How Do Foreign Riders Afford To Race?

[Pinny]

How many if those riders have tried and failed pl on more than one occasion?! Your telling me the likes of brendan johnson are pl standard?! Lol!

 

The el and pl are fine as i said its far lower fown the production line where the issues are

[Fromafar]

The fact is that the NL is not producing riders that can hold a place in PL even with a 3pt average.(couple of exceptions but even they were not an instant hit, onlyBoxall did the transition right away then he lost the plot)I agree that foriegners should be held on their assessed average till they fullfill it.

[speedibee]

Reading all the different debates about how we need to develop British riders one thing always intrigues me and that is how do foreign riders afford to race.

 

You get young lads from the otherside of the world turn up on these shores and carve out a career, how do they survive?

 

Do they come armed with lots of savings or is there something more to it than that?

 

Is it just taken for granted that British lads can stand on there own two feet financially (after all it is there own country), would a promoter sort out lodgings for a British rider to enable him to be close to transport links?

 

Not sure if there is a right or wrong, its the promoters choice, just interested thats all because its something that has happened for years and years.

Good question and some interesting replies so far

[Mr Blobby]

 

 

Charles Wright 8.53, Adam McKinna 6.74 (Buxton). James Sargeant 7.87, Oliver Greenwood 6.57, Brendan Johnson 5.25 (Coventry), Dan Greenwood 5.90, Paul Starke 5.70 (Dudley), Byron Bekker 7.44 Ben Hopwood 6.16, Darryl Ritching 5.84 (IOW), Steve Boxall 11.38, Ben Morley 7.82, David Mason 7.32 (Kent), Darren Mallett 7.48, Tom Young 7.04 (Kings Lynn), Jon Armstrong 8.11, Dan Halsey 6.57 (Mildenhall), Lee Smart 9.50, Kyle Hughes 6.12, Luke Priest 5.67 (Stoke). ...... All sitting in the National League while foreign riders return onlow averages to fill a team spot I'm sure a few of these could do just as well.

 

 

Several of these riders have tried and failed at PL level and the rest of them if they where good enough would they not have a team place??

[Vince]

The point isn't whether any of those particular riders are able to hold onto a place if given a long enough run (although I believe that if given a long run some could) but if they aren't given the opportunity how many others will see that and walk away from the sport before ever reaching that level? Perhaps some will not even try the sport in the first place.

 

We often see that people want riders to come across from MX or other sports, they will only do so if they can see they are going to get chance to compete on a regular basis, they are used to being able to practice and / or race every weekend and sometimes midweek if they want to. Are they really going to give that up for a few NL meetings knowing that they probably won't be given the opportunity to move up and get frequent racing? get enough British kids on bikes and the chances of finding riders of a good standard increases pro rata.

[BWitcher]

Don't buy into this no opportunity. If they are good enough, they'll get a place. Didn't take a young lad like Stefan Nielsen long to find himself a team place... just one example. I agree it would make it easier if foreign riders had to keep their assessed average if they didn't hit it though.

[brewer]

Don't buy into this no opportunity. If they are good enough, they'll get a place. Didn't take a young lad like Stefan Nielsen long to find himself a team place... just one example. I agree it would make it easier if foreign riders had to keep their assessed average if they didn't hit it though.

 

actually somerset did announce they were after brady kurtz, but he does not get his British reduction (joke) until he is 17, so opted for stefan, who had strangely been overlooked by ipswich/scunny and possibly sheffield. if this hadnt happened stefan wouldnt be in the pl, i really hope he has a good season along with every other young brit.

Edited March 25, 2013 by brewer

[orion]

As normal on these subjects you get the normal " why don't we give all are PL places to Brits " as others have said if people are good enough there find there own way any how without any charity . The answer to me has always been quite clear get a system where more people get a chance to take up the sport at a early age .giving brits who are not and will never be good enough team places at PL and EL level is not the answer .

[brewer]

As normal on these subjects you get the normal " why don't we give all are PL places to Brits " as others have said if people are good enough there find there own way any how without any charity . The answer to me has always been quite clear get a system where more people get a chance to take up the sport at a early age .giving brits who are not and will never be good enough team places at PL and EL level is not the answer .

 

i do like and see a lot of sense in your post, but the word brits should read, any rider british or foreign,

[Pinny]

How many foreigners do you see retained for a second season after failing to average 3.00 in their first seasons though? A foreigner is usually given the boot if his average dips below 3.00... I remember mark jones at newport was struggling yet still averaging over 3 and people were calling for a young brit from the nl to take his place yet there were none out there that could of provided the scores he was posting even from reserve

 

The el and pl clubs are essentially businesses you cant expect them to employ sub standard brits .

 

If you take out every foreigner who has failed to hit 5.00/7.00 assessed figures and replace them with the list of riders tnt posted plus other young brits you will end up with a piss poor standard premier league and crowds will drop even further

 

The majority of these foreign boys who come have been riding at least a decade on all sorts of bikes not just speedway bikes, they are competiting against eachother week in week out from the age of about ten maybe even younger i recall kim nilsson was racing a speedway bike in sweden at the age of about 5. Thats just one example i know as a fact, its all well and good these club mascots at the age of 6 or 7 doing a few laps on their own before a meeting on a mini bike but what they should be doing is racing other kids there age on smaller tracks regular which leads to the point that a few mini circuits should be set up for these kids, until there is a production line of young kids ready for pl racing from the uk then the calls for the pl to be flooded with sub standard nl riders should stop

 

 

[Najjer]

Charles Wright 8.53, - How many seasons has he had in the PL, and probably never even reached 5.00.

Adam McKinna 6.74 (Buxton). - Likewise has had many chances and likely he's never reached 4.00.

James Sargeant 7.87 - Had a few PL guest rides last year and is still a year or so away yet.

Oliver Greenwood 6.57, - Know nothing about him to be honest.

Brendan Johnson 5.25 (Coventry), - Been around years and injuries mean he is likely never to become an established PL rider. Had plenty of PL guest bookings last year and scored miserably on just about every occasion.

Dan Greenwood 5.90, - Know nothing about him to be honest.

Paul Starke 5.70 (Dudley) - Again, trialled and tested and whilst he was always applauded for effort, points make prizes.

Byron Bekker 7.44 - Another who has been there and done that, and was soon shifted on.

Ben Hopwood 6.16, - Was the next big thing many years ago, and has never reached NL heatleader standard.

Darryl Ritching 5.84 (IOW), - Looked promising but went backwards last year, nowhere near ready for PL.

Steve Boxall 11.38, - Said himself he isn't interested in PL.

Ben Morley 7.82, - Had some decent outings.

David Mason 7.32 (Kent), - Seriously?

Darren Mallett 7.48, - Another one who made good progress a few years back but injuries has cost him.

Tom Young 7.04 (Kings Lynn), - Made great progress last year and be interesting to see how he goes this year.

Jon Armstrong 8.11, - Again, seriously?

Dan Halsey 6.57 (Mildenhall), - Another one who just doesn't cut it.

Lee Smart 9.50, - Again, had many chances and injuries has cost him again. Think he still has a reasonably high average even after a pointless time at Redcar.

Kyle Hughes 6.12, - Was woeful in his last 3 times in the Premier League for Somerset, Leicester and Plymouth.

Luke Priest 5.67 (Stoke) - Wasn't PL standard before his severe injuries, so is never going to be again now.

 

You also seem to forget TNT that Berwick, Edinburgh, Redcar and Rye House are the only teams not to track a British reserve who is currently riding in the National League this year - however Rye House's team also includes Jason Garrity and Simon Lambert both of whom have spent time developing from the National League in recent seasons.

 

Meanwhile Somerset and Newcastle are the only teams to include all British reserves with Nielsen + Perry, and S Worral + Kerr... plus Newman and R Worral who are now becoming established PL riders.

 

Just where exactly out of your list of riders, do you expect any of them to fit into the Premier League, and who for? If I was building a team not one of those names mention would feature in any of my teams.

[The White Knight]

Paul Starke would be in my Team.

Edited March 26, 2013 by The White Knight

[stratton]

Josh Bates is a prime ex) this year i hope the stags are prepared to carry him for a bit they were great with Toft and that was correct. I dont think they will have to carry him totally though and there is a rider there with huge potential.But he has to be allowed to do his apprenticeship and have a few rough spots often the Brits who would of proved themselves over a period often were not given the chance.I know it's a different level but isn't LAHTI a example if you rate someone keep prevailing and the results will come.

[T.N.T.]

You also seem to forget TNT that Berwick, Edinburgh, Redcar and Rye House are the only teams not to track a British reserve who is currently riding in the National League this year - however Rye House's team also includes Jason Garrity and Simon Lambert both of whom have spent time developing from the National League in recent seasons.

 

Meanwhile Somerset and Newcastle are the only teams to include all British reserves with Nielsen + Perry, and S Worral + Kerr... plus Newman and R Worral who are now becoming established PL riders.

 

Just where exactly out of your list of riders, do you expect any of them to fit into the Premier League, and who for? If I was building a team not one of those names mention would feature in any of my teams.

 

 

Many of you seem to be missing the point. The list I put up of riders in the NL and not in the PL was an eample and while some have been in the PL before without much sucess, the issue is, why shouldn't they be there riding and maybe struggling at reserve rather than a 3 point foreign rider taking up the place and costing more money.

 

If Henry Cecil had 5 horses running in a race of 12, then he has a decent chance of winning, but if he can only enter one or two horses because Sheik Mohammed has entered 7 future burgers, then the chances of fining the next Frankel has gone down hill. ...... Why should we be saying to young British riders ..... You have tried in the past to make the grade but sorry you have no job in the country you were born in because Pierre Luigi Hitzelberg can look better on the programme !!

 

 

It's not just giving them a chance to make the grade ..... it's about giving them a job also !!!

[iris123]

But you have said they are in the NL,so they have a job,at the level that is right for them i would guess.I doubt any employer would keep persisting with someone he knows can't do the job he wants when there is an alternative that maybe or definitely can......

[T.N.T.]

But you have said they are in the NL,so they have a job,at the level that is right for them i would guess.

 

I doubt any employer would keep persisting with someone he knows can't do the job he wants when there is an alternative that maybe or definitely can......

 

The National League doesn't really pay unless you are doing it for a hobby and willing to lose money.

 

As for your second point ..... same can be said of many foreign riders that were bought over on highe averages than they now carry !!

[iris123]

Yes,but your point about horseracing is a little strange as surely there are plenty of horse races at various levels for Henry Cecil or any other trainer to enter horses.Surely he doesn't enter everyone of his horses into big races straight away.He gives them the right competition for their level?And if it has been proven they are not top class does he still persist in entering them in classic races?

Edited March 29, 2013 by iris123

[stratton]

I agree with TNT,s point if you give a young talented englishmen a go and he scores say 3 or 4 why would you pay over the odds say on a foreigner who might only score 1 or 2 more points.We all agree that the likes of Barrett,Dyer,Dilger, Tabaka,Fricke, (ect) can all improve and it's great they are in the PL. But we shouldn't forget they're might be a few young uns who eventually could make the step up from the NL if given a extended run? i hope so anyway.

[Mr Blobby]

The problem is there is not really any NL riders who is ready for the step up, if they were ready they would have made the step up and have a team place.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Mr Blobby

[Fromafar]

I think nowadays one of the problems are the the senior riders and top men just stay in PL and earn a good living stifling the opportunties for rider "turnaround" and most teams are looking for an" unknown" foriegner who might " hit the ground running",as most fans can see that British talent in NL is" work in progress".Dont see any overnight British sensations which was quite common in the past IMO