Leicester Lions Vs Coventry Bees Challenge Match 16/3/13

[The Voice Of Reason]

NO outdoor speedway track can absorb 9 hours of (more or less) constant, heavy rain.

 

Drainage doesn't even come into it.

 

However, just bear in mind the phenomenal amount of meetings staged by Leicester in 2012; despite it being the wettest year in our history.

[Najjer]

NO outdoor speedway track can absorb 9 hours of (more or less) constant, heavy rain.

 

I ask the question yet again which no one has given a reasonable answer to yet, why don't tracks have covers on them?

 

That way, it could have as many hours of rain as you wish and assuming it's dry at half 7, you get on with the meeting.

[wandersome]

I ask the question yet again which no one has given a reasonable answer to yet, why don't tracks have covers on them?

 

That way, it could have as many hours of rain as you wish and assuming it's dry at half 7, you get on with the meeting.

 

Wasn't there a big deal made at the AGM that Leicester would be trialling covers this year on behalf of the BSPA. Is that still happening?

 

Mick.

[The Voice Of Reason]

It's a valid question about covering the track.

 

However, let's consider the following.

 

The track is covered throughout the day and, for example, uncovered at 5pm when the rain stops. In this instance, there is just insufficient time to prepare it properly. If racing goes ahead, it will just be a dust bowl, racing will be at a premium and spectators will go home dissatisfied.

 

Having worked at Lakeside, I learnt a few things.

 

Firstly, a track isn't just prepared a few hours before a meeting; nor even just on the day. In Lakeside's case, their track curator starts work on a Tuesday; grading and watering the track in readiness for Friday night. He's continually grading and watering from 6am until evening each and every day. Track covers would clearly make this task impossible.

 

Secondly, the amount of water that you put onto a track IS an exact science. Having worked all afternoon (until 7pm) sweeping the porridge off the track after morning/afternoon rain, just a 5 minute cloudburst has previously waterlogged the track and took it into a point of no return. It's bloody heartbreaking at times (especially at Lakeside where the entire track's fence panels and airbags have been put up and then taken down again for absolutely nothing - this alone takes at least 2 hours at a time).

 

Some tracks are more susceptible to water than others - depending on the base NOT how much shale is on the surface. Some are clay based and others are chalk. It's an art form knowing just how much water to apply; and having to gauge this with ongoing, changeable weather forecasts.

 

A lot of track curators have access to the most reliable updated weather forecasts via the net; a service (forget it's name) that costs money to use BUT gives updates every 15 minutes. I think it was last year (or maybe the year before) when we saw a huge bank of rain clouds heading our way from the Oxford area around 4pm. It was due to hit us at Purfleet around 7pm. However, in the interim, the wind gathered momentum and it was then due to arrive just after 6pm. So, a track curator has to make a decision of how much water to apply, and more importantly, precisely when to apply it. In this particular instance, the rain blew off course about a mile before it was due to start. So we got let off the hook but due to his experience, Lakeside's track curator (Gerald Richter) made exactly the right call.

 

And that is the next point - the natural elements such as wind and sun. Wind can dry the surface of a track phenomenally quickly, and this again has to be taken into careful consideration.

 

Hopefully, this gives some insight into track prep and the next time we look at our track curators, remember that their job doesn't start and end with them arriving on race day, and simply driving around in a tractor and grading between heats. Without these guys, we wouldn't have Speedway meetings - it's as simple as that. Sometimes, a few may make a wrong call - but let's not shoot them for it.

 

So having flown off at a tangent (apologies), it just isn't possible to cover a track. The material (not just the top layer of shale) needs to breath in order for us to watch good racing on a well-prepared, consistent surface. And if you ask most riders (who generally fully appreciate that all tracks are different) it's a consistent track that they are looking for mostly - in order to perform their job safely and to their best of their ability.

Edited March 17, 2013 by The Voice Of Reason

[wandersome]

So having flown off at a tangent (apologies), it just isn't possible to cover a track. The material (not just the top layer of shale) needs to breath in order for us to watch good racing on a well-prepared, consistent surface.

 

But wouldn't the idea be to leave them off during normal weather, including rain, so the track can be worked as normal but on the day of the meeting be able to cover the track for short periods if it decides to trully lamp it down, say for an hour or two before a meeting. To stop those short sharp pre meeting deluges, that normally put paid to a meeting, from waterlogging the track.

Edited March 17, 2013 by volty

[The Voice Of Reason]

But wouldn't the idea be to leave them off during normal weather, including rain, so the track can be worked as normal but on the day of the meeting be able to cover the track for short periods if it decides to trully lamp it down, say for an hour or two before a meeting. To stop those short sharp pre meeting deluges, that normally put paid to a meeting, from waterlogging the track.

 

Maybe - but remember that the vast majority of track staff work voluntarily; often getting to the track late evening after they've finished work. To get the track fully covered, and subsequently uncovered, in such a short space of time, on either non-race or race day, requires significant manpower and resource that the average Speedway Promoter could just not afford to shell out for; particularly given other financial constraints.

 

In an ideal world, all tracks would have 10-20 blokes on standby to get the track (which are MUCH bigger than they often look from the terraces) covered quickly when rain is due and, as outlined above, IF it actually comes. In the real world, that's simply a pipe dream.

 

I'm not trying to find reasons why it shouldn't be done, or indeed trialled. Believe me, I sincerely hope that a solution can be found.

 

Clearly, nobody likes to have rain-offs. For us supporters/track staff, it's a let down/inconvenience. For promoters, who often have to pay rent on the stadium to a landlord, and wages to riders, etc. irrespective of whether the meeting goes ahead or not, it's an utter financial nightmare.

[jim the whipper]

Just leave the covers off until the track has had enough water , then pull them over , and leave them in place till just before start time , Unlike TVOR would like us all to believe It's not rocket science . How many meetings over the years have been called off and just as the supporters are leaving the sun comes out ? I have left stadiums with the track steaming from the sun drying it .

[The Voice Of Reason]

Jim,

 

I'm not trying to make you believe anything. Believe whatever your want old chap.

 

However, just ask yourself this simple question - IF it was possible, then why don't promoters do it, rather than endure substantial losses through rain-offs?

 

And the point that your response DOESN'T address is WHO EXACTLY is going to pull the covers on and off as you suggest? Don't just say the track curator, as a task such as this needs more than just one guy!

 

I'm not going to get into an argument with you; suffice to say that before I worked as a member of track staff, I would possibly have asked similar questions.

 

[Skodaman]

Wasn't there a big deal made at the AGM that Leicester would be trialling covers this year on behalf of the BSPA. Is that still happening?

 

Mick.

 

I asked Alan before Christmas about this and he said that no one yet knew what system would be trialled.

[wayne b]

I asked Alan before Christmas about this and he said that no one yet knew what system would be trialled.

Hi all.

As i see it , it is not just a matter of putting covers on. Drainage is going to be a big issue at a lot of tracks, the water will run off the covers onto the inside green then like a lot of tracks but not naming any will flood the track

[speedflash]

Yesterday we took 6600 gallons of water out of the drains they were filling as quick as I could empty them.

[jim the whipper]

Jim,

 

I'm not trying to make you believe anything. Believe whatever your want old chap.

 

However, just ask yourself this simple question - IF it was possible, then why don't promoters do it, rather than endure substantial losses through rain-offs?

 

And the point that your response DOESN'T address is WHO EXACTLY is going to pull the covers on and off as you suggest? Don't just say the track curator, as a task such as this needs more than just guy

In the case we are speaking of . A small army of Volunteers , probably the same people who built the place and are there almost every day maintaining it . ask yourself this if it was any other sport with similar requirements would we be having this debate or would the problem have been resolved years ago ?

[Vince]

In the case we are speaking of . A small army of Volunteers , probably the same people who built the place and are there almost every day maintaining it . ask yourself this if it was any other sport with similar requirements would we be having this debate or would the problem have been resolved years ago ?

 

Like Horse racing, Cricket, Football, Tennis for example where events are never postponed because of surface problems caused by the weather despite being far less susceptible!!!

[Hazzman]

Yesterday we took 6600 gallons of water out of the drains they were filling as quick as I could empty them.

 

And it continued to rain on and off on Saturday evening.

[Najjer]

It's a valid question about covering the track.

 

However, let's consider the following.

 

The track is covered throughout the day and, for example, uncovered at 5pm when the rain stops. In this instance, there is just insufficient time to prepare it properly. If racing goes ahead, it will just be a dust bowl, racing will be at a premium and spectators will go home dissatisfied.

 

Having worked at Lakeside, I learnt a few things.

 

Firstly, a track isn't just prepared a few hours before a meeting; nor even just on the day. In Lakeside's case, their track curator starts work on a Tuesday; grading and watering the track in readiness for Friday night. He's continually grading and watering from 6am until evening each and every day. Track covers would clearly make this task impossible.

 

Secondly, the amount of water that you put onto a track IS an exact science. Having worked all afternoon (until 7pm) sweeping the porridge off the track after morning/afternoon rain, just a 5 minute cloudburst has previously waterlogged the track and took it into a point of no return. It's bloody heartbreaking at times (especially at Lakeside where the entire track's fence panels and airbags have been put up and then taken down again for absolutely nothing - this alone takes at least 2 hours at a time).

 

Some tracks are more susceptible to water than others - depending on the base NOT how much shale is on the surface. Some are clay based and others are chalk. It's an art form knowing just how much water to apply; and having to gauge this with ongoing, changeable weather forecasts.

 

A lot of track curators have access to the most reliable updated weather forecasts via the net; a service (forget it's name) that costs money to use BUT gives updates every 15 minutes. I think it was last year (or maybe the year before) when we saw a huge bank of rain clouds heading our way from the Oxford area around 4pm. It was due to hit us at Purfleet around 7pm. However, in the interim, the wind gathered momentum and it was then due to arrive just after 6pm. So, a track curator has to make a decision of how much water to apply, and more importantly, precisely when to apply it. In this particular instance, the rain blew off course about a mile before it was due to start. So we got let off the hook but due to his experience, Lakeside's track curator (Gerald Richter) made exactly the right call.

 

And that is the next point - the natural elements such as wind and sun. Wind can dry the surface of a track phenomenally quickly, and this again has to be taken into careful consideration.

 

Hopefully, this gives some insight into track prep and the next time we look at our track curators, remember that their job doesn't start and end with them arriving on race day, and simply driving around in a tractor and grading between heats. Without these guys, we wouldn't have Speedway meetings - it's as simple as that. Sometimes, a few may make a wrong call - but let's not shoot them for it.

 

So having flown off at a tangent (apologies), it just isn't possible to cover a track. The material (not just the top layer of shale) needs to breath in order for us to watch good racing on a well-prepared, consistent surface. And if you ask most riders (who generally fully appreciate that all tracks are different) it's a consistent track that they are looking for mostly - in order to perform their job safely and to their best of their ability.

 

First of all, thanks for such a detailed reply and well constructed arguement - more than what anyone else has managed when I've asked the question, where their attitude was just to shrug their shoulders brush the issue under the carpet until another day. Rain offs is potentially one of, if not, the very biggest issue for Speedway fans today. How times have we heard someone say "It's not worth chancing it with the way the weather's been."

 

However I'm still far from convinced - I see no reason why the track can't be left uncovered until some point during the day, when obviously the rain is at its most damaging. The issue about the track needing to 'breathe', surely the most sensible solution around this is to create a hinge effect which is attached to the top of the fence in which the covers are always situation and effectively rolls out towards the inside of the track and pegged in such a way that water runs off towards the centre green area.

 

I don't expect this to be 100% effective, as it rains from morning until midnight, you have no chance of getting a meeting on. However for the cost of creating the covers themselves, weighed up against the costs saved in less rain offs for me is a no-brainer.

[ukrossifan]

 

In the case we are speaking of . A small army of Volunteers , probably the same people who built the place and are there almost every day maintaining it . ask yourself this if it was any other sport with similar requirements would we be having this debate or would the problem have been resolved years ago ?

good drainage at Leicester (which most other tracks don't have so have a lot more rain offs) has meant just 1 rain off a season so far, so would YOU spend a few thousand on track covers to maybe save 1 meeting a year when however good the covers the meeting will still be off if its raining at race time as racing will not take place in heavy or steady rain for lack of vision purposes??

I wouldn't

Edited March 18, 2013 by hurricanes

[The Voice Of Reason]

However I'm still far from convinced - I see no reason why the track can't be left uncovered until some point during the day, when obviously the rain is at its most damaging. The issue about the track needing to 'breathe', surely the most sensible solution around this is to create a hinge effect which is attached to the top of the fence in which the covers are always situation and effectively rolls out towards the inside of the track and pegged in such a way that water runs off towards the centre green area.

Decent idea to be honest.

 

However, some further points need to be put into the mix.

 

First and foremost, at many tracks that share facilities with stock cars and/or other motor sports, any retaining devices/covers/other items on the centre green MUST be removed at the end of the meeting. Often, that is at the jurisdiction of the landlord, and also to meet safety criteria set down by other sports. Moreover, if these devices, coupled with the covers, were even allowed to be left on the centre green, then they would be destroyed within a few weeks. You only have to see the damage that Speedway Tracks sustain now where facilities are shared.

 

When Sky were in town at Lakeside for Monday night coverage, we'd often set up as much as we could on a Sunday evening. To watch bangers is a bloody nightmare. When they are smashed to the point of utter destruction and have to be towed off, where do you think they are taken? Yep, the centre green - and they are more often than not dragged across the speedway track to get there. Diffs, gearboxes, exhausts, tyre-less wheels, etc. cause deep ruts in the surface that are a nightmare to grade out. The point I'm getting at is that if anything was left on the centre green, basically it would be destroyed. Forgive me, but the average stock car driver is not usually the sharpest pencil in the box, and basically doesn't give a damn about anything in his way; or so it often appeared at our track.

 

So this brings us to the next problem. If covers were required for a track, it would need at least two flatbed trucks/lorries to transport them/store them on after a meeting. That is major additional expense for the promoter; and probably overlooked by many that simply see the only investment being the actual covers themselves.

 

And now, the human element comes into play. At Lakeside, and other tracks whereby the track has to basically be dismantled, it needs a team of at least 15-20 guys to take down, load and store the fencing, airbags, advertising, spectator barriers, etc. With a full crew, it can usually be accomplished within 90 minutes - 2 hours. Very often, they'd be around a dozen of us (max). Now, if there are additional heavy covers, fixings and two additional flat beds to load, then you can add another hour on (at least). Now let's be honest about this. Just how many volunteers do you think come forward, that are physically very fit, willing & able to work until around 1am voluntarily, in the peeing rain, ending up caked in wet shale and all for the love of their club? Well yes, there are some; but believe me, many that join with every best intention last a fortnight at most.

 

Now admittedly, I am looking at the worst case scenario BUT the purpose of this post is just to outline some of the logistical, financial and manpower constraints that also need to be considered.

 

Again, I truly hope that some long-term solution can be found. That said, I don't think that one size will ever fit all; simply because speedway tracks have vastly different criteria and restrictions to work within.

Edited March 18, 2013 by The Voice Of Reason

[Heedthebaw]

 

Decent idea to be honest.

 

However, some further points need to be put into the mix.

 

First and foremost, at many tracks that share facilities with stock cars and/or other motor sports, any retaining devices/covers/other items on the centre green MUST be removed at the end of the meeting. Often, that is at the jurisdiction of the landlord, and also to meet safety criteria set down by other sports. Moreover, if these devices, coupled with the covers, were even allowed to be left on the centre green, then they would be destroyed within a few weeks. You only have to see the damage that Speedway Tracks sustain now where facilities are shared.

 

When Sky were in town at Lakeside for Monday night coverage, we'd often set up as much as we could on a Sunday evening. To watch bangers is a bloody nightmare. When they are smashed to the point of utter destruction and have to be towed off, where do you think they are taken? Yep, the centre green - and they are more often than not dragged across the speedway track to get there. Diffs, gearboxes, exhausts, tyre-less wheels, etc. cause deep ruts in the surface that are a nightmare to grade out. If anything was left on the centre green, basically it would be destroyed. Forgive me but the average stock car driver is not usually the sharpest pencil in the box, and basically doesn't give a damn about anything in his way; particularly, it often appeared, our track!

 

So this brings us to the next problem. If covers were required for a track, it would need at least two flatbed trucks/lorries to transport them to a storage area after a meeting. That is major additional expense for the promoter; and probably overlooked by many that simply see the only investment being the actual covers themselves.

 

And now, the human element comes into play. At Lakeside, and other tracks whereby the track has to basically be dismantled, it needs a team of at least 15-20 guys to take down, load and store the fencing, airbags, advertising, spectator barriers, etc. With a full crew, it can usually be accomplished within 90 minutes - 2 hours. Very often, they'd be around a dozen of us (max). Now, if there are additional heavy covers, fixings and two additional flat beds to load, then you can add another hour on (at least). Now let's be honest about this. Just how many volunteers do you think come forward, that are physically fit, willing & able to work until around 1am voluntarily, in the peeing rain, ending up caked in wet shale and all for the love of their club? Well yes, there are some; but believe me, many that join with every best intention last a fortnight at most.

 

Now admittedly, I am looking at the worst case scenario BUT the purpose of this post is just to outline some of the logistical, financial and manpower constraints that also need to be considered.

 

Again, I truly hope that some long-term solution can be found. That said, I don't think that one size will ever fit all; simply because speedway tracks have vastly different criteria and restrictions to work within.

The Voice Of Reason. As someone who has been involved in just about every aspect of Speedway over more years than I care to remember, your post above and your previous one are in my opinion two of the best, most honest and most knowledgeable posts I have read on these forums in many a long time !! Well done that Man or Lady

[Najjer]

good drainage at Leicester (which most other tracks don't have so have a lot more rain offs) has meant just 1 rain off a season so far, so would YOU spend a few thousand on track covers to maybe save 1 meeting a year when however good the covers the meeting will still be off if its raining at race time as racing will not take place in heavy or steady rain for lack of vision purposes??

I wouldn't

 

A few thousand? Jesus christ, just a slight exaggeration!

 

Even if you're heavily inflated figure is correct, haven't many promotors been quoted previously as saying a rain off results in losing X amount of thousands?

 

Decent idea to be honest.

 

However, some further points need to be put into the mix.

 

First and foremost, at many tracks that share facilities with stock cars and/or other motor sports, any retaining devices/covers/other items on the centre green MUST be removed at the end of the meeting. Often, that is at the jurisdiction of the landlord, and also to meet safety criteria set down by other sports. Moreover, if these devices, coupled with the covers, were even allowed to be left on the centre green, then they would be destroyed within a few weeks. You only have to see the damage that Speedway Tracks sustain now where facilities are shared.

 

When Sky were in town at Lakeside for Monday night coverage, we'd often set up as much as we could on a Sunday evening. To watch bangers is a bloody nightmare. When they are smashed to the point of utter destruction and have to be towed off, where do you think they are taken? Yep, the centre green - and they are more often than not dragged across the speedway track to get there. Diffs, gearboxes, exhausts, tyre-less wheels, etc. cause deep ruts in the surface that are a nightmare to grade out. The point I'm getting at is that if anything was left on the centre green, basically it would be destroyed. Forgive me, but the average stock car driver is not usually the sharpest pencil in the box, and basically doesn't give a damn about anything in his way; or so it often appeared at our track.

 

So this brings us to the next problem. If covers were required for a track, it would need at least two flatbed trucks/lorries to transport them/store them on after a meeting. That is major additional expense for the promoter; and probably overlooked by many that simply see the only investment being the actual covers themselves.

 

And now, the human element comes into play. At Lakeside, and other tracks whereby the track has to basically be dismantled, it needs a team of at least 15-20 guys to take down, load and store the fencing, airbags, advertising, spectator barriers, etc. With a full crew, it can usually be accomplished within 90 minutes - 2 hours. Very often, they'd be around a dozen of us (max). Now, if there are additional heavy covers, fixings and two additional flat beds to load, then you can add another hour on (at least). Now let's be honest about this. Just how many volunteers do you think come forward, that are physically very fit, willing & able to work until around 1am voluntarily, in the peeing rain, ending up caked in wet shale and all for the love of their club? Well yes, there are some; but believe me, many that join with every best intention last a fortnight at most.

 

Now admittedly, I am looking at the worst case scenario BUT the purpose of this post is just to outline some of the logistical, financial and manpower constraints that also need to be considered.

 

Again, I truly hope that some long-term solution can be found. That said, I don't think that one size will ever fit all; simply because speedway tracks have vastly different criteria and restrictions to work within.

 

Whilst I once again appreciate your well constructed post and a very good arguement for tracks such as perhaps Lakeside and any others in that same boat, how many other tracks are there in the UK that has to have their fence put up and taken down after a meeting? I wasn't even aware Lakeside did to be honest, but there certainly can't be many others.

 

There is no reason why a design can't be put together for this concept to be fixed to the top (or slightly behind) the fence on a permanent basis - so what's the excuse for all the other tracks, especially the stand alone tracks?

[mdmc82]

Shame there isnt time before the start of the season for this to be rearranged so teams could get some track time