SCB Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 13, 14, 15, 16, 18. Whatever you do, the racing will be the same, you just see 13, 14, 15, 16, 18 heats each. And if I'm honest, I don't see the point of a second half. It's 4 pointless, meaningless heats. I only like individuals that mean something (GP, ELRC, PLRC) so taking away actual races that means something for some pointless races. I want to watch real teams and individuals that mean something, not made up teams and individuals that nobody will remember in a months time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 13, 14, 15, 16, 18. Whatever you do, the racing will be the same, you just see 13, 14, 15, 16, 18 heats each. And if I'm honest, I don't see the point of a second half. It's 4 pointless, meaningless heats. I only like individuals that mean something (GP, ELRC, PLRC) so taking away actual races that means something for some pointless races. I want to watch real teams and individuals that mean something, not made up teams and individuals that nobody will remember in a months time. Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to organise some kind of National Second Half Competition then. Make it worthwhile to ride in - and off we go. 13 Heats plus Second Half. Problem solved. Q.E.D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to organise some kind of National Second Half Competition then. Make it worthwhile to ride in - and off we go. 13 Heats plus Second Half. Problem solved. Q.E.D. Fair point if it could be made to work, make the second half the ELRC. It might actually be a decent idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Surely it is not beyond the whit of man to organise some kind of National Second Half Competition then. Make it worthwhile to ride in - and off we go. 13 Heats plus Second Half. Problem solved. Q.E.D. I already mentioned this idea, earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I already mentioned this idea, earlier. Did you? - I never saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 13 Heats every time for me. But then again - I'm an 'old git' and can remember the good times. Well that makes two of us then so your not alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmuffe Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I think top riders meet each other too much in a league match. In my day, you used to have to get there for the start of the match because quite often the likes of the two number ones only met once - in the first race. The nominated heat, I feel, has taken the gloss away from top riders meeting one another... it's a bit like having fish and chips more than once or twice a week. Something special in time loses its appeal when it become less special. Less is more, so they say. dont start me on fish and chips..........this is a serious thread Why did the 13 heat formula get binned anyway ? Because that format had a tired look about it at the time . The second halves started with a reserves race , which featured the two number sevens from both sides and two track juniors . Then you had three rider of the night heats wich the three winners plus the fastest runner up made the final . You had another reserves race before the final . If we had a southern based team up at Glasgow , they were generally keen to get on the road and few tried very hard in the rider of the night heats . You normally ended up with mainly home riders in the final . Sometimes some away riders didn't even bother hanging around for the 2nd half , which turned the whole excercise into a farce . We tried 15 , 16 and 18 heat formats since then , but i think what we have now probably works best . didnt it get binned because the riders werent interested or off somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Speedways greatest and biggest problem is it's always looking backwards. Never out looking in and forwards, which is why is considered a naff, boring sport by old fans and outsiders. It needs a bit more than tingering with the race format to bring back the interest i'm affraid. Some new ideas that send out a breath of fresh air that can be built upon is what is needed. Make it cheaper for riders to participate to help cut admission might be a start, without making the product look inferior. Edited March 10, 2013 by Deano 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Why did the 13 heat formula get binned anyway ? Because that format had a tired look about it at the time . Probably more because promoters saw a way of cutting costs by ditching the second-half and introducing a juniors league, only to subsequently ditch the juniors league. The 'traditional second-half' probably had got tired, but the races could have been linked into BLRC/NLRC qualification or something meaningful to increase the interest of both riders and fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I much prefer 15 heats. Especially the nominated heat idea. If a meeting's been decided prior it still gives something to look forward too. And my memory of second halves was the frequent disrespect shown by riders - uncompetitive riding, testing engines, finishing last in their first heat so they could leave and get to the pub before it closed, or just plain leaving the stadium due to a prior appointment (to get to the pub before it closed). Nowadays it would be leaving to get a flight to Poland. For £16 I want 15 competitive races, not 13. Second halves - no thank you. Well you did question my age recently (52 btw...) - but I clearly AM hold enough to remember second halves in their pomp and you can't be, as I can assure you the second halves of the 1970s were NOTHING like you describe. Riders took them every bit as seriously as the main meeting. Stand-outs in my mind were the incredible race between the late Tommy Jansson and Gordon Kennett when Wimbledon visited White City for the opening meeting at Wood Lane in '76. Tommy won an absolute classic race. And the year before on the eve of a World Final which was to see Tiger beat Mauger in a rostrum place run off, when John Louis beat the great Kiwi, then of Exeter to bring the house down in a second half final at Foxhall Heath. The fact I remeber these great races and they were second half finals says it all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Same old story, people only remember the good second half races not the majority which were meaningless to the riders and fans. It was well known (even to me as a kid) that the money for the second half was often agreed to be shared before the racing started so that nobody had to take any chances. Riders would still race, sometimes hard, but mostly their earnings didn't depend on results. How anybody thinks current crowd levels can support paying riders for several more races when the current format is losing money the majority of the time I have no idea. Introduce a less costly second half of meaningful junior meetings and half the crowd leave anyway and it won't be long before people are on here complaining about paying to watch 'wobblers' (although they are nothing of the sort). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lee Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Why the obsession with 15 or 13 heats? How about 18? I seem to remember 8-man teams and 18 heats for a few seasons in the nineties - might have been earlier (or later!), memory fades with age..... More heats for your money and no second rate second halves. I believe 18 heats could also work with 6 man teams, which might also alleviate the shortage of quality riders. Edited March 11, 2013 by Rob Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike.Butler Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 it was great watching Eastbourne's kids of the 70's take on the visiting 2nd strings and beating them (not to mention the occasional heat leader). I even gave Mick Pither 'Man-of-the-Meeting' once for his after-the-interval efforts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Eastbourne did indeed stand-out as having exceptionally good 'second halves'. I remember my first visit to Arlington in 1973 had a second half event, The Speedway Mail Trophy with invited riders from other clubs... Also the next season in one second half, former Eagle and by then a Div I rider, Gordon Kennett came and rode match races. He had a dead heat with Paul Gachet and also rode against mult-World Finalist Mike Broadbank(s)! This criticism of looking back is a strange one. Are you saying that there's NOTHING from Speedway's now 85 year history in the UK worth re-visiting as an idea? Even though over most of those 85 years those previous ideas were bringing in far bigger crowds than the sport gets today..?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conkers in Gravy Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 As far as I can remember there was always a mass exodus at the end of heat 13 with only the diehards left to watch the second half. I liked that format of meeting, but most folk didn't, so it's a no-go. My biggest problem with speedway is there is just not enough racing. I went to a meeting last year for the first time since 2004 (I live 320 miles and two ferry journeys from my nearest track), I paid £14, stood on home-made wooden terraces, watched 15, 50-second, Premier League heats and three passing manoeuvres spread over an hour and three-quarters before being told that was that. A couple of juniors came out for some practice laps as I went to the car park feeling very short-changed. I'm not in a hurry to go back - at least not to that particular track. I don't like to criticise riders who risk their personal safety for our entertainment, but they and the promoters need to give a bit more if there is to be any upturn in the sports' fortunes. Four races per man is not good value. It's not asking too much for them to come out again for a second half as well as the 15-heat meeting, just as it should be possible to run 20 heats in a couple of hours most of the time. I've often wondered why the league match (the main event, after all) is on first with junior races (if provided) added afterwards. Could a meeting not start 15 minutes earlier with a couple of junior races with another in the interval? Maybe the best of the lads could line-up against the reserves after the league match? That way there would be more value for the diehard fan, while giving the less committed a sense that there is always something going on rather than a lot of hanging around listening to Abba's greatest hits. I'm just thinking out loud here and there are probably very good reasons why I'm wrong - I daresay I'll soon be told why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promor Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 As far as I can remember there was always a mass exodus at the end of heat 13 with only the diehards left to watch the second half. I totally agree, but it did make it easier to get out the car park at the end of the night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 As an oldie, I liked the 13 heats and the second half's. But speedway is different now. Where in the past the 13 heat formula worked was because the riders had pride and wanted to win every race. Sure they divided the spoils, but they all wanted to win. We talk about the No1's only meeting each once, but then each team had more better riders. There were 3 heat leaders and most were seasoned internationals. We at Lynn Betts at 1, Simmo at 3, Cole at 5 plus Phil Crump as a second string. Did it matter if Bettsy only rode against the other No 1 once, no cause it didn't. The teams were far stronger then and that's the reason it worked. Now its a different ball game. I've got no problems with the 15 heat format, my gripe is, I would like to see more races for my money and for the night to last longer. I don't like going home early....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 If we had a 13 heat formula again, we wouldn't be hearing so much of there being far more top riders around back then.. as the top riders would meet far less, and their averages would all rise as a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Having seen the 13 heat format for the first time last season at Foxhall when it was used for John Berry's meeting i have to say i enjoyed alot more than the current 15 heats. However was that down to the number of races or that no fixed gates & a proper tac sub rule ment that the team manager had to manage & tatics came in to play alot more. For what its worth i think that the bottom 2 riders in the averages should always ride at 6&7 but the top five can ride in whatever postion the team manager thinks will work best for his team. Take last season at Ipswich you had Leigh riding at number 1 clearly not emjoying it if the managers could manage he could have been moved to any other position. So bring back a proper tac sub rule do away with fixed gate positions & allow thw team managers the freedom to put there top 5 in any order they like. As for the heat format i guess we are stuck with 15 but i always liked the 16 heat NL format form 89/90 with a proper junior league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Same old story, people only remember the good second half races not the majority which were meaningless to the riders and fans. It was well known (even to me as a kid) that the money for the second half was often agreed to be shared before the racing started so that nobody had to take any chances. Riders would still race, sometimes hard, but mostly their earnings didn't depend on results. So true! How often in seeing halves would you see second strings beating the maximum man from the league meeting. One other point on second halves. In the main these were pretty poor shows. Do you really want the public going home on a downer? Best in show business for them to leave wanting more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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