Soul Crew Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Not at all - it is sensible. We NEED British Speedway to get back to the top of the pile - we will not do this by giving facilities to Foreign Riders, in some cases (not all) not as good the British Riders who are being forced out. For some reason Promoters seem to think 'Foreign is BEST'. I have news for them sometimes they are right - but - more often they are WRONG. Ok, I appreciate where your coming from but I refer to my original question. We create an artificial "world" where British lads only race British lads, they then go out to the big world and race Australians, Swedes, Danes, Poles and Americans who may already be of a higher standard meaning the artificial "world" has been a waste of time. I think people are getting confused between development and track time, two completely different agendas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 So stefan Nielsen shouldn't be allowed to ride in the national league then as he has danish father. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Ok, I appreciate where your coming from but I refer to my original question. We create an artificial "world" where British lads only race British lads, they then go out to the big world and race Australians, Swedes, Danes, Poles and Americans who may already be of a higher standard meaning the artificial "world" has been a waste of time. I think people are getting confused between development and track time, two completely different agendas.... No - not artificial at all. They do their training at National League level against the odd 'older' Rider (with which I have no problem) and then progress to the Premier/Elite League IF they are good enough. To give foreigners the chance to become better through our Training structure to me seems stupid. If we wish British Speedway to prosper, and I assume we all want that, then priority MUST be given to British Riders. At the end of the day a Speedway Rider is a Speedway Rider be he foreign or British. You can only Race what is alongside you at the Tapes. So stefan Nielsen shouldn't be allowed to ride in the national league then as he has danish father. Who will he ride for at International level. TeamGB no problem. Denmark - then NO he should NOT be allowed in our National League. The clue is in the name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Crew Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 No - not artificial at all. They do their training at National League level against the odd 'older' Rider (with which I have no problem) and then progress to the Premier/Elite League IF they are good enough. To give foreigners the chance to become better through our Training structure to me seems stupid. If we wish British Speedway to prosper, and I assume we all want that, then priority MUST be given to British Riders. At the end of the day a Speedway Rider is a Speedway Rider be he foreign or British. You can only Race what is alongside you at the Tapes. Seems a bit of a contradiction to me, if the National League is just a training structure then why are folk paying £10 to £12 a time to watch? And you say a speedway rider is a speedway rider regardless of nationality, so what you mean is, the British lads need track time? For me, to be the best you've got to beat the best, its like putting an adult in the 100m against a bunch of five year olds. #ambition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Potter 2 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 No - not artificial at all. They do their training at National League level against the odd 'older' Rider (with which I have no problem) and then progress to the Premier/Elite League IF they are good enough. To give foreigners the chance to become better through our Training structure to me seems stupid. If we wish British Speedway to prosper, and I assume we all want that, then priority MUST be given to British Riders. At the end of the day a Speedway Rider is a Speedway Rider be he foreign or British. You can only Race what is alongside you at the Tapes. Who will he ride for at International level. TeamGB no problem. Denmark - then NO he should NOT be allowed in our National League. The clue is in the name. Totally agree with you White Knight. If they want to ride in the National League or on a reduced average in the Premier League, they should remain as a GB National. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Seems a bit of a contradiction to me, if the National League is just a training structure then why are folk paying £10 to £12 a time to watch? And you say a speedway rider is a speedway rider regardless of nationality, so what you mean is, the British lads need track time? For me, to be the best you've got to beat the best, its like putting an adult in the 100m against a bunch of five year olds. #ambition After I Posted and the re-read my Post I thought you might come back to me on that. It isn't a contradiction because the National League IS a recognised League even though it is basically for producing and Training, and yes, giving Track time to young British Riders - or that is the way it should be. As for paying to watch, my argument that the National League IS a recognised League answers that question. You want to watch League Speedway you have to pay for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Seems a bit of a contradiction to me, if the National League is just a training structure then why are folk paying £10 to £12 a time to watch? And you say a speedway rider is a speedway rider regardless of nationality, so what you mean is, the British lads need track time? For me, to be the best you've got to beat the best, its like putting an adult in the 100m against a bunch of five year olds. #ambition Apart from those you can count on one hand, how many British riders get the chance to learn abroad or even make a living abroad? It's pretty much a one way street. As far as I'm concerned, international or foreign riders should be in the top division or nothing, we now have a situation where some PL clubs have five or six overseas riders, while some Brits struggle to find a place or move up from the NL......no wonder the public have lost interest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Apart from those you can count on one hand, how many British riders get the chance to learn abroad or even make a living abroad? It's pretty much a one way street. As far as I'm concerned, international or foreign riders should be in the top division or nothing, we now have a situation where some PL clubs have five or six overseas riders, while some Brits struggle to find a place or move up from the NL......no wonder the public have lost interest. You may as well scrap the PL if no foreign riders are allowed to ride in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Who will he ride for at International level. TeamGB no problem. Denmark - then NO he should NOT be allowed in our National League. The clue is in the name. He's already committed himself to GB. As is evident by his riding in NL & British Under-21 meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 He's already committed himself to GB. As is evident by his riding in NL & British Under-21 meetings. Thank you MrMungo - then I have no problem with him in the National League. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Potter 2 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Thank you MrMungo - then I have no problem with him in the National League. As has Robert Branford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 At the end of the day if you say, for arguments sake, 1 rider in every 20 makes the grade in the PL or above then you need as many British riders on bikes as you can get. If,as I believe, that difficulty getting enough racing is one of the reasons riders walk away from the sport before they hardly get going then it doesn't make sense to be giving places to foreign lads. Especially as in many cases the main reason the foreign lad is better than his British counterpart of the same age is because he has 10 times the amount of riding hours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) If,as I believe, that difficulty getting enough racing is one of the reasons riders walk away from the sport before they hardly get going then it doesn't make sense to be giving places to foreign lads. Especially as in many cases the main reason the foreign lad is better than his British counterpart of the same age is because he has 10 times the amount of riding hours. My view on allowing foreign riders into the NL is based upon the fact that NL teams aren't just training tracks (there are only 2 double up teams in the NL, and if those planning to come in in 2014 do so the percentage will reduce further) they are commercial enterprises. As such, they rely on gate receipts and other income just as much as their PL & EL equivalents. The addition of one foreigner who can provide a great deal of colour and make the team line up far more impressive (Cameron Heeps at Mildenhall is the obvious exmple) will help to attract new fans and retain existing ones. I think that that is very much worth the sacrifice of one GB youngster's place. Edited March 24, 2013 by Halifaxtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 My view on allowing foreign riders into the NL is based upon the fact that NL teams aren't just training tracks (there are only 2 double up teams in the NL, and if those planning to come in in 2014 do so the percentage will reduce further) they are commercial enterprises. As such, they rely on gate receipts and other income just as much as their PL & EL equivalents. The addition of one foreigner who can provide a great deal of colour and make the team line up far more impressive (Cameron Heeps at Mildenhall is the obvious exmple) will help to attract new fans and retain existing ones. I think that that is very much worth the sacrifice of one GB youngster's place. They can always join the PL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 My view on allowing foreign riders into the NL is based upon the fact that NL teams aren't just training tracks (there are only 2 double up teams in the NL, and if those planning to come in in 2014 do so the percentage will reduce further) they are commercial enterprises. As such, they rely on gate receipts and other income just as much as their PL & EL equivalents. The addition of one foreigner who can provide a great deal of colour and make the team line up far more impressive (Cameron Heeps at Mildenhall is the obvious exmple) will help to attract new fans and retain existing ones. I think that that is very much worth the sacrifice of one GB youngster's place. So how would an inexperienced foreign rider help bring more to a team than an inexperienced British rider? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) So how would an inexperienced foreign rider help bring more to a team than an inexperienced British rider? A foreigner is seen as a bit exotic in some sense.A shame in some ways,but no getting away from the fact.I went with a lot of others once to see an Ipswich football match.Why?Because at the time i was caught up in the hype of the first Soviet football player in the football league.Sergei Baltacha.Now he wasn't one of the best ever footballers at that time or any other time,but it was something that caught the imagination of the media and the public because of that.He probably put 100s on the gate for that and maybe a few games after whereas if Ipswich had signed a British player of the same standard it would hardly have been noticed. Edited March 24, 2013 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 A foreigner is seen as a bit exotic in some sense.A shame in some ways,but no getting away from the fact.I went with a lot of others once to see an Ipswich football match.Why?Because at the time i was caught up in the hype of the first Soviet football player in the football league.Sergei Baltacha.Now he wasn't one of the best ever footballers at that time or any other time,but it was something that caught the imagination of the media and the public because of that.He probably put 100s on the gate for that and maybe a few games after whereas if Ipswich had signed a British player of the same standard it would hardly have been noticed. I'll agree that a foreign rider from unusual countries can be a bit of an added attraction but we already have the PL and EL for that. The NL for me has the added attraction of NOT being full of foreigners. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 A foreigner is seen as a bit exotic in some sense.A shame in some ways,but no getting away from the fact.I went with a lot of others once to see an Ipswich football match.Why?Because at the time i was caught up in the hype of the first Soviet football player in the football league.Sergei Baltacha.Now he wasn't one of the best ever footballers at that time or any other time,but it was something that caught the imagination of the media and the public because of that.He probably put 100s on the gate for that and maybe a few games after whereas if Ipswich had signed a British player of the same standard it would hardly have been noticed. I bunked school the one and only time that day to see his first match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Sergei Baltacha.Now he wasn't one of the best ever footballers at that time or any other time,but it was something that caught the imagination of the media and the public because of that.He probably put 100s on the gate for that and maybe a few games after whereas if Ipswich had signed a British player of the same standard it would hardly have been noticed. Yes, and his daughter Elena went on to represent Britain in tennis, usually badly, but never mind... However, the point is that she was Ukrainian born so wouldn't have be allowed to compete in the National League if some people get their way, despite the fact she only five years ago when she arrived in Britain. It shows the difficulty of making hard-and-fast rules. In general, I'd agree that the National League should be primarily a development league for British riders and not a finishing school for Aussies etc.. However, the fact remains there are many foreign nationals in the UK who may wish to take up speedway and it would be absurd to exclude them because of an accident of birth. Edited March 24, 2013 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yes, and his daughter Elena went on to represent Britain in tennis, usually badly, but never mind... However, the point is that she was Ukrainian born so wouldn't have be allowed to compete in the National League if some people get their way, despite the fact she only five years ago when she arrived in Britain. It shows the difficulty of making hard-and-fast rules. In general, I'd agree that the National League should be primarily a development league for British riders and not a finishing school for Aussies etc.. However, the fact remains there are many foreign nationals in the UK who may wish to take up speedway and it would be absurd to exclude them because of an accident of birth. They aren't excluded if they pledge their future to Britain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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