 70s and 80s where just as many heats are won from the gate and/or are strung out as you are likely to see in a meeting today.

 

I don't think speedway is any better or worse than any other motorsport when it comes to follow-my-leader and first out the start wins. Look at F1, 50 laps and the only time cars change positions is during pit stops.

 

The most exciting part of any motorsport event is the start and speedway is blessed in that it has 15 starts and relatively short "races".

 

That's just my 2p worth.

Totally agree. Was discussing this with my 50-something life long speedway supporting dad the other day and he said the same, the racing is no better or worse now than ever before. What we did say thought is that it's different, it's faster, dirtier/harder (as in moving riders over is more common place) but actual passing and more important the chance of passing and a build up to a pass is the same now as ever before.

[Deano]

 

The most exciting part of any motorsport event is the start and speedway is blessed in that it has 15 starts and relatively short "races".

 

 

It was standing on the 2nd bend at the Perry Barr dog track across the road from where it is now that got me hooked. The sheer sight of four riders coming together on the first turn amazed me.

[BWitcher]

Totally agree. Was discussing this with my 50-something life long speedway supporting dad the other day and he said the same, the racing is no better or worse now than ever before. What we did say thought is that it's different, it's faster, dirtier/harder (as in moving riders over is more common place) but actual passing and more important the chance of passing and a build up to a pass is the same now as ever before.

 

Same here, I've posted this before, but its relevant here. My formative years were mid-late 80's, early 90's watching the sport. My memory tells me how fantastic this period was racing wise. The videos and Dvd's I have of ALL the matches then tell me a completely different story.

[oldace]

Sorry Oldace, I totally disagree.

 

Marketing and perception has everything to do with it. There are hundreds of thousands of people who 'like' things because its the 'cool thing to like' or the 'popular thing to like'.

 

Look at the arguments against speedway... 'no passing, follow the leader etc'.. yet many of the folk who make these arguments will sit watching a F1 race for 90 mins that is often even more strung out and follow the leader. Why do they do that? Because F1 is the cool, hyped sport that they feel comfortable being a fan off.

 

Darts.. go back 15-20 years, most 20-30 year old males wouldn't have dreamed of going to a Darts event.. now, through marketing and a change of presentation it's suddenly 'cool' and the crowds flock in. The game hasn't changed.

Totally agree. Was discussing this with my 50-something life long speedway supporting dad the other day and he said the same, the racing is no better or worse now than ever before. What we did say thought is that it's different, it's faster, dirtier/harder (as in moving riders over is more common place) but actual passing and more important the chance of passing and a build up to a pass is the same now as ever before.

 

Yes indeed but the racing is only 15 minutes of am evenings entertainment. It all needs repackaging for the modern era, a full entertainment package, all well presented by professional people, not willing 80 year old volunteers playing music from the 60s and 70s.

 

As you say the darts is still just darts but the way its packaged today bears no resemblance to its seventies self, loud music, flashing lights, atmosphere.

 

Until this is addressed then the opening post will be a regular occurrence

 

Hang on a minute, I am being ganged up on here, is this the pack mentality Parsloes was talking about

Edited April 5, 2013 by Oldace

[BWitcher]

Yes indeed but the racing is only 15 minutes of am evenings entertainment. It all needs repackaging for the modern era, a full entertainment package, all well presented by professional people, not willing 80 year old volunteers playing music from the 60s and 70s.

 

As you say the darts is still just darts but the way its packaged today bears no resemblance to its seventies self, loud music, flashing lights, atmosphere.

 

Until this is addressed then the opening post will be a regular occurrence

 

Hang on a minute, I am being ganged up on here, is this the pack mentality Parsloes was talking about

 

But I'm in your gang aren't I? Oh.. now I'm confused.

 

I agree with where you are coming from with regards presentation.

[MattK]

Yes indeed but the racing is only 15 minutes of am evenings entertainment. It all needs repackaging for the modern era, a full entertainment package, all well presented by professional people, not willing 80 year old volunteers playing music from the 60s and 70s.

 

 

One thing we can all agree on is that ironically the presentation of speedway has definitely NOT changed in the last thirty years, which is why attending a speedway meeting is like stepping into a time warp.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing inherently wrong with presenting your product as if it's the 1970/80s, IF your target market is people in their 40s, 50s and upwards. The problem with speedway is that it doesn't know who its target market is, so tries to be all things to all people and ultimately fails to be anything to anyone.

 

Speedway needs to pick a target audience, like BWitcher said, your can make something "cool" just my marketing it properly. But it is very, very hard to be all things to all people, which is why every year speedway loses more fans that it gains.

[Agrotron]

I have to say if I was a newcomer to the Sport now I would give it a wide berth, but being a Speedway fan since the 80s I wouldn't turn my back on it.

[SCB]

Same here, I've posted this before, but its relevant here. My formative years were mid-late 80's, early 90's watching the sport. My memory tells me how fantastic this period was racing wise. The videos and Dvd's I have of ALL the matches then tell me a completely different story.

Totally agree. I first got into the sport in a big way with the return of Newport in 1997, a few years ago I order some old DVDs of Newport meeting was that I remembered from the late 90s. Turned out there was a much crap then as now but I thought it was all great!

 

 

Yes indeed but the racing is only 15 minutes of am evenings entertainment. It all needs repackaging for the modern era, a full entertainment package, all well presented by professional people, not willing 80 year old volunteers playing music from the 60s and 70s.

 

As you say the darts is still just darts but the way its packaged today bears no resemblance to its seventies self, loud music, flashing lights, atmosphere.

 

Until this is addressed then the opening post will be a regular occurrence

 

Hang on a minute, I am being ganged up on here, is this the pack mentality Parsloes was talking about

Totally agree.

[ch958]

Yes indeed but the racing is only 15 minutes of am evenings entertainment. It all needs repackaging for the modern era, a full entertainment package, all well presented by professional people, not willing 80 year old volunteers playing music from the 60s and 70s.

 

As you say the darts is still just darts but the way its packaged today bears no resemblance to its seventies self, loud music, flashing lights, atmosphere.

 

Until this is addressed then the opening post will be a regular occurrence

 

Hang on a minute, I am being ganged up on here, is this the pack mentality Parsloes was talking about

 

 

The actual darts play though is good quaity - yes its been packaged well but the core product is good

 

Speedways core product - the racing - often isn't good and its not in a warm hall full of drunks shouting and singing!

 

so you can see how one works and the other doesnt

[oldace]

The actual darts play though is good quaity - yes its been packaged well but the core product is good

 

Speedways core product - the racing - often isn't good and its not in a warm hall full of drunks shouting and singing!

 

so you can see how one works and the other doesnt

 

Twenty years ago darts wasn't in big halls full of drunks. it was played in small venues in muted silence in front of a few old dears doing their knitting. Barry Hearn and the WDC changed the profile completely bringing razzmatazz and atmosphere to the sport. Of course the blue rinse types were up in arms and stuck with the traditional BDO while the (by now) PDC flourished marketing itself to a new audience.

 

Getting a crowd in once is easy, anyone with a modicum of nouse could do it, the free entry route is the simplest and most effective. It is only worthwhile though if you are going to show those people something they will be willing to pay to come back to in the future otherwise you have just cost the sport a few thousand potential fans

[Trees]

I've said it loads of times on here, it doesn't matter how good racing was or is, it sure needs to be good/better from here on in to keep attracting fans, can't anyone work out how to make every match great?