Papryk Ash Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Hello everybody I am writing to let you know about a speedway card game called MCS (Moto-Craze Speedway) that we are about to release for Polish and (hopefully) English markets. The game consists of 110 cards and is a fast-paced simulation that allows 2 or 4 players play a full-fledged speedway meeting within just 40 minutes. It's been designed by a long-time speedway fan, thus contains all elements of speedway races (i.e. gating, charging, engine failures, falls). There is a low level of randomness (no dice involved - the game is more concerned with planning your strategy and making decisions) and high replay value. The game set-up looks more or less like that. http://www.mcsgra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MCS-overall-view.jpg Why am I writing all this? Well, we have already contacted a number of British club shops offering them the game, those which replied, however, are aprrehensive about how well the game would sell in the UK. We realize this kind of product is something new and understand their fears, our tests, however, showed the game to be a huge hit among testers (speedway fans mostly). That is why, we were wondering if you could offer us some ideas how to get into British market (perhaps you know some retailers that might be interested in such product or run your own initiatives that could promote it). We would be grateful for any hints. Should you have any questions about the game, I would gladly answer them - provided it does not break any rules of this place (we are not here to advertise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 What is the likely retail price in UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papryk Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Our recommended retail price is 18 GBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Crew Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Our recommended retail price is 18 GBP. Are you Jeff Scott? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Too expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 You'll never sell a card game at £18. The nearest comparison to what you are describing is "Top Trumps". These sell at around £4 or £5. I would say £5 is the price you need to be near. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourentee Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Without any details of how the game plays, it's hard to assess. I'm assuming it to be a light strategy/hand management mechanic, so I don't think the Top Trumps comparison is really valid. Production values look good. I think the major problem will be falling between two markets. Board/card players would certainly part with £18 for the right game (it's not a cheap market) but are hardly likely to be attracted by a speedway theme. Speedway fans, I suspect, will just think the price is too high. MCS, is it possible to give a brief rundown on how it works? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papryk Ash Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 The nearest comparison to what you are describing is "Top Trumps". These sell at around £4 or £5. I believe that the nearest comparison to our game is "Arcana" made by the same manufacturer with exactly the same components (box, rule booklet, cards). , you can see what Arcana looks and plays like. It was initially sold at 25 euros - since it is out of stock now and there are only remains left, it dropped to 22. You can see it being sold here.I believe your assessment results from the fact that we are talking about two completely different kinds of games. I do not want to disparage "Top Trumps" - instead I will invite you to have a look at the general description of how MCS plays. You'll never sell a card game at £18. We did. Within the first week of pre-order we sold 100 copies. We encourage you to have a closer look at MCS as we believe it to be a game which would greatly appeal to speedway fans. I assure you it is not a one-time experience. The replay value is immense - you can easily play entire seasons and still want more (as we did). And just imagine throwing actual riders into the mix - of course you can do it on your own, although we are already discussing terms with clubs from the Polish Ekstraliga to replace the default in-game rider cards with actual riders. @Fourentee You hit the nail on the head with almost everything. It IS light strategy/hand management mechanics and the comparison to Top Trumps is indeed invalid. You are also right about the problem with falling between two markets - the prices are nothing out of ordinary for board/card players, but speedway fans find them high. When we started promoting the idea of the game about two years ago, Polish fans reacted in similar fashion to the initial replies I got here. They claimed that for the game to sell for 18 pounds, it would certainly have to contain some electronic gimmicks. Only after we introduced them to the market of the "new wave" of board/card games, did they realized what we are offering. I hope we will get opportunity to do the same in Britain. Ask me anything. I can describe the gameplay in the slightest details P.S. In case you have some new questions I will not be able to answer them until tomorrow as I am a new user limited to only 3 posts per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I still don't get it. Apart from playing cards (like Top Trumps), what else do I get for £18? Is there a board and playing pieces (like monopoly)? Are there model bikes? An interactive DVD? What else is there apart from the cards? If it's just a set of playing cards, I stand my my original comment that I can't see how it can justify a price much above £5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourentee Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) I still don't get it. Apart from playing cards (like Top Trumps), what else do I get for £18? In pure economic terms, I suppose the answer to that would be the cost involved in research and development. For a regular games player (and I'm assuming you wouldn't count yourself in that group) it's the concept and the gameplay. My personal favourite card games -- Battleline, Condottiere, Red November, Caesar and Cleopatra -- are all in the £15-20 group. There's certainly not much to them in terms of equipment, but they're the ones with depth of gameplay that draws me back again and again. I'd cheerfully part with the £18 if MCS proves to be in their league, though I accept that in a speedway forum I would be in the minority. Edit: As MCS said that Arcana (not a game with which I'm familiar) is produced by the same manufacturer, I followed the link. The manufacturer turns out to be Fantasy Flight Games, whose reputation is first-rate; they are particularly strong in the card game area. For what it's worth, two of the four favourite games I listed are from their stable. Edited March 12, 2013 by Fourentee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) In pure economic terms, I suppose the answer to that would be the cost involved in research and development. For a regular games player (and I'm assuming you wouldn't count yourself in that group) it's the concept and the gameplay. My personal favourite card games -- Battleline, Condottiere, Red November, Caesar and Cleopatra -- are all in the £15-20 group. There's certainly not much to them in terms of equipment, but they're the ones with depth of gameplay that draws me back again and again. I'd cheerfully part with the £18 if MCS proves to be in their league, though I accept that in a speedway forum I would be in the minority. Absolutely spot on Fourentee (I didn't realise you were a gamer). This game has me very intrigued and as you say the price seems the going rate for one of this type. Top Trumps is essentially a childrens game that is pretty much entirely luck based. As Fourentee says, this style of game has layers of strategy and depth that give it a high replayability value, which is essentially where you get the value of your purchase from. Its very very far removed from 'Top Trumps'. The game looks professionally presented, which I was surprised about and the mechanics look intriguing. If they work well and offer a decent strategy, I'd consider £18 a worthy investment for sure. The potential to further customise the game with individual rider cards is something that could greatly enhance the game also. Edited March 12, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I regularly play and purchase card based games such as this. Munchkin, Red Shirts, Chez Geek etc are all similarly priced to this product. You're paying for the playability and replay value, the concept, the artwork and so on. In gaming terms £18 is at the higher end; but not extortionate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Correct Bryce, Even then its not totally at the higher end, game such as Dominion can retail quite a bit higher, upwards of £30 upon release in many places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Good cheap advert for them anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 That game "Arcana" you mentioned @ 20 odd quid. I would suggest there's a very good reason why it's not available any more. Could it be hat no one bought it cause it was too expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 That game "Arcana" you mentioned @ 20 odd quid. I would suggest there's a very good reason why it's not available any more. Could it be that no one bought it cause it was too expensive? Exactly. Not enough people would buy. Maybe there is a small nerd market that would pay £18 for what amounts to nothing more than 100 printed cigarette cards, but it's a very small nerd market. Some speedway folk moan at paying £2 for a 16 page matchday programme. They're not going to pay £18 for 100 cigarette cards. They'd be better uploading the cards to the internet and charging 50p for people to print them off themselves and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Exactly. Not enough people would buy. Maybe there is a small nerd market that would pay £18 for what amounts to nothing more than 100 printed cigarette cards, but it's a very small nerd market. Some speedway folk moan at paying £2 for a 16 page matchday programme. They're not going to pay £18 for 100 cigarette cards. They'd be better uploading the cards to the internet and charging 50p for people to print them off themselves and use. Why post on something you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about? As for basing your analogy on Arcana.. its 'out of stock', which means all the copies have been sold from that supplier. Its actually still in stock with many retailers and has shifted a vast number of copies worldwide, including the UK selling at anything between £22.99 and £27.99. You are right though, speedway fans, as demonstrated by your good self and a couple of others are not the best target audience.. they're the kind of folk who are happy to pay £30 for a product that has some fancy pieces, an interactive dvd and a colorful board and probably some sort of celebrity tie-in.. play it twice at christmas and it never be used again (and not likely to be used as it's the same each time..) Personally, I'd rather spend £18 on a game that can provide hours of entertainment and be replayed for years to come as many games of this nature can be. Whether the mechanics of this game will allow that to be the case remains to be seen, but first impressions look favourable. The UK is also one of the worst markets for this kind of game. Stores over here focus primarily on the dumbed down/celebrity type game as mentioned above which are all heavily overpriced and offer zero in terms of playability. Mainland Europe and the US its a completely different scenario. So in essence, yes its going to be a difficult sell, simply due to a lack of knowledge in the UK of the product on offer. It also astounds me how we complain and moan that the sport doesn't get exposure and yet when we get new products available the first thing some folk want to do is attack it and stamp it out as quickly as they can.. be it a new magazine, or a board game of this nature. Its a game, its about speedway, I'd be willing to give it a chance and learn more about it even if I didn't already know how such games work. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Why post on something you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about? Why are you so aggressive? I've read his idea the same as you have. If his information gives me "absolutely no idea" then it's the same information that you're getting orgasmic about when you also have absolutely no idea either. The guy asked for opinions on whether he'd be able to sell his Top Trumps style Speedway cigarette card game to Speedway fans. Being a Speedway fan, I'm quite qualified to give an opinion. And my opinion is that someone would have to be barking mad to buy 100 bits of printed card for £18. But maybe you'd buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Why are you so aggressive? I've read his idea the same as you have. If his information gives me "absolutely no idea" then it's the same information that you're getting orgasmic about when you also have absolutely no idea either. The guy asked for opinions on whether he'd be able to sell his Top Trumps style Speedway cigarette card game to Speedway fans. Being a Speedway fan, I'm quite qualified to give an opinion. And my opinion is that someone would have to be barking mad to buy 100 bits of printed card for £18. But maybe you'd buy it. I'm not being aggressive. Simply asking why you are acting the fool? If you had 'read' what he has posted you would know it is not a 'Top Trumps style' speedway game. That is something you have made up. Not an opinion, a made up theory of your own that others have explained to you is false, yet you continue to peddle it. You tried to justify your claims by jumping on another game he mentioned (Arcana) and were shown to be incorrect again in your obervations. Now you resort to someone being barking mad to buy 100 bits of printed card. One has to wonder if you have ever bought a dvd/cd? Barking mad to spend such money on a cheap piece of plastic. See how foolish you sound now? Probably not... If you wish to offer an opinion, that's all well and good. However, you've peddled the same tripe about Top Trumps now on numerous posts despite being informed by others that there is no correlation between the two. Give up on the trolling. Edited March 12, 2013 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obrien48 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Why are you so aggressive? I've read his idea the same as you have. If his information gives me "absolutely no idea" then it's the same information that you're getting orgasmic about when you also have absolutely no idea either. The guy asked for opinions on whether he'd be able to sell his Top Trumps style Speedway cigarette card game to Speedway fans. Being a Speedway fan, I'm quite qualified to give an opinion. And my opinion is that someone would have to be barking mad to buy 100 bits of printed card for £18. But maybe you'd buy it. To be fair you're way off the mark, MCS approached me to stock the game in Speedwaystore, the game is far more than 'top trumps' and looks like it's had a lot of time spent on it. You have the right to an opinion of course but there's no need to belittle the product. Edited March 12, 2013 by obrien48 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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