How Do Foreign Riders Afford To Race?

[Soul Crew]

Reading all the different debates about how we need to develop British riders one thing always intrigues me and that is how do foreign riders afford to race.

 

You get young lads from the otherside of the world turn up on these shores and carve out a career, how do they survive?

 

Do they come armed with lots of savings or is there something more to it than that?

 

Is it just taken for granted that British lads can stand on there own two feet financially (after all it is there own country), would a promoter sort out lodgings for a British rider to enable him to be close to transport links?

 

Not sure if there is a right or wrong, its the promoters choice, just interested thats all because its something that has happened for years and years.

[The Know]

Promoters and sponsors and fans all get behind the foreign riders. British lads are left by the wayside. Bit like football really. The reason why ? Who knows I have changed my outlook on it greatly over the last few years.

[bringbackHalifax]

I believe when guys up sticks and leave home they come here with a rubbish or bust attitude. Their priority is to make it work. A lot of Brits see it as a lifestyle alternative to work, and seem content to plod along with a bit of money, living for the here and now and don't seem to have a long term game plan. They then end up on the treadmill of getting by.

Craig Cook and Ritchie Worrall are seen as two great hopes for the future of British Speedway, and the backbone of Belle Vue for years to come. That is great for Belle Vue.

If Cook and Worrall want to make it big in the sport, they should up sticks, move to Poland together, get on the circuit out there, live the rubbish or bust attitude and become a world great not a British speedway great.

When they reach the dizzy heights fit in the British speedway if they want, only if it will make them better.

This will turn off some Brit fans but ultimately it is the only way we will mix it at the top of world speedway.

 

If we get to that point and other youngsters follow suit the sports profile will lift and then the leagues will become attractive again to top riders.

 

In the meantime run the leagues with riders of the same calibre and provide entertainment in preparation for the next generation of riders arriving.

[Deano]

Basically, other countries, such as Australia, Denmark and Sweden have grass routes speedway. They come here to finish that training. Here, we don't seem that interested in getting 3 year olds onto speeday bikes and developing through to good National League riders. We seem to start at the level just below National League and hope they compete if and when they get to Pemier League reserve.

[iris123]

It is i think a lot to do with attitude.I know people here say that the foreign guys get a lot handed on a plate,but they do make big sacrifices or not only them but their families do.For instance i was talking to a few of the young Aussies fathers who came over to Denmark with their sons for the 80cc world championships.Just the few days/week had costed 1,000s of pounds.One of those youngsters is now in the GPs and one doing well in Road Racing.Also when one of the top young Danes moved up to 500cc he told me just how much he would be paying his parents back once the money started coming in.

Somewhere along the line talented Brits like Bridger and Kennett seem to lose their way.Kennett i seem to remember did give up Britain for Sweden for a short period of time,but even then it seemed his head was all wrong

[Vince]

I think we need to forget about developing World Champions and concentrate on getting as many British lads into the leagues as possible. Eventually when there are enough of them the odds will be in favour of producing top class riders.

 

As for riders of other nationalities, if you have the talent Darcy Ward yo are going to get all the help you can ever need whether you are Australian or Afghan. For most though it seems they come over with savings and help from family and friends. Once here they do tend to get a good amount of help with lodgings, facilities and work. In my experience on average they are no more motivated or dedicated than the average British rider. You have to remember to compare like with like and you tend to see the better foreign riders come over so you can't compare them with British youngsters doing amateur meetings or second halfs and hoping to go on from there, those who made it here are already way past that stage. Many British youngsters and their families make huge sacrifices to support their racing, no more or less so than the foreign riders and their families.

 

Very different thing for British riders to go to Poland with no guarantee that if their first race is poor they will get another chance. They are also going to be competing against home grown riders who have spent hundreds of hours more riding Speedway bikes in many cases and have systems in place to make sure they can retain their team place. Compare that to somebody coming to the UK who once signed will be given a lot longer in a team to find their way than the home grown rider because of the way our asset system works.

 

Is it taken for granted that a British rider will stand on his own two feet financially? Very much so. Would he be helped with digs, workshop, transport etc? Not as far as I am aware, certainly not at the outset of his PL career.

[iris123]

Yes but for some of the foreign guys it seems "lodgings" means a caravan by the track.Hardly the lifestyle any Brit is going to put up with as far as i know.And let's not forget it wouldn't just be British riders who go to Poland with no guarantee of anything more than one ride.In fact i remember talking to the father of one Danish star who was very upset that his son was only getting one ride in Poland in his early days

[Vince]

British riders can and have lived in places such as a caravan by the track, subtle difference that it's not subsidised by the need for promoters to pay toward accomodation by work permit requirements.

[mikebv]

its a numbers game in many ways....

 

it seems foreign riders have more commitment and desire but in many ways we are only taking about those who 'make it'..

 

promoters take on a foreign rider for a team place time and time again with a huge amount failing, only to be replaced by yet another foreigner...

 

in reality most are no better or worse than a brit counterpart but are recommended by someone who rides with them in poland. sweden denmark etc therefore the promoter takes a punt...

 

the speedway world is full of 5 to 6.5 point men 'journeymen' who use the speedway 'revolving door'...

 

as a fan, from an entertainment point of view watching a brit 'journeyman' or a foreign one is much of muchness..

 

the difference for me is that in the bigger picture the more brits in the teams means more track time and hopefully more benefits for the sport domestically

[Gearhead]

They get paid a guaranteed amount of money per week,a good score of points in meetings and they're exceeding that figure,usually someone puts them up so so they have no overheads and get fed etc,if they pick up a few sponsors as the Aussies often so you can see how they make progress

 

In rrelation,I suppose the biggest trade off for being away is that they don't have the other commitments or costs etc British riders might have

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

British riders can and have lived in places such as a caravan by the track, subtle difference that it's not subsidised by the need for promoters to pay toward accomodation by work permit requirements.

 

Yes, but paying a guaranteed minimum wage and providing lodging is only required for work permit riders. I don't think any guarantees are required for EU/EEA riders which is most foreign riders these days, although it's likely these sort of things are negotiated into contracts. I certainly wouldn't agree to work abroad with all the attendant costs that entails without some sort of guaranteed income.

 

In addition, the minimum wage for work permit riders was only something like 150 quid a week last time I looked, and I think the cost lodging can be deducted from that as well. Hardly a fantastic living if you're not scoring points.

 

I think the main reason is that anyone making the effort to go to another country to work/ride is generally going to be more determined to succeed than most of the locals, plus of course they're usually more skilled on average. I'd guess with riders as well, they probably have decent parental/sponsor backing to start with, whereas those that don't stick around in local competitions.

[Vince]

Yes, but paying a guaranteed minimum wage and providing lodging is only required for work permit riders. I don't think any guarantees are required for EU/EEA riders which is most foreign riders these days, although it's likely these sort of things are negotiated into contracts. I certainly wouldn't agree to work abroad with all the attendant costs that entails without some sort of guaranteed income.

 

In addition, the minimum wage for work permit riders was only something like 150 quid a week last time I looked, and I think the cost lodging can be deducted from that as well. Hardly a fantastic living if you're not scoring points.

 

I think the main reason is that anyone making the effort to go to another country to work/ride is generally going to be more determined to succeed than most of the locals, plus of course they're usually more skilled on average. I'd guess with riders as well, they probably have decent parental/sponsor backing to start with, whereas those that don't stick around in local competitions.

 

So a foreign rider is being hard done by to get by on £150 a week when they are set up within a few miles of their home track and not scoring while a British lad who lives at the other end of the country is OK to get by on nothing at all if he has a bad spell. Not only that but he will be dropped if he has more than a couple of bad meetings because he will never become a club asset. For my money the British lad who is paying out to travel hundreds of miles every week with very little support is the one showing real dedication.

 

The truth of the matter as far as I see it is that there is little difference between the attitudes of British and foreign riders. Some are very dedicated, some are on a jolly and if anybody thinks that every Aussie, Kiwi , Dane etc is hugely dedicated and spends all their time working on their bikes rather than partying they are mistaken.

[Pinny]

Better attitudes towards progressing riders from a very young age in their own countrys, its as simple as that really.

 

Until the bspa or scb or whatever put an 80cc junior structure together or something similar then always expect us to be trailing behind the foreign riders.

 

As good as cook and worrall are, compare them with riders of similar or younger age i.e janowski, jepsen jensen, bech jensen, ward, etc.

 

I also find it no coincidence that our brightest star at the mo, tai woffiden, spent the bulk of his life living in aussie and riding with all the young aussie boys.

 

The lack of young brits in the pl and el is nothing to do with it, you know yourself vince what putting the likes of Sam and Billy legg into the pl done to their careers. They should of been ready in the nl before making the step up.. And they werent.

 

The nl nowadays virtually contains all brits , we shall see how well the likes of jacobs and nielsen get on this season, but if they struggle and get booted out and are replaced by a foreigner who can consistently score 3/4/5 points a meeting who can blame the pl promoter?

 

The foreigners taking up places excuse is wearing thin now the lack of young british talent goes a lot further down the line than too many foreigners taking up places

[Vince]

Because Sam and Billy didn't make a success of moving into the PL doesn't make it wrong for others to try and it didn't do any damage to their careers in all honesty, they didn't make it because they weren't dedicated enough. There were also other things going on that caused problems for Sam at the wrong time so it's not as cut and dried as you think. Ater all there were also more experienced foreign lads tried at Newport that didn't succeed either.

 

In my opinion it's very little to do with 80cc or organised junior racing either (though both could be only good things) and everything to do with kids riding bikes for lots of hours. You only had to talk to Mads or Kristian to understand just how much time they could spend riding round a Speedway track for minimal cost. We once worked out that Kristian could spend more time on track in a month than a British lad was likely to get in 2 years and it was costing him about £8 per day with some proper coaching often available.

 

That is why they are more succesful at an earlier age. I personally don't think that matters so much and we should be comparing British lads at 22 or so with their 16 to 18 year old foreign counterparts. The other problem is that whenever these things come up the talk is about the Ward's and Jensen's. Those riders would come through whatever their nationality because they are exceptionally talented, a British lad with Wards natural ability would be in the same position although maybe a couple of years later. We need to concentrate on getting kids into the PL and keeping them there, the rest will follow in time.

[Pinny]

I dont know the ins and outs with sam and billy but do know that too many young brits get put into the pl too early and this has disastrous effects on their career.

 

I think sam and billy were signed because of some decent scores in the nl... However i believe another year or two, maybe three before stepping up would of seen them make decent careers. But they were 6 pt cl riders with far higher scoring riders in the league at the time.

 

You need to dominate the nl before making the move up imo.

 

I think the 80cc league is very relevent... Its funny how all these other top countries have them (sweden poland denmark aussie) yet the countrys that dont have them (russia czech slovakia slovenia croatia etc) only produce a star rider once in a blue moon, those countries are a lot worse off speedway wise than gb.

 

More needs to be looked into getting kids from a young age into speedway on smaller machines, it happens abroad as said and look at some of the talents we see on these shores from abroad.

 

It may not be the sole reason but its one of the biggest.

[The H Man]

 

Craig Cook and Ritchie Worrall are seen as two great hopes for the future of British Speedway, and the backbone of Belle Vue for years to come. That is great for Belle Vue.

If Cook and Worrall want to make it big in the sport, they should up sticks, move to Poland together, get on the circuit out there, live the rubbish or bust attitude and become a world great not a British speedway great.

When they reach the dizzy heights fit in the British speedway if they want, only if it will make them better.

This will turn off some Brit fans but ultimately it is the only way we will mix it at the top of world speedway.

 

If we get to that point and other youngsters follow suit the sports profile will lift and then the leagues will become attractive again to top riders.

 

 

Nice idea in principal but even if the likes of Cook, Worrall and any other developing British talent wanted to do that, would a Poland or Swedish team snap them up? I doubt it, as they seem content developing their own rather the British promoter who seems intent on signing a developing Swede, Pole, Aussie or Dane rather than investing in the development of home grown riders.

 

[Topcat]

Northside appears to be making a concerted effort to encourage and bring on talent even if it is at an early stage. Scunthorpe have for years made track time available. Yes there isn't enough and the costs just get greater. Second halfs should be encouraged,but too many promotions don't seem to give encouragement.

[Humphrey Appleby]

So a foreign rider is being hard done by to get by on £150 a week when they are set up within a few miles of their home track and not scoring while a British lad who lives at the other end of the country is OK to get by on nothing at all if he has a bad spell.

 

My point was that the 'guarantees' that have to be given to work permit riders are hardly generous, especially as they won't be able to take other employment unlike the local Brits. Furthermore, work permit riders have to have had a degree if success in order to qualify for a work permit in the first place.

 

I wouldn't disagree that trying to break into any speedway is difficult and requires lots of travelling for little reward. However, what other professional sport is any different?

[Mr Blobby]

Nice idea in principal but even if the likes of Cook, Worrall and any other developing British talent wanted to do that, would a Poland or Swedish team snap them up? I doubt it, as they seem content developing their own rather the British promoter who seems intent on signing a developing Swede, Pole, Aussie or Dane rather than investing in the development of home grown riders.

 

Cook had offers to go to Poland this year and said no but would welcome an offer for 2014.

[T.N.T.]

Maybe most foreign rders do have a different attitude towards their career in the sport and that shows in numerous riders that have graced the circuits over here during the years. However that's not the case in a number of riders and it is the foreign riders that don't have the skill and ability to make it anywhee near the top that are the main concern.

 

 

When you look at the Premier League for 2013, you have 16 foreign riders starting the season on an average below 6.00 and that's not including the numerous Australians. Many of these riders came over on an assessed average much higher than the figure they are going to start 2013 with, so despite proving they are not of the standard they should be, they are invited back year after year.

 

 

Meanwhile there are young British riders being funded by their parents struggling to make ends meet in the National League that could do just as good a job and have more chance of progressing to at least a 6+ rider in the PL in the next few years. Quite frankly I feel that the National League is still not thought of as a proper league and even when you look at the Speedway Star 2013 review, it goes Elite League, Premier League, GP's, Sweden, Czech Republic, Poland, Denmark, Russia and Germany before you come across the very good review of the National League.

 

 

Even reviews on Argentina, Austria, Belgium, France, Holland, Hungary, Latvia, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria, USA, Norway, Ukraine, South Africa, Slovakia, Finland, Estonia, Slovenia, Croatia and Canada are put before the NL review ....... Why ? ...... This may only be a small issue to many, but why the NL review shouldn't follow the PL review is to me a show of disrespect to the league where one day we hope this country will develop a rider or team that can take on the world as the did 25 years ago.

 

 

So what can be done to help these British riders out and hopefully give them more desire to develop in the sport. EASY ..... Give them more chances and spaces in the Premier League.

 

 

SOLUTION; When a rider comes over here on an assessed average, be it 5.00 or 7.00 or 8.00, they should stay on that figure until they reach that standard. If the fail to reach that average, then please let them back the following year to try again ..... but they must still carry that assessed average and if they miss any meeting only their REAL average is used to determine where R/R or a replacement fits in

 

Would PL teams still pay to fly over a German, Hungarian, Dane etc etc that will start as a heat leader when they have proved they cant do that job and only average virtually half of the figure they carry. Or would they turn to riders sitting and waiting in the National League dying to be given a chance to prove themselves and try and make a living so they can re pay the trust put in them by their parents.

 

 

Charles Wright 8.53, Adam McKinna 6.74 (Buxton). James Sargeant 7.87, Oliver Greenwood 6.57, Brendan Johnson 5.25 (Coventry), Dan Greenwood 5.90, Paul Starke 5.70 (Dudley), Byron Bekker 7.44 Ben Hopwood 6.16, Darryl Ritching 5.84 (IOW), Steve Boxall 11.38, Ben Morley 7.82, David Mason 7.32 (Kent), Darren Mallett 7.48, Tom Young 7.04 (Kings Lynn), Jon Armstrong 8.11, Dan Halsey 6.57 (Mildenhall), Lee Smart 9.50, Kyle Hughes 6.12, Luke Priest 5.67 (Stoke). ...... All sitting in the National League while foreign riders return onlow averages to fill a team spot I'm sure a few of these could do just as well.

 

 

 

I they are good enough, fine. But if they don't reach their assessed average ..... they keep it until they do !!